Some Orgers often underrate Prince and The Revolution
as a live unit.
The fact that is very overlooked is that the same group of people totally changed the way they play in just one year
In the 1985 The Revolution was still Cold electro funk band but
just one year latter they
changed their sound
and started to sound very
organic like a Soul Revue band.
Prince and his band added much
more complexity to the sound.
Jazzy ending on the Controversy
or Do Me Baby intro are just some of the examples.
It showcased Bobby Z as a drummer also.
Prince had more skilled musicians latter but
almost nobody had the ability to grow and adapt like the Revolution

thebanishedone said:

Agree with all of this!

thebanishedone said:

Thebanishedone, may God bless you for this thread!!! Seriously...I totally agree, just look at the Purple Rain tour, and then take a look at the "America" video the fall of 85",the change in sound and look was incredible in less than 6 months after the PR tour...we want even talk about 1986! Prince had the BEST combination of musicians during this time period! The Parade tour was incrdeible, because Prince and the Revolution showed that they could do James Brown funk and then some...u know, I really didn"t care for "Life be so nice" until I watched the Parade tour on youtube a few years back a saw how the Revolution broke that song all the way down slowed it to a funky groove! Outside of The Musicology tour 04", and The Rock and Roll music Hall of Fame performance, and the Super Bowl 07", Prince was at his best during the 85-86 time period, musically that is...now from a business perspective? That's another thread altogether. :>)

thanx AAron 6

Absolutely!
It is the difference between talented session musicians going through the motions for a paycheck, to raw talented youngsters giving it their all in the throes of passion.
Wendy, Lisa, Matt, Prince and the gang were all in their twenties at their peak,.. with youth, talent, hunger, energy, passion and naivete in a combination that you will be lucky to get just once in your life. We are all lucky for this, absolutely awesome musical cocktail.
[Edited 2/10/10 18:57pm]

When it comes to posts like this, all I really know is that I love all of the albums. I respect all of the musicians that are behind the Songs.

I always felt this evolution was the result of letting the band play to its strengths. The Purple Rain era Revolution was a band trying to emulate the raw funk/rock of the Cymone/Dickerson band (take a re-listen to "Head" from any of the '81 shows to see where this incarnation cooked). Once the Revolution stepped into the Psychedelic Fusion/Soul vibe, I think they really found their sweet spot.

you people think to narrow, you need to look at the larger picture. when i group or artist become wildly popular the record companies produce copies. that is why he came pout with the radically different Around the world in a Day. most everyone that hopped on the band wagon because of the pop fame of purple rain jumped off. the revolution was a good band but not his best. like miles davis, james brown and george clinton he knows how to surround himself with goods support, with a change in bands there is an evolution of music. wendy and lisa are not his only jazz influence his father was a jazz musician.

People haven't overlooked that era. That style change is the reason most average people remember very little about him after "Purple Rain" except for "Kiss" and a hit or two here and there throughout the years.

madclown said:

the Revolution all around was his best, he had the best chemistry, no band after that was Prince able to pull the energy for song writing and stretching out in directions he has. And remember, the band we know to be the Revolution for the majority of the members where there since his first album touring:Bobby Z Matt Fink(For U)/Lisa Coleman Brown Mark(Dirty Mind) Wendy was in the camp and friends since the Dirty Mind period(1999/PR) his longest best band.

added members: Eric Leeds came around during the Purple Rain era and performed on tour.

Even most of the people who became the SOTT band were either proteges:Sheila E w/Levi Seacer jr & Boni Boyer. Dr Fink since the FOr U era, Mico Weaver Purple Rain era sessions musician + Sheila E. band member/Family/Revolution member

The music output was off the chain from Dirty Mind-Parade/Dream Factory, I love the SOTT band(live) but even they did't have the live layers you got from the Revolution, nor did they have the song writing synergy. SOTT mostly was music from the Revolution.

vainandy said:

I'll disagree, a lot of RnB music pulled a lot of the sounds we hear on ATWIAD & Parade, use of strings and finger symbols sparse guitar usage,

People may not always know where the sounds come from but a lot of other artists who are fans of Prince know.

And again SOTT was mostly music from the Dream Factory

#1:1986:the collaborative ethos carried over to rehearsal sessions, which were often dominated by sweaty jams. Mark Brown recalls one improvisation lasting so long that he made a sandwich and snacked on it even as he kept thwacking away at his instrument to keep the groove going. No one could seem to get enough of playing. "I think that my greatest memories of my musical career are of rehearsals that were spectacular, not shows," Rivkin recalled. "It was an exciting, exciting time."

#2 Power Fantastic was recorded mid March 1985
a song based on a composition by Lisa Coleman called "Carousel"
according to engineer Susan Rogers
Prince sang in a corner of the room
It was some of the most intimate experience of her career:
She felt at the very center of artistic creation
Eric Leed, who played a lilting flute solo
walked out of the studio feeling goose bumps
"That's one of the greatest things we ever did," he remembered

Susan Rogers noted this song was "Nailed in one take"


#3 What are some of your favorite memories with the Revolution, including the time you spent together off stage?

Dr Fink: Some of the funniest moments we had were at rehearsal. During some breaks we would joke around and make up skits and silly songs. Lisa is the perfect Olive Oyl to my Popeye. While we were on tour we would all go out to dinner together, take in an occasional movie or go to after show parties. By the way, Prince never cooked and served us pancakes after playing basketball with him.

Clearly, the band that could adapt to any style the most was his mid 90's NPG. Funk, Rock, R'n'B, Ballads, Hip Hop, .. you name it! And they delivered all of this with uncomparable professionalism and energy, while still remaining in their unique sound.

Dave1992 said:

the band from Controvery - Parade did the same
and I believed they played the 'sound' more clearly, when Prince's sound was still being developed and become 'Purple Music'
You hear it strongly between 1982-1984 those impromptu shows sometimes with the Time and birthday shows
they played everything except for Hip Hop(which should have been left to Run DMC & the Fat Boyz)
[Edited 2/11/10 7:37am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

1. The band from Controversy to Parade is NOT the same band.
2. It is a bit of a contradiction to say that they "did the same" if they didn't play hip hop/rap. The NPG could and did.
[Edited 2/11/10 7:44am]

skywalker said:

1.)Dude I know they are not completely the same band, but for the most part substituting Dez with Wendy they are the same band:Bobby Z Lisa Fink & Brown Mark
2.) not a contraditiction: Hip Hop for the most part wasn't a defined music style in the early 80's. I said they played everything but Hip Hop, which became more prominate in the latest of the 80's into the 90's.
A lot of hip hop was still borrowed heavily from other musicians. Yet Prince did used a generic rap in songs.
Again the music from his band and proteges was very definatively "Purple Music" and they played it live very well.

There is no denying the fact that The Revolution was a marvellous band, combining different genres and defining his style in the early to mid 80s - what we refer to as "Purple Music".

But the revolution was not as "tight" as the NPG at all those genres. To me, the sound of The Revolution was rather floating around, or like some water drops coming from all directions in all colours and covering a bit of ground everwhere, whereas the NPG was a massive waterfall, floating the air with energy and power; - anytime, no matter what the song was and what sound the aimed for.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Spot on. While there may have been more technically adept players to make up his future bands, this particular group of players gelled in a really magical fashion. The music, IMO, was much better for it as a result.
[Edited 2/11/10 8:28am]

Dave1992 said:

A couple of things 2 think about with the 1979-1986 years vs the mid 90s-2000
Technology
It does make a difference from mics, instruments, speakers, sound systems, venue
I've heard 2 many of those early shows and not only that the music sounded like tthe album which made it sound like 'prince' music.

I have yet to hear a live show that can touch either the 1st Ave pre 1999 show w/the Time or the 1st Ave pre Purple Rain shows:4 the album or the Birthday show*** this show is tighter than any I heard.

OldFriends4Sale said:

This has nothing to do with technology as nearly all the ex Revolution members still release music from time to time and you can hear that they (especially Wendy And Lisa) have a different approach and simply aren't able to put as much energy into their music as, let's say, Mr Hayes, Sonny T or Michael B, although they seem to try very hard quite often (their latest "single" + video, for example).

The shows you mentioned are nearly untouchable because of their style and feeling, their happening just at the edge of the rising mountain of Prince and because the delivery was just absolutely sublime. Still, those shows were anything but loose - many songs sounded just the same as on the album, which makes me question The Revolution's ability to jam on-stage, too.


All in all, quality-wise and technically, I doubt that The Revolution were really over-the-top as much as people tend to think. The thing is, Prince knew how to use them correctly. For what they did on-stage and in the studio they were the perfect musicians. For the stuff that the mid 90s NPG could do they weren't and that's exactly why they never did it.
Lisa is a crazy, creative keyboarder, who comes up with weird chord changes all the time, but she is not as quick as a Tommy Barbarella, or even Fink or Neto, for that matter. Wendy is funky and comes up with some funky licks, but she is not quick nor very clean.

I'm not saying that they were bad because of that. They were even more interesting, because that is what defined their sound and style back then.


But when it is about a band, consisting of professional individuals, nothing can touch the NPG.

Dave1992 said:

which NPG grouping do u prefer?

OldFriends4Sale said:

1994 - Michael B, Sonny T, Tommy Barbarella, M Hayes (,Levi Seacer Jr.). Hell, even Mayte was great on-stage.

"The songs we did with Wendy & Lisa, included some of the most wonderful stuff we ever did." Eric Leeds

OP,

I dont agree with every line of you, but you sure have a point there. I agree something changed in his sound during that period.

I always get very annoyed with people who say: Around the World in a day was such a big change from Purple Rain and the music before it. Because it simply WASN'T.
ATWIAD is 'just' a continuation of the Minneapolis sound, but with new types of melodies and a richer kind of instrumentation.
It isnt the sharp sonical watershed some people make it out to be.

On Parade he mostly abandoned his trademark linn-drum sound (apart from Anotherlover.. which IMO sounds a bit out of place on the album) and those cold / campy sounding synths, but he still uses an 'effect' on the drums, to offer some kind of continuation probably, but the rest of the music sounds much more 'freewheeling', organic and based on studio 'jams'.

I think thats the result of a natural artistic development: he did perfectionize the original Minneapolis sound with the Purple Rain album, he tried to 'colour it up' a bit with the ATWIAD-album, but was that real progress?

I think the (artistic and commercial) succes of Purple Rain did make Prince 'open up' a bit, and made him give his bandmembers (especially Wendy and Lisa) and newcomers like Eric Leeds more influence on the artistic process.
When you listen to the Parade album, you can hear he is aiming for a more 'loose' approach, like he is confident enough to say: why should i dictate the sound of my music all by myself? and why should i should i conform myself to a certain 'blueprint'?

Instead of him constantly (and mostly by himself) working on and 'bettering' a certain type of sound (like he did seem to do from Dirty Mind unto Purple Rain), the approach in 1985 seemed to change a lot: lets jam with my bandmembers, be open for their input, and dont pin myself down for a certain type of sound.

Its at that moment he artistically peaked IMO.

OldFriends4Sale said:

The song writing process with W&L was something that is missed sometimes with the new projects that P has worked on. They are missed (sometimes).

I personally think people are overrating the input / qualities of Wendy and Lisa.

Yes, i think his music did benefit from the input of others bandmembers since 1985, but was it the result of wendy and lisa's input? or in the first place the fact that Prince did open up to his side-musicians?.

I own one Wendy and Lisa CD, Eroica, and while they are technically gifted, decent musicians, they seem to lack characture and personality: their music and vocal delivery doesnt really touch me, and their voices are rather generic.

They also butchered a CD from one of my favourite singer-songwriters, Neil Finn. Their input might be sophisticated, but very shallow in the end.

Yes, i agree, Princes music did benefit from opening up to his bandmembers in 1985, but Wendy and Lisa are no ´saints´ IMO.

I think many of you are missing the point, it was the combination of musicians and the time period that made the music so great, and dare I say magical...I would never give W&L all the credit, it was everbody from Dez (Pre Purple Rain) to Eric Leeds and everybody in between that made the 1985-1986 time period so great and interesting. Anybody who can play a note of music on any instrument can appreciate the growth from a musicians stand point from this time period. It wasn't just the released material that was so great it was the fact that for example, that no one knew that a white girl name Wendy could be so Funky during that time period and then turn around years later with Lisa and do the score to "Soul Food" and "Heros" to name a few. My point, it was the combination of musicians, versatility, and just plain O' perfect timing that made the Revolution great during that time period...and the NPG was and is cool, but as a whole, had NOTHING on the band and musicians that came before them...Ladies and Gentlman..."The Revolution"! Aaron6ix

NPG>



If ATWIAD and Parade were any indicator of the musical direction that the revolution(wendy and lisa) were headed in its not suprising that he ditched them shortly after.

minneapolisFunq said:

that had nothing to do with it, and it was Prince's music direction

he just pulled things from various members in his circle, Susannah was probably just as big a part of the creativity
And it wasn't just them, Eric Leeds, Sheila E. the other band members and non band members:Mico Jonathan David Coleman David Z. Jill,
at that time he just had the perfect people even engineers Susan Rogers, Coke
and these people all 'believed' in Prince, they didn't use him as a stepping stone like many following band members did. Nor did any of them say he was never black enough and had intentions on 'shoving black down his throat' ie Tony M.

And remember most of what you hear on SOTT (if u like that album) came from the Revolution years/sessions
[Edited 2/11/10 15:36pm]