I've been a fan of Prince since 1984 and even though there have been a lot of misteps along the way, maybe too many, I can't complain. My real regret is not being able to get an officially re-mastered back catalog as well as more released outtakes and live material.

I think these days, we only see flashes of brilliance instead of long stretches. But considering that P has been doing what he has for so long and that he's been as prolific as he has been, this is natural for most great artists. Live he absolutely kills it always did and always will. In the studio...considering he does much of it himself and won't allow anyone to produce him...not so much. Now don't get me wrong, he is still very talented and the music he makes...much of it is superior to a lot of what is out there. However there is a lot more out there now and a lot of it is better that his music. Maybe better is not the right word, but there is a lot more music out there that feels honest and not forced to be anything other than what it is.

I think that he's a little disenchanted as well. He doesn't know how to get his music out there the way he wants to and it's a challenge for him to not get the sales and radio play that he so very much desires. He seems more preoccupied with that than he does with his music. IMO his last decent offering was 3121 but creatively, I think the Music Club stuff and the Rainbow children were the last brilliant things he did. Simply cause he was free and you can hear it in the music.

I don't think he has really lost his songwriting skills. Sure, he doesn't churn out the classics anymore, but most of the tracks are quite good compositions. One of his biggest problems with the current songwriting mannerisms that he has these days, are the repeated single-line choruses ("4ever", "Feel Good, Feel Better, Feel Wonderful"). Sure, some of the classics had them too, but they worked a whole lot better.

The biggest problem to me seems to be that somewhere around mid-90s he just lost his goddamn sense of taste. The art on the album covers, the lyrics, many of the synth / drum sounds he started using just were either were lazy or just ridiculously tacky. He just doesn't seem to have much of a production ideology anymore - also the best musical ideas on the new albums are those that mimic what he used to do in the 80s.

So, basically after or around "Emancipation" it never was the same again. Although I do personally prefer the 00s albums over the two Prince & The NPG records from the 90s. Those I can hardly even listen to anymore.

LondonStyle said:

Sorry man the 80's is gone....deal with it....and enjoy the now ...
Face the facts prince could produce a 80's CD and you still would not like it...that just how it is man.... [/quote]

Yes they are.....but I still prefer the energy, the uniqueness etc of that creative period.

I still enjoy what he does but not the same way....

I mean emancipation? oh come on I've always seen the 3 discs as follows...

Disc 1 = Look at me, I'm so happy I could burst, ain't I clever?

Disc 2 = Look at me, I'm so in love I come sugar coated!

Disc 3 = Oh yeah - this would be the album I'd release if I could be bothered to finish it off properly.....

Not that I don't like some of it but I don't like all of it - much like everything since.

Most of the songs on Disc 1 on "Emancipation" don't really have "happy" lyrics.
At least half of them are about... loneliness, I guess.

We've all changed, but let's not forget that Prince has changed as well. His focus and motivation are not the same. He's not scrambling to make a name for himself, he's earned it, and maintains it.

We all know that music from a hungry stomach is vastly different from that of a full one.

Why is there so much constant demand from people in this forum for "new Prince music?" Why do you even want more so desperately? What is with this URGE for a new record from him every year? I know that is his former trend, releasing albums annually, but he is not obligated to do that, and is probably tired of it. There are some fantastic artists who only release 10 or less albums during their entire lives. And while Prince has released, what, 40 albums since he started, that's still not enough for some strange reason. I don't get it.

It's really too bad there apparently wasn't a "dark night of the soul", as there was before Lovesexy. Then we'd have 'something' to blame.

Now all we can say is, that 'something' must have simple snapped in him before he started recording Emancipation, making him turn out mostly bland music.
Then when his son died, instead of staying at home and grieving with his wife, he said: "F--k it! I'm going on tour! You just deal with it by yourself, Mayte!" and that attitude/denial gave us New Power Soul and Rave.

Along the way he met Larry G of course, who prepared him for a "dark era of the soul".

It's a sad, sad story.
[Edited 2/13/10 5:29am]

Pentacle said:

so whereas before, he used his music as a way of venting his frustrations/ comning to terms with issues in his life, post emancipation he used it as an escape?

That's an interesting theory. His post 1996 songs certainly don't seem to have the same depth or resonance as once they did. And where once there were meaningful, soulful lyrics, we now get twisted, meaningless gibberish lyrics.

hmmm

Erik

Where did it all go wrong?
Larry Graham.

The first Prince music I received was the Batman soundtrack. I was about 8 y/o.
My prince experience started around the whole nineties music. For me D&P, the symbol, come, emancipation, etc. are classics because thats the first few years of Prince for me. I was way too young to get into Purple Rain and 1999 when they first came out. They are great to me,but this latter music was what I was pumping out my system in elementary and highschool. My problem with Prince's new music is'nt that I think it has less quality,but I think he has went through a phase over the past few years where he is trying to sound too much like artist of the past. I mean nobody else is releasing so much music that is the quality of his. I think his past music you could hear his influences but now he sounds like his influences.I loved Lotus Flower and still listen to it.
Dance 4 Me is a damn tight dance/funk track. I also love parts of Planet Earth especially the title track. Any young kids finding Prince now will probably regard this music as classic to them because its their first experience with his sound. In the end I don't think anything has went wrong. I believe Prince has done what all great artist do which is move ahead of their past work and create something thats meaningful to themselves. Remember his work is coming from his life experience not ours.

meisme said:

Yes, but that's the problem; he isn't experiencing life; never has, except before 'For You'.

And judging from the last, say, 15 years of output, I sometimes even wonder if he has any human emotions left.

Hmmm....



For me, the leveling off of my fanatic phase of FAMMINESS started in the late 90s when Prince sued (or threatened to sue) the original 7 (or was it 9?) Prince fansites? Some very popular Prince fansites closed down because of that. It prompted Steve Hammer to completely post a bunch of angry ass stuff on his formerly very pro-Prince fansite.

This was around the same time L41A was sending out very strange propoganda like:
1) Calling fans who were displeased about not receiving their copies of Crystal Ball "haters"
2) asking for bootlegs to be sent to NPG for an "Experiment"
3) Charging for lifetime memberships of websites and then shutting them down (which did happen a bit later).

But it all started in the late 90s.


Fundamentally there was a shift from just concentrating on making really interesting albums towards working on a business model that would guarantee the biggest monetary dividends for himself. It's his right after all--it is his music. But even Prince couldn't go through this shift without the quality and performance of his albums taking a sharp nosedive.

His hit-and-run tour may have been lucrative for the man, but he didn't take into account that many of his fans (MANY OF YOU) are living paycheck to paycheck, and a week or two notice for a concert means bills will get paid late.

Prince has always thought of himself first. Always. His musical indulgences proved that much. But in the 90s his decisions started to affect his fans as much as himself. It's one thing to release LoveSexy when your record company hoping for Purple Rain II, but it's something quite different when you harass housequake, The org, and various other sites and the bottom line is the greenback of which you already have plenty.

The topper for me was when he launched counter lawsuits against the 'cameraman' who had his camera taken. For a man who complained about the music industry's dominance and unfair practices, he seemed perfectly happy about suing a regular Joe---it was a lawsuit Prince would have lost, but the point was to mount the legal fees of the opponent so that it was just too costly for him/her to have their day in court--keep them tied up with legal fees. Talk about unfair practices.


The Prince of today still releases albums that turn my ear. Lotusflow3r in my opinion is his best effort in years. The fact that, at his age, he can release 3 distinct (albeit formulaic) albums in one year shows that there is still some fire left in him somewhere. The main difference now isn't that his music is worse--I think it's fine--but, that I simply don't get excited over it anymore. He's an asshole who's music I like...he's no longer someone I admire.

TheVoid said:

cborgman said:

I was thinking about this the other day. I think we had a flood for about two years, but since then, he goes like two years in between releases. He used to go one year. He's actually putting out less now that he's "free."

I'm with the OP on this sentiment. The releases just aren't as exciting as they used to be. But I still get up for many of my other favorite older bands, so it's not an internet thing. It's a quality and support thing.

WaterInYourBath said:

I think that part of it is that he fought for so many years for the "right" to do it, that when he ultimately attained it, he didn't utilize it. He did for a bit right at the start, but that faded quickly.

TheVoid said:

The entire post is brilliant. And yeah, I would agree that the shenanigans involved with attacking the fanbase really started to turn me off to him and his music for a long while.

The man himself and his style changes with every year. If he was a person who stayed the same, he would've never progressed to the bold Dirty Mind, the successful Purple Rain, Sign O Times, or Musicology. We may like a particular set that he's in for a while, but like always, he needs to molt into something new (and get away from people's expectations)

If I could play the shrink for a moment.. This is when I think it all went wrong, and why..
I think the root of the problem was with Warner. I agree with warner on most of the issues, but Prince's worthiness had just gotten a huge boost with Diamonds and Pearls, and so did his ego. He was well aware of the contract when he signed it, but suddenly decides he didnt like it, and starts a war with the very company that gave him the keys to the kingdom.
So in the midst of all this bickering, he manages to put together the Gold Experience. By the time its released, it was old news, and Warner never truley got behind it. Gold Experience was a HUGE missed opportunity. Now Prince is really pissed. He starts shelling out crappy albums just to fulfill his (record breaking $100 million) contract. Along with the weird name change, This costs him many fans! He goes from 8 million albums sold with Diamonds and pearls to that didnt even sell half that, to a series of poor selling albums year after year.
Prince thought HE was all HE needed. He was a music King, not only because of his talents, but because he had Warner behind him.
He has proved he cant do it alone. From his independent releases under NPG, to the terrible websites.
Without his electrifying concerts, Prince would probably be bankrupt.
I think his modivation is gone due to poor sales. Even his "poor" selling albums
of the 80's were still in the millions. Those albums were also very good. Parade and Lovesexy were considered poor selling albums, but they contained incredible music. Very consistant, very experimental, and full of feeling! But for the last 14 years theres been very little feeling in his music. Its more like, "Well, nothings on TV, so guess Ill go record something". Instead of the Prince of old, when it was more like, "Oh my God, Ive got to go to the studio and get this recorded!" Or "Hey, look guys, I know its 3:00 am, but we have to get this song recorded now! Its gonna be a hit!" He used to be so inspired and so full of emotion and energy, but now its more like a hobby. I believe if he got that inspiration in him one more time and some how had a platinum selling #1 album again, we would see even more "great" albums. But without a company like Warner getting behind him...its never gonna happen again.

So, When did it go wrong? When he started fueding with Warner.

ecstasy said:

True, but TOO much change TOO quickly can throw people off

If Prince was too have changed too much in the beginning, he might have lost people too

from his For U - Controversy image, shows, music there was not drastic or heavy change, just some additions

For U, Prince, Dirty mind musically is very close in style
Dirty Mind gives a glimps of Controversy, both adding the New Wave style
Controversy in look is similar to Dirty Mind and 1999 at the same time
and of course 1999 and Purple Rain in the look is very similar as well as the sound with Purple Rain, Purple Rain being more rock driven
Dirty Mind Controversy 1999 all 3 have key elements of the New Wave style

Even thought from Purple rain - ATWIAD was a drastic change in image and sound, it is still very much similar to Purple Rain in very foundational ways

ATWIAD is very much connected with Purple Rain & Parade
the look of Parade is actually similar in many ways with Parade
I call Purple Rain the Purple GLAM and Parade Purple CHIC
of course and the sound is very opposite of but very similar
God the Dance Electric and Alexis de Paris are very similar

and of course the eleclectic combination of Sign o the Times combines everything from For U - Parade/Dream Factory,
the Black Album is different but feel like the next sound out of the SOTT/Madhouse music. Which is why I believe it would have been huge, it was on the charts back then in the top 5 by way of the black market lol. I think it was in Billboard mag back then.

Lovesexy is a real drastic change musically from SOTT, not visually(they are similar...Lovesexy 2 me looks like Purple Rain & Parade style put 2gether)

Lovesexy and Batman music feels similar. Lovesexy + Madhouse = Batman

after Lovesexy though the sound look visuals were very much altered which lost me for a while

But looking down the years Diamonds & Pearls, Symbol album, Come are very similar in look style and sound and it's been like that for a while 2 or 3 album eras very similar. Yet the output became more confusing