I think Prince follows the pattern of most artist the work in the late 70's and 80's is looked upon as his greatest, Prince has because of his talent been able to keep producing great CD's not every track is well great but I take the view that not all his 80's work was great and the Albums had middle of the road songs on them just like the stuff he's producing today... his best album for me was SOTT not Purple Rain anyway, this is also in my view his best film work to date!

I'd watch SOTT DVD Film over Purple Rain any day of the week!

Giovanni777 said:

I want 2 add 2 my previous post that Prince fans R indeed a curious, diverse, contradicting, conflicting lot... no doubt about that.

Everyone here must realise that it is largely through Prince's own musical diversity through the years, that we have such a diverse group here.

Because his span has been so long, we've all essentially grown up with his albums, even though our ages range dramatically.

Even with all of that in consideration, the lack of appreciation of 'Lotusflow3r' astounds me.

When I said above that the way we listen 2 albums has changed, it is directly pertinent here.

When 'Lovesexy' was released, it was so different sonically, it threw folks off initially. There was no internet 2 publicize your impressions. U just had 2 play the album again, then maybe yet again 2 get it.

Here we have 'Lotusflow3r'... energy, drive, the guitars R stripped of some of more glossy effects of the past, and R out in front in the mix.

Most artists burn out after their first few albums, and here we have an artist who remains fresh. He's far better now than in the '90s, and most folks here seem 2 think the '90s stuff was some sort of peak.

Personally, I don't ever have 2 hear 'Diamonds & Pearls' or 'The Gold Experience' ever again. They R not nearly "timeless", so 2 speak. They wore out quickly 4 me.

As far as the electronic side goes, I'd take "Dance 4 Me", "Chocolate Box", and "Ol Skool Company" ANY DAY over "P-Control" and "NOW".

skywalker said:

But that works both ways. Don't tell those who disagree with you that they are wrong or a fool.

This was a thread stating a negative opinion of fellow fans beliefs. It was bound to get retaliatory comments as it is disrespecting other peoples beliefs and making out that the OPs beliefs are right and people who disagree are wrong. It saddens me that we can't have a civilised discussion without it degrading into 'we're right, you're wrong'.

Erik

I think another point missing here is Prince Live vs Prince on Record ...that adds to the whole 70's,80's, 90's,00's thing....

I like the LotusFlow3r set but did not dig No More Candy .... but when he played it live on French TV Last Year it sounded great and i got the sound and felt what he was saying ... which in my view just could not come across in the record/CD version....

I think if Prince did his 90's / 00's stuff live all Prince fans would dig it!

Giovanni777 said:

I really don't understand how one could not appreciate Lotus either, not and call yourself a fan of the artist. To get an album like that after 30 years and 30 plus albums seems like a gift to me.

I still think some of the fans are like coke addicts searching for a high. Since they can't get the same high it must be the drug that's changed and not themselves. So few seem to recognize their own responbilites in enjoying or not enjoying something.

Alot of Prince fans only want the "Rock" side or the "Sexy" side of Prince and really don't want the other musical gifts he brings to his CD's ... so of course they will feel a let down when he goes all "jazzy" because it's not what they want from him ...the same with the "R&B" side ....

LondonStyle said:

This is very true. I love it all that's why I am a true fan lol.
[Edited 2/5/10 7:36am]

LondonStyle said:

The same can be said of the opposite. R&B fans hating the rock stuff, etc.

If you only like rock or only R&B, you've probably come to the wrong party any way.

tricky99 said:

Hi again


Sometimes it is hard to convey the precise message one is going for without sounding too preachy. And perhaps, (I emphasize that word) that is a bit of what is going on here.

Speaking for myself, the thing that rubs me the wrong way with your posts sometimes is that they come across as though you are lecturing us that we are lesser fans for not subscribing to the current output as feverishly as we once used to. That's not to say that some of the folks don't take their displeasure over board. On that, we most definitely agree.

Some people have no class. Anyone can throw barbs around on a web site. But I would venture to say that 99% of those people would not be that disrespectful to Prince, (or anyone else) in person. So why choose that tact here? The only concern we should have for those kind of folks is to hope they eventually grow up and can engage in a civil discourse. Til then, frankly, who cares what they have to say.

But again, speaking for myself, your posts come across as a knock on folks like me as well. I happen to think the lion's share of Prince's best work is behind him. But because like you, I think he is a living musical genius and am respectful of his catalog, I still purchase everything he releases. Call me a sucker, but he's earned that respect from me. If 87% of the Org thinks Prince's musical output is horrible now, who cares? Let them. But just like you, it doesn't mean there are some of us who still consider him one of the most important musicians to ever grace this planet.

Now on to the important stuff - the music

I agree that Lotus was a HUGE step in the right direction musically. I think Boom, Colonized Mind, Feel Good, Wall of Berlin and $ are very good songs.

What's funny is, even some of the Orgs BIGGEST Prince detractors think Dreamer is one of his best songs from the past 20 years. And I find that song to be a derivative rock track that I am very rarely in the mood to listen to when I pop the album in. I also think 3121 and Planet Earth were very lacking, but I think many of the songs on Musicology that most people think are dreck, I rather like. Go figure right.

You've made the point before that Prince's music is so diverse, the tracks that many folks find brilliant others will find uninspired. And I totally agree with you there as well. It's impossible not to.

Any way, my ultimate point is, I hope you are willing to consider that there are some of us out here who think of Prince as one of their favorite musicians of all time. But we don't necessarily think everyhing he puts out is worthy of praise. Hope none of what I said came across as condescending or preachy.

And thank you Old Friends for the kind words.

tricky99 said:

One of the things that made me a hard core Prince fan back in the early 80's was the fusion of musical styles he was able 2 bring 2gether and make his own sound out of.

Some of the people who say things like we should appreciate his genius and his diversity rank ATWIAD really low on the list of favs Yet I believe that album showcase in a very cohesive diverse Prince stretched out.

ATWIAD Parade & SOTT had that affect like no other albums

My favorite Prince years, 1978-1984 was when he was fitting into current trends but had his own twist on it. During those years, he added new wave (which was the current trend) to current sounding funk of that era and it was a sound that separated him from the other artists.

He's the one that switched up in the middle of the game in 1985 and added his twist to a more traditional sound rather than a current sounding one at the time. No, I didn't like him doing that at the time because trends back then were great. But following current trends in this day and age when music from mainstream artists is worse than it has ever been in the history of music is rediculous. Hell, he switched to a more traditional sound back then so stick with it. Don't wait until trends are at their worst and start following them again. I despise current mainstream music and when I buy a Prince album, I want to escape that bullshit, not hear more of it.
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[Edited 2/5/10 11:54am]

vainandy said:

I like where your going with this, but I must say that New Wave Punk was not 'popular' it was more underground, it wasn't traditional, and he got into it early

Even the music he did thru ATWIAD Parade was not 'popular' music there was a lot of 'classical' & European:French elements pulled into it, Middle Eastern as well via the Colemans

Even when rap was just starting and still 'underground' not popular, he used elements of it with a twist heard in music like A Beautiful Night(which was actually an old English poem) Girls & Boys, Love or Money, but in the 90's when he really went farther into it, it was not Prince at all.

But the music scene in the 80's was still very diverse, a lot of fusion going on.

I wasn't saying that new wave was traditional. It was the furthest thing from it. Prince put a futuristic new wave type sound (kinda like Gary Numan or Devo) on top of current sounding funk at the time (funk that had progressed into the 1980s without the James Brownish type horns and things and very little jazz sound in current funk at the time). When I said he went to a more traditional sound, I was referring to "Around The World In A Day" and albums after that one where he started using more traditional instruments such as horns, strings, and things that he hadn't been using before.

It took me a long time to get used to those things (being in Prince's music anyway, I was fine with them being in other artists' music) but since music in general from mainstream artists has turned mainly to shit hop, I have learned to appreciate the more traditional side of Prince. Hell, I would tolerate the strings of Clare Fisher before I'd tolerate shit hop or even a fraction of the shit hop sound.

skywalker said:

co-sign ... This thread turned into something else it seems then what the original poster asked.

LoL

I love all of what P has done, hence why I can myself a hardcore. I always put every new album on heavy rotation when I get it. It sits better with me when I do that, I feel I understand it more. In some cases you might not enjoy so said album on 1st listen but that's what I do. I would agree again, that some fans are stuck on say S.O.T.T. or Purple Rain but Prince's has advanced lyrically and musically beyond just say the 1st 20yrs of his musical career. Fr example, S.O.T.T. is not one of my favorite albums. Perhaps because I know that Dream Factory was supposed to be S.O.T.T. and since Wendy & Lisa left or were fired, that's why that version never saw the light of day. That's the version I like and play often. I'm always looking forward to hear the "next" album and experience a different feel of so said new album.
[Edited 2/5/10 12:21pm]

PurpleLove7 said:

Always

Riverpoet31 said:

If Prince is such an underachiever, then what r u here 4 riverboat cause u don't seem to meet the criteria of a Prince fan. Everything u've written is synical like u r purposely tryn to slam Prince n that ain't cool!

BartVanHemelen said:

If they were diehard purplerockers they would have reuested some of L3R, But I do understand your point. Look it's like this, Although people love Pince all over the world, doesn't make them a purplehead like most of us so when they go to a Prince concert they want to hear Kiss,Purplerain,When Doves Cry,and Sign Of The Time and he knows that so that is what they'll get.If he comes to Dayton, OH he knows that he can play whatever he wants, and we want like Bob George,Joy In Repetition, It,Chocalate Box and Pusssy control.Like everything else in life it's all about supply and demand.

muleFunk said:

That's the best thing I heard allday,thanks 4 that realtalk Mulefunk.

Tricky, Sky, Gio.....KILLED IT.

undisputedpurpleboy said:

WetDream said:

+1

Fenwick too. He's a fine example of how one can express disagreement/dislike in a civilized manner without being aggresive, disrespectful or offensive.

It's a shame there aren't many people at the standards of those in here. It would be really productive and enjoyable and I could stick around a lot more...

skywalker said:

Where everyone is a wannabe music critic.

skywalker said:

I agree. Unfortunately, the subject of this thread negates what you said here because the original poster clearly thinks that anyone who enjoys and listens to anything that's not Prince's current output is "stuck in the past" and "has unrealistic expectations" and all the co-signing and signifying from the LPAB just reiterates that.

So it seems to me that it's the so-called "evolved" ones who are into the new stuff that have the problem with having their cake and eating it too!
[Edited 2/6/10 0:02am]

Lotus/MPLS have their wonderful moments but overall they're not very strong. His guitar solos are better than the songs themselves. He's just too ignorant of his own past to ever create another classic.

Good opening post.

For all the derogatory comments that Prince gets about his recent music, the guy at 51 still managed to get a Grammy nomination. But according to some, no that doesn't add up to craftsmanship.

I don't like Dreamer myself, but it doesn't mean it's a good song.
Likes and dislikes by fans are entirely subjective, says nothing about the quality of the music the artist Prince makes. While I can appreciate Prince's music of the past, I find his new music much more exciting. Because that's where he is and where he has evolved to.

Subjective opinions are not arguable points.

Bohemian67 said:

The best point of this thread.

I honestly don't believe anyone can watch Livesexy and then watch a Musicology show and say the latter is superior or on the same level as the former.

Paris9748430 said:

Bwahahaha. The Stones know damn well their new shit ain't good. Hence they don't play it. SAME THING WITH PRINCE.

Paris9748430 said:

BULLCRAP.
- Most of Parade was performed live -- and not just once, but NIGHT AFTER NIGHT.
- SOTT: the entire show breathed that album. Hits were reduced to a short medley.
- Lovesexy: first half a whirlwind of excerpts from his "dirty" songs, followed by most of Lovesexy (with a hits-section) -- the entire show was focused on the concept and CLEARLY promoted the album. NIGHT AFTER NIGHT.
- D&P: almost the entire album was played.
- 1994/95 shows consisted almost completely of new material and B-sides.
- TRC: certainly started out with lots from that album, then quickly diminished that in favor of hits.

How many songs from Emancipation were played REGULARLY? That's THREE ALBUMS of songs to pick from, and what did Prince play?

If Prince has confidence in his songs, if they are really "as good as his 1980s output", how come HE AIN'T PLAYING THEM?

TwiliteKid said:

Exactly.

For years Joe Cocker did the album + tour formula. Each tour was exactly the same: 90% of what he played on the previous tour, plus one or two songs from the new album. Yes, Joe frikking Cocker had the balls to play NEW MUSIC when he toured -- and sometimes those new songs became part of the regular playlist!

Frikking MADONNA has focused every one of her tours on whatever her current album was at the time, IIRC.

Apparently, Prince's audience isn't as sophisticated as Madonna's audience -- or even Joe Cocker's.

Paris9748430 said:

He plays NOTHING from the new material. NOTHING.

Paris9748430 said:

LIE. Factually untrue.

Paris9748430 said:[quote]If Prince toured last year, he would've played quite a bit from Lotusflow3r and Mplsound./quote]

Ghee, I wonder why. In the past he always toured his albums, couldn't wait to get on the road and play his new music.

Paris9748430 said:

And STILL DIDN'T PLAY ANY NEW MUSIC.

bellanoche said:

Congrats on completely ignoring that it's PRINCE HIMSELF who is stuck in the 1980s. Average age of the songs played on several recent gigs? MORE THAN TWENTY YEARS.

But it's the fans that are holding him back.