NONSENSE said:

No it doesn't. He's making a FRACTION of what he could be making.
[Edited 1/10/10 8:06am]

Cravens said:

Dude, ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Cravens said:

And there we have it.

Why not apply logic? How much would it cost to hire a professional team to film a concert (or rather: several concerts at the same place, so you can pick the best songs). How much would it cost to edit this properly, and master it? I bet that the ticket profits of those gigs alone would pay for this. Anything after that is PROFIT.

Hell, I bet that if he just puts a static camera at the mix desk and simply films the entire concert this way, encodes it and sells it as a download on his site (as xvid/dvd/mkv -- i.e. offer a CHOICE of formats) or even has some other company do this for him, he'd make a ton of money and would pleas plenty of fans. (Simply offering a soundboard recording in CD-quality would already please many fans.) Think this would be "boring" to watch? Perhaps, but many boots are barely more than this, except they wouldn't have the sound or picture quality.

Why do you worry whether this would be a hit? You're stuck in OLD MODELS. It's 2010,, it's not about having a hit, it's about CONNECTING with your fans.

BartVanHemelen said:

Well, my point wasn't really about the companies out there. My point was that *Prince* himself may have decided that he can't bothered, "Fight the industrty" and all that.

BartVanHemelen said:

And seriously. I wish then that you were running the show.

BartVanHemelen said:

I'm not worried about it being a hit at all. But if a DVD release ain't lucrative, meaning if it can't pay for itself, what's the point for an artist to release it? But as I said, I'm not in that line of business, I don't know or even slightly understand Prince's methods (does anyone?) .. so it's speculation on my part.

BartVanHemelen said:

I'm sure Prince is perfectly content with his wealth & career. He seems well grounded. He also seems happy making music and playing concerts when he chooses. You should be happy for him.
[Edited 1/10/10 9:29am]

Prince just wants to write, record, and play music. The fanfare & celebrity isn't that important to him. Let Prince do what he does best. Be creative. Take chances. And continue to make great music.

NONSENSE said:

That's an oxymoron, and a bullshit argument we've heard before from a certain imp of Paisley Park. He scoffs at celebrity yet sits among the snobbery that is a fashion show in Paris, and kisses up to Jay Leno when Leno was still relatively relevant on television (and that was a stretch). If celebrity or fanfare wasn't important to him, he'd not appear on television at all. He's release music, and lay low.

Prince hasn't been really creative and interesting, nor has he taken chances, in at least 10 or 12 years. There's nothing he's written that has knocked the socks off the masses. Sure we've not heard the song before, but has it really housed anything that blew our minds? Sounds? Riffs? Hooks? Effects? ANYTHING?! I'd argue not a one. We've heard his trippy guitar, echoy guitar, quirky vocal effects, and even the Linn over and over. Prince has long lost his edge as an innovator in music. It's why people still go back to the mid 80's and mid 90's even. If the 00's had been as interesting as the previous two decades, folks wouldn't even mention Sign O The Times, or The Gold Experience, or The Black Album or 1999.

The last remotely interesting thing he did like that was some feedback on "In This Bed I Scream", or a baby's heartbeat on "Sex In The Summer". I wish he made great music again. I'm hungry for something that grips me by the fucking balls, twists them and makes me sit up, and in my own squeal-ish Camille-esque voice, say "SIR YES SIR THAT'S FUNKY!" . But so far, my balls are safe. And so is Prince's musical approach.
[Edited 1/10/10 10:05am]

Not to be a buzz kill, but do you think Prince is in semi-retirement? Maybe a time in his life where he has other things in his life other than music or pleasing his fans (insert joke here). Prince hinted at that in interviews-"make room for something more in his life." Not that he is retired, but maybe having more of a personal life. So the job of musician may sometimes be secondary.

I also think the lack of DVDs release is just representative of the market. Prince (I believe-can't speak for the man), wants the "wow" affect of his live performance to stay with his live performance. It is his meal ticket and he wants to keep it that way. Part of his (IMO) strategy seems to be that every release of a Prince product is an event and since he release a new cd every year-that makes it harder to have "2" special events in the same calendar year. A DVD is a harder sell and he doesn't want low sale numbers of a DVD on the charts that would affect his one off cd sale deals. That being said, I feel we will get a new DVD with in 3 years, but it will have to contain hits in order to market it to a broader audience.

I think Prince may view his past live performances, just as that, the past. And if you want to market the new material, you don't wont the past out shining or competing with your new material. However, if he does remaster. I could see him releasing some of the concerts to DVD to coincide with the new remaster cds. But if the remaster occurs-it will probably happen after Prince gets the rights back and then resale the rights to a company who will remaster and release them and maintain them in stores.
As for Prince releasing all/most of his live footage or music from the vault that probably wont happen. And to the fans that think it will happen after he passes on, I would argue that Prince has an estate that will be designed and set up with direct orders on what to do with everything. Like a new release every year or two. Prince's music and image will be controlled by Prince in life and in after life. Again pure speculation and conjecture on my part.

poetcorner61 said:

This is where Prince is driving fans, so he shouldn't bellyache about bootleg concerts.

cborgman said:

I disagree with that. I think he is a very smart businessman, but his priorities aren't in line with his fans' demands, and the fans get frustrated.

RodeoSchro said:

.. But is a smart business man, not one who sets himself up for return-customers?

Cravens said:

He doesn't need them. He made so much money from the Musicology and 21 Nights gigs that he's set for life. He can do anything he wants, no matter what, for the rest of his life.

He breaks ground almost every time he releases something, and I think that is what interests him the most. And he gets paid up front. In that respect, he is a very good businessman.

But I agree that he doesn't make nearly as much as he could.

RodeoSchro said:

well, let's be honest... those ticket sales are people who are return customers. i can't imagine hardly anyone is going to see him nowdays based on his modern recorded output.

his entire career at this point is built on fans of his old stuff, some of which have kept with the new. nobody is hearing prince for the first times from any of his albums post TRC, and even that one would be stretching...

granted, he can ride on that probably for the rest of his life. no matter how tepid or craptacualr his new stuff is, the man can still sell out a concert because the sheer genius of his old stuff holds up, and because he is still a master musician, if not half the songwriter he used to be.

but he's a terrible business man. he makes terrible business choices that are often void of any real logic. he complains endlessly about the bootlegs, but only put out two tepid and preachy live albums of his new stuff, while AMAZING live stuff from his heyday gets bootlegged from his own vaults. he guts the fans for money, as in the lotuslfower.com debacle, and has the audacity to charge fans 8 times the retail price so they can watch streaming videos they already had legally bought. he sues the fansites to keep them from posting pics or videos.

the man makes insanely bad business choices. he needs management in the worst way, but his ego prevents him from it because he is convinced that his musical genius is the same as his business lunacy.

kewlschool said:

I think Prince just doesn't care as much anymore. Writing and producing is 2nd nature to him, and I don't think he gives that gift the attention and energy he once did. He takes it for granted, which shows in his lackluster recent decade's output.


Interesting ideas. But that is totally contradictory to what Prince himself has stated though. He says he doesn't care about the charts, and at this point, he could have the lion's share of sales numbers ,whether it's 50,000 or 2 million. And a lot of artists have CD/DVD combos for well under $20, so it's affordable for fans, and puts out something extra for the consumer. If the past is the past, then quit filling 90% of concerts with past music. It's hypocritical to say he doesn't live in the past because it makes him old (or whatever bullshit he's spewing on that subject), yet 90% of his shows ARE old material. Gheezus, how long did he work that "Take Me With U"/"Raspberry Beret" medley in the ground? How many times does he need to perform "Kiss" or "Purple Rain" or the sanitized and highly boring version of "DMSR"? He's not exactly hitting the charts anyway with records anymore.

As far as the "wow" factor left to the concerts, let's examine that theory: He's released
*4 LIVE concerts (LIVE, Sign O The Times, Aladdin, Rave, one of which was PPV), plus foreign-only releases like Livesexy, The Sacrifice of Victor, The Beautiful Experience, etc)
*A 3-disk live album which highly promoted the old songs (like Condition of the Heart, which was a 30 second interlude and unrecognizable as the song itself)
*Another live disk w/ a book
*Numerous one off live videos (I Would Die 4 U, Baby I'm A Star, Anotherloverholenyohead, Take Me With U, Live 4 Love, Nothing Compares 2 U, etc)
*Numerous live songs (We March, Vicki Waiting, Letitgo, Return of The Bump Squad, The War, Face Down, Rebirth of The Flesh, It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night, I Would Die 4 U, baby I'm A Star, Purple Rain, 1+1+1=3, Jam Of the Year cassette, Controversy, Empty Room, The Ride, numerous live takes of Days of Wild).

So him wanting to leave the "wow" effect in the concerts doesn't quite float either.


If that were the case, then 2013 will see For You remastered. We'll see about that. 2014 = Prince. 2015 = Dirty Mind (highly edited down to a single) 2016 = Controversy

ernestsewell said:

Just because Prince occasionally goes to a fashion shows or has a friend named Jay Leno doesn't mean Prince actively seeks the spotlight. A majority of time, Prince does lay low. Also, don't confuse Prince promoting his music by appearing on television shows with him wanting lots of fanfare & celebrity. Prince always promotes his music. Not himself. Since day one, Prince has wanted to maintain a private life. It's the reason he still resides in MPLS.

as for money, if Prince needed it he'd be touring. Plain and simple. He could do a farewell tour and rake up a bunch of cake. Some artist are always on tour. Prince could easily do the same thing.
[Edited 1/10/10 14:19pm]

NONSENSE said:

Prince wouldn't stick to it. How many times has he said "this is the last time I'm playing these songs"? Endless, even as recently as the Musicology Tour.

ernestsewell said:

He hasn't done a farewell tour. People will pay to see him. He's legend. He could pull off a world tour and tour for years. Look how long Cher, Tina Turner et al. went during their farewell tour. Hell, BB King is always playing somewhere and he still packs them in.

He's too busy cleaning his vagina. Duh.

NONSENSE said:

BB King ain't selling out the Staples Center either. He's still doing the modern version of the chitterlings circuit.

Tina did 116 shows on the 24/7 tour, which was to be her last. But with prompting from Oprah (whom she actually promised years ago that she'd do something), and Sophia Loren, she had a 50th anniversary tour which housed only 90 dates.

Cher did have a long tour, but she got smart and got a spot in Vegas so she's more central, and can do whatever in her show without the rigors of touring.

KISS are the ones who are blatant in lying about stuff with "Farewell" tours.

Fact remains that Prince won't do a Farewell tour. He's not a rich as he used to be, but he's also not doing the sort of things he used to do either. So the "need" more money is coming from his deals with his albums. He's getting a lump sum up front probably, plus at least 50% of the sales. Plus he's shaking down his fans every few years for $100 or $77 or whatever. So you're right, who NEEDS to tour when you have that kind of income?

ernestsewell said:

Ernestsewell-I'm down for the cd/dvd combo and think it's a great idea. However,
the wow factor is important. That is (IMO) one of the reasons he controls the videos on youtube, he doesn't want a specific image, look, or style of a performance to be competing with his new version of and old classic. It's like painting a picture of a flower you painted it one way years ago, now your going to repaint the same flower but this time your going to do it abstract.(I know, I know, insert joke here). From a marketing stand point, you don't want flooded images of you in one way to make the audience only think of you in that one role. That's why real actors who get known from one role-usually seek out another completely different role to break the public image of them. As for the releases you can't compare todays marketing of dvd's to anything before 2000. The "wow" factor is far more important-especially with an artist in his later years not backed by a label that will get him radio play. The "wow" factor was a big part of the musicology tour. The one off performances was to showcase his "wow" factor. As for the past being the past, it's not that he wont play past hits-it's that he is not so keen on releasing past tour performances. That means Prince appears to being living in the now, meaning his focused on the now. that doesn't mean he wont play past songs. It's just that some concert from 1980 is the past and why re-live it? I equate this with a basketball player and his play off game from 10 years ago that he wont release to DVD. Is the basketball player a hypocrite cause he still plays basketball and uses the same plays and dribbles the ball? No. (So, when I say past is past-that's what I mean.) That said, I still want my blue-ray Prince Lovesexy DVD. I know, we can dream...

If Prince sales the rights to the cds (after he regains the rights) they can be remastered as is-with all the naughty words. Cause he wouldn't own them. No contradiction with his state of affairs, dig it?

toejam said:

Because Prince thinks on a higher plane..


or at least he THINKS he does!!!!

ernestsewell said:

Ernest, (sorry unrelated to DVDs but) if i am reading this correct, are you saying Prince IS going to start getting his masters back in chronological order from 1978 (For You) from 2013? Did I miss this? Is this a fact or an assumption or what? Where you getting this from?

funkylust said:

No I'm not saying Prince is going to do anything. I'm saying that the ownership of his records will revert back to him after 35 years (35 to my knowledge). So For You will obviously be the first back in his ownership, in 2013, to do with what he pleases, followed by each album in succession thereafter, one a year as they come to their 35 year age.

I was responding to Kewlschool's thing about remastering, etc. I said "IF" he was to do that, he probably would wait until the records are his again, outright, then I gave the dates as an example to that end.
[Edited 1/10/10 21:56pm]

ernestsewell said:

Yeah thats what I was asking. I didn't know this. So this great, I thought he would never own them. I thought they would remain the property of WB under contract. I didn't know about the 35 year thing. Still thats cool. It will take a long time but at least we might see a 35th anniversary edition of Purple Rain. Its exciting to think he will own his masters this decade. (many of them). I had no idea.

funkylust said:

2019 for Purple Rain, but don't hold your breath. He'll be 61, and a bit more crotchety probably. He'll probably burn them one by one as he gets them back.

I wonder if he meant what he said about starting to re-record all the albums one by one in 2018?

I can see it now - "I wanna duck the taste right out of your mouth"...

MattyJam said:

"you silly motherducker"

MattyJam said:

Do you get enough BREAD!? Oh yeah.

funkylust said:

I wouldn't get your hopes up. Don't forget he renewed/extended his contract with WB several times, and I wouldn't be surprised if that invalidates the "35 years" clause. And even if it's still in place, I don't expect WB to just give up those rights.

http://www.alankorn.com/a...dings.html

ernestsewell said:

I really thought that Prince has more money these days than he ever had before, especially after the highly successful Musicology tour and the 21 Nites shows.
Sure, he´s no longer selling hit albums but even when he still was, he wasn´t really getting that much money for them.
He made 80 million dollars in 2004, right?