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vainandy said: I don't consider shit hop as "black" because back in the early 1980s when it was "hip hop" instead of "shit hop", it was fast and funky ass shaking jams like "Planet Rock", "Egypt, Egypt", etc. It was also unheard of by 90% of white people. Lots of white people got into it in the 1990s when it had slowed down, stripped down, became thug infested, and become "shit hop" so actually, I consider shit hop as "white" music.  So white people wrecked hip hop?  "New Power slide...." |
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skywalker said: vainandy said: I don't consider shit hop as "black" because back in the early 1980s when it was "hip hop" instead of "shit hop", it was fast and funky ass shaking jams like "Planet Rock", "Egypt, Egypt", etc. It was also unheard of by 90% of white people. Lots of white people got into it in the 1990s when it had slowed down, stripped down, became thug infested, and become "shit hop" so actually, I consider shit hop as "white" music. So white people wrecked hip hop? Well, I personally can somehow understand where vainandy's coming from as the decline of hip hop music more or less coincides with it becoming a music also appealing to white little kids IMO. He's still obsessed with his hate for it though...   | |
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skywalker said:[quote] ernestsewell said: I was responding to vainandy' s comment ..when he's got the same shitty sounding drum machines like..
I mean, we can argue about the groove/beat that Prince made. But it is the linn drum sound. [b]I mean, it's the same "shitty sounding" drum machine that he has used forever...regardless of if you like the beat or not.[/b] [Edited 1/7/10 12:02pm] Well, it may be the same LM-1 drum machine but that is not really the point. It´s what he used to create with the Linn back in the days. The way he experimented with it, not just use an LM-1 for the sake of using an LM-1, to be nostalgic or whatever....it´s the sound that matters, the sounds and weird effects he used to create with it.Keep in mind that Prince was one of the most creative, most innovative guys in the music biz when it comes to drum programming and experimenting. All that is lacking in his newer productions. They sometimes sound as if he thinks that fans will go nuts over a song just because it vaguely resembles a bit of the LM-1 genius of the 80s, as showcased in She´s Always In My Hair, If I was Your Girlfriend, Ballad Of Dorothy Parker, Beautiful Ones, When Doves Cry, to name a few. Merely USING an LM-1 again is not really the same as what he used to do WITH IT. Don´t get me wrong, I´m happy he´s still out there doing his thing, more creative and talented than any of his peers or predecessors or contemporaries, I`m just wondering how on earth he doesn´t seem to see what he´s doing, what is missing these days. It´s like a whole different person took control of his creative genius. What would 1986 Prince say if someone sent current Prince´s music back into the past and made him listen to the songs he´s releasing these days? Sometimes I think Prince in his mid to late 20s was more mature than Prince in his 40s or 50s. " I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?" | |
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ernestsewell said: KoolEaze said: Oh come on Ernest, you know better than to downplay the importance of the legendary Linn LM-1 drum machine. It´s not like any other drum machine, you know he created some of his most unusual beats/drumtracks with the LM-1, putting the sound through guitar flangers, playing beats backwards and all. I think you know very well that most of the classic, staple songs from his catalogue were created with the LM-1, such as The Beautiful Ones, Ballad Of Dorothy Parker, etc.etc.
It´s the experimentation and free flowing creativity that made the use of the LM-1 so special to many old school Prince fans, not the realistic sounding drum sounds. So, what do you, as a musician, think about all this? Is it even possible for him to recreate certain sounds he created while experimenting, or do you think he probably forgot most of his old tricks? Did Dr.Fink ever go into details about the creation process behind certain songs when he talked to you? My point was that the Linn was not the defining ingredient in his music. It was one element of many. The guitar sounds, the synth effects, the vocal effects, the harmonies, the polished sound (yet still sounding raw and demo like at times).....ALL of that and more contribute to the Minneapolis Sound. And if it wasn't the Linn in all that, like I said, it would have been another, and we'd be raving about how he used the 808 or whatever other drum machines were out. It's all relative. What do I think about what? I'm not a fan of the song, per se. I explained earlier about it sounding like a throw away demo. As far as Matt Fink, he never really talked about the creation process itself. He mentioned how Prince would bring them tapes and basically say "learn it", when Prince had written a new song. I remember him claiming he should have had writing credit on something else from Purple Rain, but I forget the song. I want to say "Computer Blue", but I think he's listed on that. I remember him saying he should have gotten credit on one track, but ended up getting it on another. He didn't know why. It seems though, as we already know, that Prince really wrote as a one man band most times, coming in with an idea or something. However, songs also came from jam sessions, and hopefully most times Prince was fair in doling out credits on who wrote what. I think it was Jesse Johnson that said that once in an interview (I could be wrong on that). I wasn´t talking about this one song in particular, I was talking about how,in general, he was more creative with the same instrument(s) compared to what he´s doing with an LM-1 these days, as I said in my previous post. Nevermind. " I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?" | |
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KoolEaze said: skywalker said: I mean, we can argue about the groove/beat that Prince made. But it is the linn drum sound. I mean, it's the same "shitty sounding" drum machine that he has used forever...regardless of if you like the beat or not.[/b] [Edited 1/7/10 12:02pm] Well, it may be the same LM-1 drum machine but that is not really the point. It´s what he used to create with the Linn back in the days. The way he experimented with it, not just use an LM-1 for the sake of using an LM-1, to be nostalgic or whatever....it´s the sound that matters, the sounds and weird effects he used to create with it.Keep in mind that Prince was one of the most creative, most innovative guys in the music biz when it comes to drum programming and experimenting. All that is lacking in his newer productions. They sometimes sound as if he thinks that fans will go nuts over a song just because it vaguely resembles a bit of the LM-1 genius of the 80s, as showcased in She´s Always In My Hair, If I was Your Girlfriend, Ballad Of Dorothy Parker, Beautiful Ones, When Doves Cry, to name a few. Merely USING an LM-1 again is not really the same as what he used to do WITH IT. Don´t get me wrong, I´m happy he´s still out there doing his thing, more creative and talented than any of his peers or predecessors or contemporaries, I`m just wondering how on earth he doesn´t seem to see what he´s doing, what is missing these days. It´s like a whole different person took control of his creative genius. What would 1986 Prince say if someone sent current Prince´s music back into the past and made him listen to the songs he´s releasing these days? Sometimes I think Prince in his mid to late 20s was more mature than Prince in his 40s or 50s. Isn't that the same type of question such as "what would Mozart say about this and this recording of his music" etc.? In other words: completely hypothetical. Times goes on, people move on, poeple change, some for the better, some for the worse. If you think that Prince's musical style has changed for the worse, so be it, but why all the fuss about that? | |
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no one else could've done OSC. that's what's so DOPE about Prince! i LOVE the trak and it is so NOT hip-hop. WTF!! radio has been clueless for a MINUTE about good music. ppl who still look to it (or the charts) for validation are SAD ppl and their "opinions" need to be considered in light of this naivete. | |
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ernestsewell said: skywalker said: Also, the drum machine is a linn. Isn't that THE Prince drum machine? MPLSound indeed!
No one said it was the Linn1 drum machine. Might have been, but Prince has used other drum machines besides that one. MANY artists used the Linn. The great thing about that machine was that the sounds in it were the most realistic drum sounds to that point. Prince used it to define his sound a bit more. He started using it on the Controversy album. But Linn doesn't = Minneapolis sound, solely. If Prince used an 808 exclusively, people would say "Oh, the 808 was THE Prince drum machine." Six of one, half dozen of the other. These songs sound like random funk tracks with the Linn thrown in as an after thought in some desperate attempt to hearken back to the past that he practically ignores, and denies every happened to begin with. I'm not sure why you're downplaying the significance of Prince and the LM-1 - yes, he's used other machines and sounds but, by a very long way, he has used the Linn more than any other and is well respected regarding his use of it. There is also a special relationship with Prince and the LM-1 in that Prince was one of the very first artists to be sent one of Linn's own, hand-built in his house, prototypes - along with other luminaries such as Stevie Wonder and Peter Gabriel. Your point about using an 808 doesn't really hold up and moreover supports Skywalker's point. Skywalker was saying that the LM-1 is the signature drum machine of Prince, not that he was the only artist using one and it doesn't have to be that he "exclusively" used it to make that statement true. Had he used the 808 so significantly, then "Oh, the 808 was THE Prince drum machine." would then be true.....except that it isn't! ...we have only scratched the surface of what the mind can do...
My dance project; www.zubzub.co.uk Listen to any of my tracks in full, for free, here; www.zubzub.bandcamp.com Go and glisten  | |
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skywalker said: vainandy said: I don't consider shit hop as "black" because back in the early 1980s when it was "hip hop" instead of "shit hop", it was fast and funky ass shaking jams like "Planet Rock", "Egypt, Egypt", etc. It was also unheard of by 90% of white people. Lots of white people got into it in the 1990s when it had slowed down, stripped down, became thug infested, and become "shit hop" so actually, I consider shit hop as "white" music. So white people wrecked hip hop? No, shit hop always existed even back in the day. It just didn't get any airplay unless it was played on an underground station that strictly played shit hop. If you notice shit hoppers talking about back in the day when they would have to fight to get their songs played on black radio, well that's absolutely true. Black stations played plenty of rap, but they only played the jams. No, very seldom did any of that stripped down "talking over a slow to midtempo beat" type stuff make it onto the airwaves. And rightfully so because there was nothing to it other than a beat and some talking. No groove, no rhythm, nothing you could dance to, just head bobbing bullshit. White kids got into it by the droves in the early 1990s. Damn near every little teenage white boy was into Dr. Dre's "Chronic" which really was one of the biggest mainstream "talking over a slow beat" type rap songs that changed things a whole lot. Dr. Dre himself had previously been in a group in the 1980s called World Class Wrecking Crew that threwdown hard with jams like "The Fly" and "Bionic". There were other rappers out there with that stripped down dull mitempo stuff but there weren't getting airplay. If he hadn't jammed like "The Fly", he wouldn't have gotten any airplay either in the 1980s. But the 1990s were just a totally different ballgame. Those little white kids totally ate up the dull shit (the type that black stations had turned their noses up at back in the 1980s) and the next thing you know, the dull shit had just completely taken over and wouldn't go away....even to this day. White kids didn't wreck it, they just made it mainstream. Labels, monopolies, and greed are what ruined it. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: "thug"
"infested" 
PERFECT!  Oh, you know how I hate a thug honey. The music scene for the last 15 to 20 years has looked (and acted) like rough trade.
. . . [Edited 1/7/10 12:47pm] Andy is a four letter word. | |
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JesusFreak said: It was amazing on Leno
yes it was!!!! Love God. Love Music. Love Life. | |
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EmancipationLover said: ronnwinter said: Over the past 10-12 years Prince has been much better when he walks the line between white and black. When he just completely crosses over to one or the other it usually turns out bad.
When he goes white, its usually to gay sounding. When he goes black, he usually tries to hard and it just sounds stupid. Just last night, my wife and I were listening to a song where he says "nigga". My wife said, Prince isnt black enough to say stuff like that...lol There is a Prince song recorded between ca. 1998-2000 and 2010 where Prince uses the N word???  He used that word about a hundred times in the song 2045: Radical Man. If prince.org were to be made idiot proof, someone would just invent a better idiot. | |
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EmancipationLover said: skywalker said: So white people wrecked hip hop? Well, I personally can somehow understand where vainandy's coming from as the decline of hip hop music more or less coincides with it becoming a music also appealing to white little kids IMO. He's still obsessed with his hate for it though... Agreed. However, anytime an art form starts appealing to a massive audience it has usually gone thru some cycles that have watered it down and made it more "pop". It has little to do with race, and more to do with commercialization. Hip Hop is/was no different. "New Power slide...." |
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KoolEaze said: skywalker said: I mean, we can argue about the groove/beat that Prince made. But it is the linn drum sound. I mean, it's the same "shitty sounding" drum machine that he has used forever...regardless of if you like the beat or not.[/b] [Edited 1/7/10 12:02pm] Well, it may be the same LM-1 drum machine but that is not really the point. It´s what he used to create with the Linn back in the days. The way he experimented with it, not just use an LM-1 for the sake of using an LM-1, to be nostalgic or whatever....it´s the sound that matters, the sounds and weird effects he used to create with it.Keep in mind that Prince was one of the most creative, most innovative guys in the music biz when it comes to drum programming and experimenting. All that is lacking in his newer productions. They sometimes sound as if he thinks that fans will go nuts over a song just because it vaguely resembles a bit of the LM-1 genius of the 80s, as showcased in She´s Always In My Hair, If I was Your Girlfriend, Ballad Of Dorothy Parker, Beautiful Ones, When Doves Cry, to name a few. Merely USING an LM-1 again is not really the same as what he used to do WITH IT. Don´t get me wrong, I´m happy he´s still out there doing his thing, more creative and talented than any of his peers or predecessors or contemporaries, I`m just wondering how on earth he doesn´t seem to see what he´s doing, what is missing these days. It´s like a whole different person took control of his creative genius. What would 1986 Prince say if someone sent current Prince´s music back into the past and made him listen to the songs he´s releasing these days? Sometimes I think Prince in his mid to late 20s was more mature than Prince in his 40s or 50s. I hear you. However, I suspect that Prince often does use the Linn like he did in the 80's, but we are used to it. I mean what was new and exotic in '80 is now 30 years old. Some are used to it, some are fickle, some are bored and spend all day at the org. Is that Prince's fault? Maybe. But appreciation of art goes mostly one way. Example: As I said earlier, I think "Dance 4 Me" is vintage Prince. It sounds like 1987, yet timeless. That song IS Prince. If "Dance 4 Me" would have been on SOTT in place of "Hot Thing" many fans would defend that song 'til they were dead and hold it in high regard. Some people see the old stuff with purple tinted glasses. Hearing Prince at 17 is different than hearing him at 37. If he had released "hot thing" now, would people love it? Some would, but there would be a HUGE section of hardcore fans bitching and moaning about it. For years and years I heard about this song from '88 called "Rave un2 the Joy fantastic". It was available only on bootlegs and wickedly awesome. When it officially was released in 1999, cynical fans turned their noses up at it and pissed all over that album. Whatever. I just think that people all are of a different mind about what they want from Prince and are basically just like my mother... [Edited 1/7/10 19:29pm] "New Power slide...." |
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ernestsewell said: joelmarable said: r u sick?name something funkier on radio.in fact name something funkier period and not by prince. this funk is dragging and its all that, nobody can funk like p ,stop tripping.
Yeah, that's why it's all over radio, has a amazingly innovative video, and is a bonus DVD-ROM on the CD maxi single. Have u not noticed that RADIO SUCKS? Im glad P is not on the radio, that would mean he sucks. but he dont. Oh wait.....it's not. "Its flier to B hungry than fat" | |
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vainandy said: Or to ask where the drummer is when he's got the same shitty sounding drum machines like they have on the very track he's criticizing them on. Talk about a hypocrit. goes over your head doesn't it? Change it one more time.. | |
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lezama said: vainandy said: Or to ask where the drummer is when he's got the same shitty sounding drum machines like they have on the very track he's criticizing them on. Talk about a hypocrit. goes over your head doesn't it? why are u on here? "Its flier to B hungry than fat" | |
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lotusboy said: lezama said: goes over your head doesn't it? why are u on here? Procrastinating. Change it one more time.. | |
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skywalker said: Some people see the old stuff with purple tinted glasses. Change it one more time.. | |
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i don't think it would matter what prince released these days. his days topping the pop charts are long long long over. singles don't matter as much for him these days in the music industry. * * *
Prince's Classic Finally Expanded The Deluxe 'Purple Rain' Reissue http://www.popmatters.com...n-reissue/ | |
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This thread has me cracking up. I like the song though.  | |
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skywalker said: KoolEaze said: Well, it may be the same LM-1 drum machine but that is not really the point. It´s what he used to create with the Linn back in the days. The way he experimented with it, not just use an LM-1 for the sake of using an LM-1, to be nostalgic or whatever....it´s the sound that matters, the sounds and weird effects he used to create with it.Keep in mind that Prince was one of the most creative, most innovative guys in the music biz when it comes to drum programming and experimenting. All that is lacking in his newer productions. They sometimes sound as if he thinks that fans will go nuts over a song just because it vaguely resembles a bit of the LM-1 genius of the 80s, as showcased in She´s Always In My Hair, If I was Your Girlfriend, Ballad Of Dorothy Parker, Beautiful Ones, When Doves Cry, to name a few. Merely USING an LM-1 again is not really the same as what he used to do WITH IT. Don´t get me wrong, I´m happy he´s still out there doing his thing, more creative and talented than any of his peers or predecessors or contemporaries, I`m just wondering how on earth he doesn´t seem to see what he´s doing, what is missing these days. It´s like a whole different person took control of his creative genius. What would 1986 Prince say if someone sent current Prince´s music back into the past and made him listen to the songs he´s releasing these days? Sometimes I think Prince in his mid to late 20s was more mature than Prince in his 40s or 50s. I hear you. However, I suspect that Prince often does use the Linn like he did in the 80's, but we are used to it. I mean what was new and exotic in '80 is now 30 years old. Some are used to it, some are fickle, some are bored and spend all day at the org. Is that Prince's fault? Maybe. But appreciation of art goes mostly one way. Example: As I said earlier, I think "Dance 4 Me" is vintage Prince. It sounds like 1987, yet timeless. That song IS Prince. If "Dance 4 Me" would have been on SOTT in place of "Hot Thing" many fans would defend that song 'til they were dead and hold it in high regard. Some people see the old stuff with purple tinted glasses. Hearing Prince at 17 is different than hearing him at 37. If he had released "hot thing" now, would people love it? Some would, but there would be a HUGE section of hardcore fans bitching and moaning about it. For years and years I heard about this song from '88 called "Rave un2 the Joy fantastic". It was available only on bootlegs and wickedly awesome. When it officially was released in 1999, cynical fans turned their noses up at it and pissed all over that album. Whatever. I just think that people all are of a different mind about what they want from Prince and are basically just like my mother... [Edited 1/7/10 19:29pm] I like Dance 4 Me a lot, even better than Hot Thing. The only thing I don´t like about it is the namedropping (Christian Dior) but other than that it has all the trademark elements of a catchy Prince club song. With Rave, I´m a bit undecided.....I think the fans were unhappy because it was a different version, not as powerful as the live renditions they already knew and also slightly different from the studio outtake from 88.The album Rave contained a few really good songs. IMO, it was the couple of really weak songs that ruined the flow of it but I didn´t find it that bad when it came out. " I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?" | |
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The worst crap Prince writes still shows more imagination and talent than 90% of the shit on radio today. All these dudes writing in a Prince style just write a profane tracks with some chick moaning in the background. Where's the 'Purple Rain styled track' or the 'Sign O' The Times styled track'. You'd swear that Prince only did the Dirty Mind album and some naughty B-Sides if you listened to those claiming to be influenced by him. When  go 2 a Prince concert or related event it's all  up in the house but when log onto this site and the miasma of bitchiness is completely overwhelming! | |
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a true funky jam...dig the guitar solo at the end also. | |
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I really like Old Skool Company as well as Better With Time--I think they are graceful songs giving a nod to nostalgia with stylish sound and appealing lyrics. That, alone, makes them worth more than most I hear on the radio or the internet. Yeah, maybe they aren't what he released in the past but they are still good songs. Period. So there!  | |
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pennylover said: 2freaky4church1 said: I know people that hate Prince but love that song. They can't believe that it is Prince. It would have been a big hit. Too bad.
Agree. Totally love OSC. The beat, the grove along with P's vocals is way 2 funky Especially the live version from Jay Leno show! | |
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Its great, okay it has a shit hop feel, but a positive message, and songs with a positive message I like. Besides its Camille, how can it go wrong. So what are u going 2 do? R u just gonna sit there and watch? I'm not gonna stop until the war is over. Its gonna take a long time | |
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Huggiebear said: Its great, okay it has a shit hop feel, but a positive message, and songs with a positive message I like. Besides its Camille, how can it go wrong.
Every time Prince uses a squeaky voice setting doesn't mean it's Camille. It's NOT Camille on this track, or "F.U.N.K.". | |
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ernestsewell said: Huggiebear said: Its great, okay it has a shit hop feel, but a positive message, and songs with a positive message I like. Besides its Camille, how can it go wrong.
Every time Prince uses a squeaky voice setting doesn't mean it's Camille. It's NOT Camille on this track, or "F.U.N.K.". Ernie...Camille is NOT a real person. |
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NoVideo said: i don't think it would matter what prince released these days. his days topping the pop charts are long long long over. singles don't matter as much for him these days in the music industry.
someone would have to understand the music industry today.... I sure as hell dont. We are all so full of  here | |
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I like Old School Company, others don't. Big deal.
For me to say I like smoe of his new stuff as much as I do is a bit something for me actually as I am not a huge fan of much of his newer stuff but I do like much of the Lotusflower set. | |
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