Interesting question.

I didn't know people used to be so negative towards his 90's output back in the day!

I'll leave this to the older generation, but I will suggest that many will say that it got even worse after the year 2000 and that's why they started to appreciate the 90's, because they had something even worse to compared it to.

That's not my opinion, though, mind you.

skywalker said:

I never felt this stuff in the 90's was referred to as "crap", or dismissed. He was incredibly prolific in the mid 90's, and put out a huge amount of material. Even more than he did in the 80's perhaps (aside from protege groups).

The problem wasn't the quality of Prince's music, or the amount of it. He had a bit of a flop at the beginning of the 90's, but he recovered from that. However, by the time his music was back on its feet, the name changed happened. People became increasing confused and perplexed by it. Some were downright cynical toward it, and perturbed by it. He became a laughing stock not for his music, but rather for his desire to write slave on his face, and his demanding to be referred to as a symbol w/ no way to pronounce it. The name change for seven years over shadowed a lot that he did, a lot of good stuff. He was some self-imposed tortured soul that people had no sympathy for. He was rich, and making music. The majority of the public didn't know, or cared, about the alleged restrictions of a record contract or what that meant to anyone in that position. It was just another rock star brat throwing a fit for the sake of money.

I got the name change. I understood it. I knew what Prince was trying to do. I think most fans did. I understood the death and rebirth of "Prince". But still to this day, the casual fan will put their finger in the air and wiggle it around, and say, "Doesn't he go by that weird squiggly symbol thing?" At this point, I shoot them a "WTF?" look, as if I've never heard of it at all, and simply say, "Uh no...his name is Prince. Has been for while, ya know." Not a total lie. He's been "Prince" again for almost 10 years. But the point being - even 10 years later, that is still what people remember. They don't give a shit about Lotusfuck3r, The Rainbutt Children, or whatever. They remember the name. The are still cynical. Unfortunately, it worked against him. Especially in the 90's, and still has residual effects today.

Personally speaking, as a long-time fan (28 years) I know I am slow. But I've learned that I should never outright dismiss what Prince does. Usually it takes me 4 or 5 years to really appreciate something new if I don't "get" it upon release. All of Prince's music is a goldmine to me. When something new, or something from the vault comes along, I rejoice, not just because I have new music to listen to, but because it adds to my understanding and appreciation of Prince's body of work. Like finding another piece of the puzzle, so satisfying.

skywalker said:

In retrospect, that 90's shit was wack.

I seem to remember people (not from the org) not liking 90's material that much also. And some of those same people I hear now saying that his music has been much better more recently, especially since around Musicology. I guess it depends on your preference of material. As for me, I think there are gems on all of them but the last few albums I've been able to listen to better from start to finish.

I remember being very surprised to see how many people viewed the music Prince was making beyond the 80's. I thought, wow, who knew my taste in music was so terrible all this time. I have no idea why there was a fallout, ecxept maybe they just don't like change. Most casual listeners aren't really hip to his 90's catalog (aside from maybe Diamonds and Pearls and TMBGITW) and have no opinion of it whatsoever.

Personally, I loved most of what I was hearing in the 90's at the time. But some of it hasn't aged very well, particularly a lot of the rap portions of D&P and the symbol albums and most of Emancipation and NPS. I love most everything else though, including Rave. I definitely don't feel that decade should be looked over. I would think anybody who was a fan in the 80's, would be able to find quite a few things they love from the 90's.

i don't think the late appreciation of the 90s stuff means we are slow on the uptake.

i think it's because the 90s stuf, while nowhere near as good as the 80s stuff, is a ton better than the 00s stuff. the bar just keeps getting lower and lower.

i really hope the next decade does not continue this trend.

Dave1992 said:

that's my opinion.

I agree with Ernest on the name change. It over shadowed everything else, and alot of it seemed about money. He gladly took the $100 million deal around the time of Diamonds and Pearls and even became a WB VP but then he appeared appeared to act like a brat ( to the public eyes).

I personally thought his low point was Emancipation. To this day I still can't get into it at all. I know many people here love it and it had a couple of okay tracks but it wasn't until a year or so later when Crystall Ball finally shipped to me that I got back into the music. New Powel Soul was a step in the right direction and then came Rave and Prettyman and Prince was back (although Larry and JW came too). I was mortified when he changed The Cross to The Christ in the Rave 1999 concert and again for me the road was still bumpy for me as a Prince fan. Now that he is the 'mature' Prince the music is better more relaxed but I agree with Ernest, most people still think Prince is the unpronounceable Symbol who didn't get his own way.... Or that's what they think of at least. It's a bit sad, I wish people thought of his music first and foremost.

funkylust said:

And he never got the money, nor did he never even stepped foot in his new offices at WB. He told Oprah $100,000,000 wasn't a bad deal, it was the terms that he had issues with (because she had joked that "$100,000,000 wasn't good?).

In my opinion, people tend to see the 1978-1988 as his best era also because it was his most successful. The 90's brought some great music (Gold Experience, Exodus, most of D&P and Love Symbol), but also some puzzling moves, lower sales and quite horrendous stuff (NPS, Rave). The 00's brought some great stuff like Rainbow children, One night alone, Xpectation, plus some pretty amazing gigs. But, of course, when he releases stuff (in my opinion, since 2004 his records are less and less appealing to me? Am i getting old? )that is inferior to his '80s demos , some doubts arise.
But I still think that we'll still get some great music from him in the future, and a proper world tour.
[Edited 1/1/10 16:50pm]

cborgman said:

Really? IMO There was not one moment in the 00's that was worse on a Prince album than some of the glorious Tony M. of the early 90's.

The '90s is liquid gold in comparison to the '00s, IMO.

Acrylic said:

I agree. Even Graffiti Bridge has some good music on it despite the horrible movie. Once Prince started his full on battle w/ the WB in 1993, the music soared in creativity, machismo, chutzpah, and a lot of well deserved braggadocio. I even dug Emancipation for the most part, but then the decline started, ever so slightly.

ernestsewell said:

IMHO, those words, exactly, are two of the elements to his music post-1978-1988 that, changed his music for the worse. Other elements are his war with the music industry and his foray into organized religion.

Nothinbutjoy said:

He had a lot of bragging early on though. He constantly talked about how great he could be in bed, or how he'd fuck a mama and her sister and an aunt for good measure. And all that before the end of the 80's. When The Gold Experience opens and he says, "This is your Captain with no name speaking, and I'm here to rock your world...", he does just that.

ernestsewell said:

Yeah he did, and to me "Baby I'm a Star" is the best bragging song ever. He's always been full of himself and not afraid to spell it out, especially when sex is the topic. To some degree that is part of his charm. He can fuck the taste out of my mouth anytime.

Then the 1990's came around and he had a pimp cane and a posse of rapping, dancing boys and his videos had his own versions of ho's and fancy cars. He started to RAP for fucks sake!! The flavor changed. Those elements started to dictate the flavor, not add spice to it. I don't know any other way to explain it and again, this is all IMHO.

cborgman said:

I'm starting to feel uncomfortable...

Naw, its still exactly the same. It's just some completely gave up on his newer music and do not post here anymore and will mainly just attend concerts.

I think some of us that find his 90's work cringeworthy are just slow to leave, like the woman that sticks out a failing marriage.
[Edited 1/2/10 5:13am]

skywalker said:

Prince is a very versatile artist, which I love but others tend to prefer only a specific Prince sound. Then there are those who are just plain scornful of anything that doesn't fit their idea of what Prince should do. I don't doubt that there's also a segment of fans who are slow on the uptake...that's happened to me with a few songs too.

For the most part I've never been married to a particular era, I just like what I like. Every era has albums I love and some that I don't. I have always liked a lot of the recent stuff that other fans hate on and by the same token, I wasn't impressed by some of the albums that other fans tend to worship.

skywalker said:

Yes

cborgman said:

that goes without saying..

skywalker said:

I'm certainly not praising any of it 90's or 00's. Prince is not at all the musical intellect we were told he was in the 80's and without Lisa, Eric, Sheila you could really tell. That's not to say people were lying back then, it's just that back in the dark ages of the 70's and 80's Prince was being called a genius because he could program a synthesizer, where now that's pretty much something anyone can do. So that's why I don't like his new stuff. At best he can put out one or two high quality songs every 5 years, but otherwise loads and loads of audio garbage masquerading as Prince's growth or 'NEW' sound, when in fact he's incapable of bringing the heat like he did with The Revolution.

I'm gonna step aside and let somebody else deal...

skywalker said:

the vadar voice on TRC is worse than tony m... in my opinion.

and i'm not just saying it because of your avatar.

sure, there were some low lows in the 90s (tony m, jughead, and so on) but the highs were still very high. in the 00s, the lows were low, but the highs were fewer and fewer and not as high. there were some gems, but they were a lot less 00s gems than 90s gems.

again, just my opinion
[Edited 1/2/10 15:06pm]

Dave1992 said:

the same year and everything.

lezama said:

if you don't say it up front, people who disagree tend to use it as a weapon...


[Edited 1/2/10 15:07pm]

skywalker said:

Yes, but there is a new version of all that, Tony Free - http://prince.org/msg/7/327166

i still don't like anything from the last 10-12 years. i fnd myself turning to the first 2 records more than anything else.