Hi, all, I'm new to the org and much of the Prince online discussions, but I've been a fan and club member all the way through...so...heres my virgin view...


Prince, please get back with a label! Look at the output for 3 years with a label compared to NPGMC and Co.

Free the music? I don't think so!


3 years output with record labels...

1994 - An exciting new studio album (come), A great vault album (Black), All new paisley clan album (1800) and an experimental remix album (The Beautiful Experience).

1995 - An exciting new studio album (Gold), new protoge album (Mayte), exciting new band album (Exodus), and the Purple Medley.

1996 - An epic 3 album studio release (Emancipation), a new/vault album (Chaos), A film project (Girl 6), An experimental classical album (Kamasutra).


The next 6 years...


1997 - ?

1998 - 3 CDs of outtakes, a great studio CD, 2 protoge albums

1999 - A new studio album and a vault album, which Prince would rather we not have.

2000 - ? A few outtakes here and there.

2001 - About 30 outakes that failed to make previous albums. A Part remix album, and an exciting studio album (Rainbow), 12 Ahdio adverts.

2002 - A partially new demo CD, A live album (ONA Live)

2003 - New direction in elevator music, and a few downloads...so far...


Not hard to do the maths... Its now about freeing musical output, it about control! Obviously I don't mean quality control!

Fire away!

SiSnootles said:

Rave, released in 1999 was on Arista, a label. It wasnt an independent release like the NPGMC material.

If memory serves me right, Kamasutra and Exodus were released somewhat independently on NPG Records.

The Vault was a WB album, not an independent or NPGMC deal.

I rooted for Prince getting away from a label because I thought there would be this flood of phenomenal music set free as a result.

10 Years later I wouldnt say the music is any better than what he did while with WB, in many cases its worse. Prince might be happier because he's taking in more profits, but the music is suffering because he doesn't have anyone to answer to or challenge him. I'm sorry, with the exception of Maybe TRC (which I dont like but it at least sounds like he spent more than a month on it), he hasn't put much effort into his releases the past several years. They've all been quick, knock em out in a week projects that many of us get tired of in a week as well. Who really listens to Rave or NewPowerSoul, or C&D alot?

It's all a matter of opinion, but I've enjoyed the Warner-free years very much. In fact, since Emancipation, Prince's biggest letdown in my mind was a major label release, "Rave." There are great songs there, but it's not an album I listen to often at all. And, the best thing about previous major-label releases were singles, b-sides and remixes, and with Rave, we got one maxi-single that stunk like skunk poo. All the club downloads, TRC, and ONA live are much better listening.

SiSnootles said:

Please go directly to AMP..do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. When I Lay My Hands On You alone is better than any of that early 90's and most Emancipation crap. Complaining folks are just too used to so many releases that they dont give songs time to gel.

I don't think signing with WarnerBros would help Prince, but I agree with SiSnootles completely about the last 5 years being disappointing. Plus the line about a new direction in elevator music is classic and dead-on true.


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[This message was edited Thu Jan 9 15:21:37 PST 2003 by lovemachine]

The Truth and two thirds of Emancipation are the only decent things he's released since leaving WB. The Vault was ok but doesn't really qualify as it's old stuff. He's seriously lost the plot. I played TRC upon its release to a few friends and they looked at me like i was ill. Guess i was. I haven't spun it in its entirety since the first quarter of last year!! I only played Rave once last year, too.

TRC and Xpectation are the best things he has done since 92's IMO.

I can understand people not digging TRC because I spun it once when I first got it and left it for months, I thought it was terrible.

Now I love it, and it's up there with his best, same goes for Xpectation, since I got it I've played it more than anything else by any other artist, I love it.

If TRC and Xpectation are anything to judge by Prince is hitting a second wind.

Releases post WB:

1994 - Various Artists: 1800-NEW-FUNK
1994 - : The Beautiful Experience
1994 - Prince : Come
1994 - Prince: The Black Album
1995 - : Purple Medley Single
1995 - NPG: Exodus
1995 - Mayte : Children Of The Sun
1995 - : The Gold Experience
1996 - Prince : Girl 6 Original Motion Picture Soundtrack
1996 - : Chaos & Disorder
1996 - Emancipation
1996 - NPG Orchesta: Kamasutra
1998 - NPG: New Power Soul
1998 - Chaka Khan: Come 2 My House
1998 - Graham Central Station: GCS2000
1998 - : Crystal Ball
1998 - : The Truth
1999 - The Vault...Old Friends 4 Sale
1999 - : Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic
2001 - NPG Music Club 12 Months
2001 - : Rave In2 The Joy Fantastic
2001 - Prince: The Rainbow Children
2002 - Prince: One Night Alone
2002 - Prince: One Night Alone Live
2003 - Prince: Xpectation

Not bad really.

I regard Rave as the worst of his career, but it seemed to be a turning point since TRC comes next!

MiaBocca said:

1994 - Various Artists: 1800-NEW-FUNK
1994 - : The Beautiful Experience
1994 - Prince : Come
1994 - Prince: The Black Album
1995 - : Purple Medley Single
1995 - NPG: Exodus
1995 - Mayte : Children Of The Sun
1995 - : The Gold Experience
1996 - Prince : Girl 6 Original Motion Picture Soundtrack
1996 - : Chaos & Disorder



All released through Warner Bros or with their permission.
1996 - Emancipation


Warner Bros. still got a piece of the pie of all this release.

The Vault was also a WB release.


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[This message was edited Thu Jan 9 16:01:09 PST 2003 by lovemachine]

1994 - Various Artists: 1800-NEW-FUNK
1994 - : The Beautiful Experience
1994 - Prince : Come
1994 - Prince: The Black Album
1995 - : Purple Medley Single
1995 - NPG: Exodus
1995 - Mayte : Children Of The Sun
1995 - : The Gold Experience
1996 - Prince : Girl 6 Original Motion Picture Soundtrack
1996 - : Chaos & Disorder
1996 - Emancipation
1996 - NPG Orchesta: Kamasutra
1998 - NPG: New Power Soul
1998 - Chaka Khan: Come 2 My House
1998 - Graham Central Station: GCS2000
1998 - : Crystal Ball
1998 - : The Truth
1999 - The Vault...Old Friends 4 Sale
1999 - : Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic
2001 - NPG Music Club 12 Months
2001 - : Rave In2 The Joy Fantastic

I think of this time period as The War Years.
Practically everything released in this time period was effected by or was a reaction to the Warner Bros. contract dispute.

Big labels are bad news these days. Artists are being pressured to sell millions when the market really isn't there anymore. Prince with his sales of 250,000-400,000 units would be in trouble at a major label.

NPG Records can handle his level of sales.

MiaBocca said:

Well, I haven't heard Xpectation, but TRC just edges out Emancipation(because of its sheer volume) as the best album he's done since Lovesexy, IMO. TRC is the absolute most cohesive piece of work he has done since Lovesexy. Every album between has been all over the place, without direction. Emancipation came really close to being perfect, but it got lost a little near the end. The Gold Experience, which most tout as his best of the 90's, would have been a hell of a lot better in its original format, before Prince messed with it and changed the initial tracklisting.

And the only thing I really miss about Prince not having a record label is having to hunt down his new releases, as opposed to just walking into a Best Buy or Sam Goody and just being able to pick it up. I have a prehistoric computer that won't tolerate large downloads, so the NPGMC is out of the question for me. I've missed out on a lot of Prince music over the last few years.

I think the last 14 months with the releases of TRC, ONA, ONA LIVE and XPECTATION plus the downloads are very impressive. I prefer Prince not being with a major label because they would have first of all never released these kinds of albums and secondly not this amount in such a short time.

¡IMO Prince hasn't been that productive since the EMANCIPATION release! I am very pleased, also with the 2nd year of the club.

peace

I am glad that prince has said goodbye to warner but it is really annoying that i can only get his latest stuff on import.if TRC and one nite alone was officially out in the uk i think it would do very well.can anyn one tell me about this xpectation album.it is the first i have heard of it and i want to know if u can get it in the shops or on the npg music club only?

Pls. do not 4get that HIS major reason for dropping the label was the purpose to own the masters. If you are signed permanently with a record company that is supposed to do all the promotion and marketing, they surely won't let you keep the masters. So from that point of view he did right. Anyway I think he needed some time to adjust himself to his new freedom...
I don't think that Warner would have changed that much regarding his output. I mean if he would still be with them, he might be so pissed off, to release vault jams only or even worse, he would start to put out rubbish like other "Stars"...

Peace

What I miss most about the Warner years(especially the 80s) is the sense of "structure" concerning Prince's career.A new album would come out every year.There were singles and videos.Everything was so organized.Remember in the springtime,we would always hear news of an upcoming album?

But,as others have pointed out,the music biz is now a mess.Nowadays,if Prince were signed to a major,things would be much different for him.He probably would not be able to release an album a year.He wouldn't be "spoiled" and pampered the way he was back then.He would probably be dropped if his record didn't sell big.

DavidEye said:

Yep, you're right. If big name artists like Mariah Carey and Van Halen can be dropped by their labels, Prince can be dropped, too.

Prince had a sweetheart deal with Clive Davis at Arista. He was paid more than $10 million for Rave, was allowed to keep his masters, and then sold fewer than 500,000 CDs. I doubt if he will ever get a deal like that again.

joecoco said:

U2 owns their masters. It depends on the kind of deal you sign and if you read the terms. From what Ive read if you opt to own your masters, you make less profits initially.

Shame there is no consistency. What do fans buy, CD's of a computer. I had a lovely looking shelf with my collection on it. After rave it consisted of weird shaped CDs (Not in normal jewel cases but digi packs and cardboard sleeves) and some nasty looking CD-Rs.

I liked the idea of join the club and get 4 CDs in the post. What the hell happened there?

PS. Now I have a cpu I wanted to join the club. I go to the web site and all I get are retails offers for calendars or the new LP (Again weird shaped box) Where's the news and membership form.

PS. I wish Warner did something with them master tapes like Re-Master them and bring out nice editions of the old albums instead of just leaving them to collect dust.

Or at least give them back to prince so he could.

yup i miss warners.In those days quality was on the agenda and prince had to edit.Now the edit buttons broken,as wheres the edit?..wheres the jazz sound going to go from here?more jazzy?Long rambling free for all switch off radio time?I QUOTE nobody digs your music but yourself.People are trying to like it ,but where are the songs that take hold of you,you want to listen again,and again?.I M finding ,well im trying to listen to rainbow children but the forward button gets pressed more than any prince album.IT has been the least played since well,the vault,crystal ball,newpowersoul,damn lovesexy was fine,but u knew then to edit the songs down.Listen to the melody on glam slam damn fine,listen to the clutter of work pt 1.Case rested.Also got ona live cd quite good,what happened to the cds?cd2 listened more than 1 or 3.guitar sounded not right,rave 2000 guitar sounded better,thats all.hmm back with a label for rave though.

I find the whole dispute completely boring. Nothing changed after all that Slave stuff that effectively ended his career as a major artist.

Look at the last couple of years. What we have is a quite ordinary little schedule of Album - Tour - Live DVD - Album - Live Tour - Live Album.

This is nothing special. For all his bullshit Free the Music propaganda, we got an exhorbatant 3 Disc set of Outtakes, and an equally exhorbatant 3 Disc Live CD. NOTHING DIFFERENT. You could say, what about the Piano 30 minute CD?what about the Club seats? All major artists give the same to their fan club.

Nothing anyone can say will ever change my opinion of this whole situation as at most a serious case of superstar pique. Bring back quality control, thats what I say...

DreamInWs said:

---
All the major record labels are struggling. What makes you think any of them are going to take a chance or Prince. In addtion, they would probaly not spend the money promoting the recording or make him hook up with a bunch of boy band types, rappers and sappy singers.

I think he has turned a corner with his most recent work.
Let all just wait and see what is next.

SiSnootles said:

Yeah, and of course "Kind Of Blue" by Miles Davis is 'elevator music', too... I really can't cope with you whiners.

I'm not saying "Xpectation" is as good as Davis' classic, but it's by far better than most of the non-organic, computer edited garbage that's out in stores and on airplay these days.

Have some respect for real musicianship, or keep your mouth shut. Please.

Greetings

Anachronist

Nope he doesn't need Warner Brothers or a label and he's just so much better now after being Emancipated from them. His music is Awesome and never been better Really.

B glad that u r Free, free 2 change you're mind. Free 2 to go most everywhere, anytime.
Mayer record labels r the reason why u hear the same micriwave music on every damn radio station in the entire world. Everything is the same, tasts the same, sounds the same, feels the the same. Many people never hear and will enjoy different music cuz they simply do not come in touch with it.
Music 4 the masses as u could call it, is as tasteless (in my opinion) and inovative as a rerun of 'Dallas' or 'Dynasty'. But u always get what u Xpect.

Is what u Xpect always what u want.
Prince does not always give u or me what i want or what i xpect, but at the same time it's at many occasions new, provocative or at least xtrodinary.
That's why it,s cool 2 get away from the yellow brick road and turn another path every now and then. I'm not gonna buy a new Britney or Christina album, cuz i already know what it sounds like. Listen 2 their former album and u'll know or better still listen 2 your micriwave music playing radiostation cuz they aired every single song of such an album. (2 b clear, i don't own any albums of those girls, still i know most of them, brainwashed as i am by my radiostation at work, there is no escape it seems).
That's how new music is nowadays, half of the songs in any hitlist is a cover or totally sampled from "old" music. Music 4 the masses, u get what u xpect (don't worry we'r not going 2 play something totally new - heaven forbid)

Prince latest projects r more enjoyable than what he was up 2 in the later years of Warner, with the xception of 'New Power Soul' wich totally sucks. I'm happy that the guy does not conform 2 what people xpect. He is his own boss, wether he listens 2 his fams or not is his own doing. What we decide 2 buy or 2 dissmiss is r own. I 4 one enjoy the diversity of Prince's music and i have been dissappointed at times with things from Npgmc also, but as a choice i can understand his reasons 2 do his thing the way he does. I only hope that the quality of service and offerings will b better in the year(s) 2 come. But as a whole i do not think
a return 2 a mayer record compagny would solve any problem, simply create whole new ones. Don't forget that Prince is a real piece of work, that is difficult 2 handle 4 any compagny haha! That is no problem, i mean that many people that have considered 'a genius' have been called difficult at times, it seems 2 b the way...!
I don't think that Warner ever would like 2 c Prince back, well not unless he's gonna sell millions of albums again,and i don't think he's ever going 2. When i asked the 20 year old dude in the record store when the latest Prince album was going 2 hit the stores..he search under the name "Fresh Prince" Fame it seems, is a very vain thing, good music is not. I wish u all the best.

What does the record label have to do with the quality of the music ??

Savannah said:

Absolutly nothing and everything. They r in control what u hear. That's why u hear always the same. Boybands and girlgroups, no freedom, but globalism. Music is no longer art. U r not a listener, u r not a music lover. U r a consumer and they r selling a product, like hamburgers.
And i tell ya there is nothing wrong with a hamburger, but i'd like some steak every now and then! lol!