2elijah said:

I would never visit any of the Southern states like MS or Louisiana. I think if someone is openly prejudiced to me I wouldn't hesitate to tell them off.

Jekylline said:

I don't think he is "pushing" it. He is just pointing stuff out. Take it as you like it. Some hate him for saying it. It is after all his song and he can say what he wants. I don't think he is being prejudiced to whites when doing so. To me it is like therapy. If you are feeling it, discuss it and get it out of the way rather than hoard it and let it kill you.

pplrain said:

I agree with the above
Music, like novels or poetry, deal w/ issues that
people are sometimes hesitant to discuss on their own.
It is also vital that we learn to differentiate between
the writer and what is written; because a writer is only
the channel through which the art is expressed; it is also
possible for the writer to not agree with what is being shared,
while consciously highlighting particularly views or attitudes
in society around us

pplrain said:

Well, I don't think all areas of both places are like that, but yes, racial prejudice is very much alive in many areas of the south, but it exists the northern states too, but is just not displayed "out-in-the-open" as you would see in the south. I believe it is all due to misconceptions/misleading information and lack of educations about specific groups. I lived in the south, well actually in North Florida, for 5 years, and I couldn't believe the direct racial prejudice I experienced on many occasions. There were some very nice White people that I knew for the 5 years I lived there, and was invited to their houses to have dinner on several occasions, moreso than that ever happening in NYC, which is my hometown.

Some White people in Florida, and other places I visited while in the southern part of the nation, (i.e, parts of Georgia I visited) did not hide their prejudice. You felt it, but I'm not a passive person so I wasn't going to take sh*t off anyone, especially with my NY attitude. Many hated people from the north, whether you were Black or White, because they still were sore over the civil war I think.

There was this white guy in one of the offices I worked in, and he would make "open" racist statements about Black people. He did it intentionally, because he knew I was there. I ignored him, but my supervisor was embarassed by it, and I often heard him go into his office and told him to tone it down. I was new to the south, first time ever being there in the early to mid 90s. I guess he was trying to ruffle my feathers, but he couldn't, because I knew the guy making off the wall statements about Black people was an ignorant idiot. When some of the my white co-workers found out what area of town my family lived, they acted like it was impossible for Black people to live in upscale neighborhoods and own homes. One day, when a white person came to deliver something my mom ordered, he asked her if she was the maid, my mother said, "No, I'm the owner of the house". That person was embarassed. When she told me this, we pretty much laughed it off, but at times living there, I felt like it was like living in pre-1964, before the civil rights act was signed. I left after 5 years, because Florida was just too slow for me, so I came back to the NYC.
[Edited 11/25/09 5:24am]

MyLawd said:

I agree with both of you. Sometimes it is difficult to talk to people directly about race issues in this country, because many take offense or feel uncomfortable discussing it. It is at times, an uncomfortable topic. Put it in a song, and often times, it becomes thought provoking, raises awareness, and pretty much forces one to think about a particularissue, and leads to discussions about the artist(s) purpose for writing about it. Bob Dylan, Curtis Mayfield, Joan Baez, The Beatles, Stevie Wonder, The Temptations, and many other artists all sang about societal/economic and political issues, to get their message across to others and raising awareness about it, while often times incorporating their emotions within the song.

Pplrain, I have to say this has been a very interesting thread, despite the differences, but interesting similiarities of opinions of many who participated in this discussion.
[Edited 11/25/09 5:19am]

Interesting discussion but nothing new; whenever the topic is race,especially between Black/White the fingerpointing starts and I can literally feel the animosity and in some cases the hatred on both sides of the fence. Both sides have gotten very good in pointing out the wrongs and the unfairness of the other race. And still no resolution in sight from neither side of the fence.
From what I can see racism will never ever goe away because there are too many people black and white who like to blame others for every unfair or bad life experience they encounter. As long as we can blame others for whatever bad happens in our society or to us, we don't have to take a look at ourselves and we don't have to be held accountable for any mistakes we might make.
Some of these theories are downright ridiculous. If we blame malt liquor for the violence in the black community, we have to blame the fast-food industry for the obesity epidemic in the States. And sexual crimes we can blame on the growth hormones that are freely added to our milk and meat.And the swine flu is probably another conspiracy that targets a certain group of people and the chemicals in the water...etc. The list can go on and on.
There might be some truth to these theories, but when do we stop playing the victim role and actually use our God given brains to really make a change, instead of just pointing the finger and getting mad and frustrated at each other.
If we don't start to unite and are willing to really love and respect each other instead of getting a kick out of hating and putting another race down, racism will continue to flourish.

GiGi319 said:

No disrespect but there's nothing wrong with discussing race, especially when you're discussing historical facts. Now when you're spreading lies and stereotypical BS about an entire group, then there's a problem. People can't stop talking about everything that is too sensitive for others to deal with. If that's the case, then when there are societal ills people may as well hide in the closet and let the issues fester until things get worse.

Members of communities have a right to demand specific products, businesses, chemical plants not be allowed in their communities if they feel it will tear the community down and cause harm to their quality of life. I give credit to those who are not so quick to dismiss societal issues, or question and do research as to how safe a product, certain businesses, manufacturing or chemical plants, etc., is for a community or question if discriminatory practices are affecting a specific group.

You don't make change or progress by sitting on your ass and playing blind to any societal issue. Thank goodness for those who have the intelligence to stand up to specific societal issues, and not afraid to question or expose it, and not worry about the criticism of others, like those who may be too afraid to deal with it and think if they sing "kumbaya" everyday, the problems will magically disappear.
[Edited 11/25/09 19:34pm]

GiGi319 said:

pointing out historical facts and truth is not racism

The reason why racism will never go away is because White people will never believe that anything was done wrong to Blacks,Indians,Chinese and everything that those racial groups say contrary to what they say is someone being racist toward them.

That's called "white supremacy".

Many of you subscribe to it's beliefs and you don't even know it or want to have those type of thoughts.

muleFunk said:

Im mixed race, my brother looks a lot like dad and looks as white as can be. I take more form my mom and have dark skin. When i tell my bother about what happens to me on a regular basis, he thinks i exaggerate, and he brushes it off as no big deal. No big deal when it doesn't happen to you.
Like the song goes, at home i never know I'm different, but the outside world sure does.
I could be in a good mood just shopping and before i even say a word, the clerk may switch to a mock ethnic voice as soon as i approach.
I cant even imagine what it was like 40 years ago, because even now people act doucheee to each other, and especially to someone outside their race.

muleFunk said:

This is not true. If racism is gone in your own heart...it's gone for you.

If someone else fears the pain of the past...the wrong of the past...the wrong that can still be in misunderstanding...than it is in that person that is feeding something negative.

This statement here that opens with..."The reason why racism will never go away..." is a living negative saying. It is in this living attitude that racism can still breathe.

I am White...and I cannot stand the idea that Black people were worth only one fifth of a vote. It kills me...I hate it.

Racism doesn't breath in my heart because I don't let it. It's ignorance.

excellent song.

Tame said:

That's the point .It will always be hear because we do not listen to each other because we are hearing what we only want to hear.

I am glad that you have transended the status quo. Hopefully we all can get to that level.

I just love "Dreamer" and (think) I feel some 'feelings' Prince passes (I think )...
And I, after reading some responses in this topic, do think that his lyrics in this song are true and also meant as an example (to learn from)!!!

We should just continue listening to the master... hahaha

Jekylline said:

PurpleDiamond2009 said:

Bit late response ...but as you don't live in my country your reaction is a bit narrowminded as well...(sorry that I'm white....)

muleFunk said:

What utter nonsense! So white people are "white supreists"? The whole lot of us? Im sorry, but you are talking out of your arse. If you want to carry around that chip on your shoulder, dont be surprised if the reaction you get from white people is less than favourable to you.

Maybe if you stopped walking around supposing that all white people are racist by virtue of their skin colour, you wouldnt get so much negativity directed back at you. Negativity breeds negativity mate...

muleFunk said:

Mulefunk, in all due respect, that's a bit too generalized because if you don't want people lumping us in one group and stating we are all "the same" then you can't assume that about another group, while trying to get a point across. It 's no surprise that racists exists, but you can't say an entire group thinks or act the same, because then they could say the same about yours. Just pointing out that generalizing is not the right way to go.

Everyone lives in various economic/social situations, and there are many that are aware and know racist attitudes against many non-whites do exist, as I've had many conversations here with some white orgers in the P&R forum, that are very much aware of the racism that exists in America and various parts of the world. Although those that know, may not be able to experience exactly what a non-white individual(s) goes through on a daily or occassional basis, many are aware racist attitudes exists.

On the other hand, it can't be denied, that there are many whites, not all, that don't believe racist attitudes that exists, because they are not living that experience, and then you do have many that are basically racist, and will deny that racism exists. But, stating that "white people will never believe anything was done wrong to non-whites" is pretty much generalizing and lumping all of them in one pot, and that is not the same thing you want them to do to or say about non-whites, such as you and I.

You have to be careful in expressing your opinions and not generalizing about an entire group, because at the end of the day, no matter how you, I or anyone else feels about race in this country or another, or our experiences, you have to remember that we are all individuals and don't think, eat, drink or live the same. I just think generalizing is a big mistake and many times the problem that leads to assumptions and misleading info about particular groups, such as how we've seen a handful do in this thread.
[Edited 11/27/09 11:49am]

While there is nothing wrong with discussing race, this is another one of those areas where I think Prince tries to sell us the idea he has suffered as a black man. i just don't see it. He is way too successful to sell me that he has suffered as most black people do.

He is probably loved by more white people than he is black, how many black artist can say that other than maybe the late Michael Jackson and perhaps.... I don't know... Gary Coleman....

hollywooddove said:

No disrespect, but how do you know about his experiences with racism before he became successful or after? None of us should ever assume that just because he has been successful with his music career, that he did or does not experience any racist experiences in his life.

There is no way any of us can know that, unless we walk in his shoes.He didn't commit a crime by singing about a societal ill, that still exists in this country. For one to believe it doesn't exist is just another form of denial. Secondly, you cannot measure every Black person's individual, racial experiences to be on the same level for the entire group, unless you are talking about laws that were intentionally created for them, like there were over 40 years ago, when those laws and practices were signed into law denying many Blacks, the same opportunities and civil rights as others in America..

A Black person who achieves "success" doesn't guarantee that Blacks will not or never experience racial prejudice. Being successful in one's career does not erase racism. Lastly, to even suggest that Prince is probably loved more by whites, than Blacks." is complete BS. Every fan of Prince who is Black, does not have to make a special, public announcement about how much they respect or love Prince as an individual or artist, just to prove to others that Blacks support him as an artist.
[Edited 11/27/09 20:33pm]

2elijah said:

I didn't say he wasn't, I said in my OPINION that I don't see it. My opinion only, because this is all that I have on the subject.

I don't think it's complete BS that whites prolly love him more, I have read articles that claim Prince has always had a problem connecting with the majority of blacks through his music, based on sales demographics. For goodness sakes, look at the shots of the audiences at his shows. Is that a bad thing? No. But it sure isn't BS.

2elijah said:[quote]

muleFunk said:

You are 100% correct.

Read what I posted eariler and think about it.

[u]

hollywooddove said:

No it is not a bad thing for white fans to show Prince love, no more than it is for his Black fans to show him love. Is it fair to say that if less latino fans are at his show, that Prince's white fans love him more than his latino fans? Asian Fans? Indian fans? That makes no sense at all.

As far as you reading that Prince supposedly had a "problem" connecting with black fans through his music, sounds to me like he was referencing the radio and music industry promoting r&b type music of Black artists, mainly to Black listeners and not other various, styles of music, from Black artists, making it more difficult to increase sales of his music from the Black community, and to introduce various styles of music from Black artists to them.

It was like they (music industry) was basically putting all Black artists in "one specific category", and afraid to go outside the box in fear of low record sales of their artists.. That however did not stop Black fans from appreciating Prince's music over the years as his popularity grew, and the number of Black fans increased over the years. This is how radio and the music industry have been for years, they play particular tracks of artists for specific demographics.

I guess it really makes sense for artists to try and appeal to a "wider" audience with their music, and not limit their "styles" where it basically appeals to just one segment of the population.
[Edited 11/28/09 11:41am]

muleFunk said:


Thanks, but there's really not much to think about, as I'm clear on what I understand.
[Edited 11/28/09 10:13am]

dreamer like all other princes work should be analysed
within the context of his development as a musician/artist.
it's weird how for some, it represents regression, while
for others, it's a step towards expressions of social justice.
it's only natural that there should be a whole array of
responses to it.

musically, i think it's a gem

Regardless if we like or believe the racial content of this song.. To me, the saddest part of it all is the fact that Prince has been so easily influenced by Gregory and Graham. The man that used to go left when you told him to go right, the man that Changed his name to a freak'n symbol because he didnt agree with WB, the man that never marched to the beat of any drum but his own, has let these guys mold and shape his mind into something "most" of us have come to dislike.

ronnwinter said:

This has become so Cliche.

When Prince does something I don't like... Blame Larry Graham!!!

Paris9748430 said:

Well when we hit rock bottom, ravaged by drugs and guilt what else is left but clingling to religion, guns and shady characters to lean on

I am only kidding. I was thinking of Glen Beck
[Edited 11/28/09 18:18pm]

a heated thread, honouring Dreamer


well prince is rainbow

& black only when he thinks it might pay off

I love the song, but prince as an angry black man - come on!

Rightly said:

I never thought of the song as Prince as and angry black man, or read much into it other than just as a ass cool rock song
[Edited 11/28/09 18:30pm]