Yes, I go in your opninions too!!! (and I'm fine with that!! )!!!
But, my only point was...isn't Prince it pushing it too far??? (In lyrics and believe)?
(I never really wanted a battle against 'black/white')!!!
X Jacq.

Jekylline said:

In "Dreamer?" I don't think he's pushing it too far, more like enlightening listeners to specific societal/economic ills. My interpretation of some of the lyrics in "Dreamer?" Well, I interpret some of the lyrics as raising the awareness of a societal ill, that has plagued this nation for years, and continues to divide us even 40 plus years after Dr. Martin Luther King's death. In a portion of the lyrics. he states he was not aware he was "different" referring to the existence of racial prejudice, until Dr. King was assassinated, and many in this nation knew racial prejudice was one of the reasons behind Dr. King's death.

When he calls the U.S. a plantation, he could very well also mean that Americans are all "slaves" to the American system, which continues to divide us racially/economically/socially/politically, and that we need to wake up and pay attention, so-to-speak.
[Edited 11/22/09 19:36pm]

Jekylline said:

I'm curious, what has your government done and to whom as regards your statement above ^^^ whereby you say "we are the new blacks..."

Jekylline said:

how the hell is he "pushing it too far"??? you want to say that hes "pushing it too far" because he wants to expose the hate racism and socio-economic issues that goes on within the black race? thats not going too far thats expressing his viewpoint on the state of racism in the united states and it IS a HUGE problem and i dont see how white people as yourself and RiverPoet can be offended by these types of songs UNLESS YOU somehow feel that YOU are apart of the problem
[Edited 11/22/09 19:32pm]

2elijah said:

Jekylline said:

Jekylline, I believe you put your comment inside of my post by mistake. where you stated "I think I go with you" which I believe you mean, "you agree with my comment?" If you reply after the last quote in a post, then your comment will show up after the poster you are replying to.
[Edited 11/22/09 20:05pm]

sweething said:

y

2elijah said:

Ooops....Sorry x

Jekylline said:

It's cool, I got your point though.

Jekylline said:

Because you stated that because of certain policies your government has imposed you (we) "are the new blacks". I'm interested in other countries and I'd like to know what policies have been imposed to make you feel this way.

sweething said:

In my country (Netherlands) I feel there is no freedom of speach anymore... It is like "walking on eggshells" not to hurt/piss off people with a 'certain belief'

So I/we feel restrickted(?)...(and I don't think that I live in the only country in the world were it is that way now)!

I think he sings: "Have you ever clutched the steering wheel of your heart too tight..."

sweething said:

As this is a thread about opinion, my opinion is that I dont care for the song irrelevant of how good a guitarist he can be. A song is the sum of its parts and the parts that make up this song in my opinion, do not make up a whole. - Guitar included.

Im glad it gets your rocks off though. God forbid my silly remarks should bring your world to a sudden stop.

PurpleDiamond2009 said:

Not everyone really cares about the social sufferings of America. there is a bigger world out there you know. And there is a LOT more predujices and fundamentally bad thinking among groups and societies than America has to deal with.

I know this is a thread about a specific song and its lyrics, but please, get off your high horse and stop presuming that the world studies black American history in school. A lot of us dont. All we see is what comes out on TV, the movies and music. And by and large, those mediums dont do any justice to whatever causes there may be. Just lay off the rest of the world for not getting on our knees and crying for poor old America.

Jekylline said:[quote]

sweething said:

unfortunately most of the world is this way now....its called 'political correctness'...and has nothing at all to do with what is 'correct' or not...its more a form of socialism or more accurately social engineering

unfortunately there is racism in the world from all colour spectrums....blacks vs whites vs yellow vs brown vs everything in between...racism is rampant from all sides...its really sad to be honest....what has anyone learned over the last 50 or 100 years....history repeats itself over and over

personally I think a lot of it has more to do with the colour green than anything else - the colour of money and the colour of jealousy - all comes down to greed and fear of losing power...and that is where government and corporations (they go hand in hand do they not?) step in....CONtrol.....how many people really believe that we live in a true democratic society?

we cannot change the past...we can rarely even change the present....let alone the future...but still, at the heart of it MOST people will try their best to do 'the right thing'...and every now and then something works out right...

the world's problems could be solved if the politicians really wanted to solve things - but they are hamstrung by corporations and corrupt governments who work together so they r well fed, but their people or 'cause' rarely even get the crumbs...most if not all countries are the same.....if its not colour differences, people will find another group to pick on - for example in Ireland the IRA...white vs white...its been this way since long before Shakepeare quoted that 'power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely'.....check out Prince's 'The War'...its not as far from the truth as some would think...

BruceWayneIII said:

No he said "car", not heart. The lyrics are posted on the lotusflower site. That line in the song is a reference to racial profiling.
[Edited 11/23/09 7:06am]

Rebeljuice said:

I'm sure there are many that don't care about the socio-economic or political issues that take place in America, but I don't think that was the point, and and I'm sure many Americans are aware that people around the world don't concern themselves solely about Black American history or current social issues. I have to agree that too often, the only information or education non-Americans obtain about American Blacks, is through television, movie screens and music, and often, it's the negative images, and one segment of that population, that leads to many false assumptions about all Black America, instead of being educated that Blacks are from various socio-economic/educational/political and cultural backgrounds. Too often, they are not shown the accomplishments, contributions and achievement Blacks have made have made in America, and around the world.

It is not new that musicians/artists try to bring to light specific social and global issues in the world in "song" so-to-speak, and has brought attention to many global issues because of it. Stevie Wonder is one of the American artists that brought attention to the apartheid system in South Africa, and the imprisonment of Nelson Mandela, and was very involved in protests about it, at a time when many Americans were not aware the apartheid system was taking place there. You also have American musicians/artists, and independent artists, getting involved in global issues, and bringing light to the situations in places like Darfur.

Most Americans as whole, are involved in many global issues, and compassionate about it, despite whatever socio-economic/political issues going on in our own country.
[Edited 11/23/09 7:09am]

Rebeljuice said:

if prince and his associates read any of this thread i feel really sorry for them these types of things says alot about what kind of so called "fans" he has outthere

and as for you you took everything i said way out of proporation i wasnt asking for ANYTHING and as far as "caring about social ills of america" well obviously from the lady i quoted above she must have some knowledge of the black struggle in america enough to compare her struggles in her own country to the plight of that to blacks in america but yet still wants to deny that blacks in america even stuggled in the first place and as far as them not learning black history in school whereever you are GOOD we dont need anybody else trying to whitewash steal manipulate mess with and tamper with our history its already bad enough as it is and if anyone IS ever intrested in it they can LOOK IT UP

Riverpoet31 said:

I guess with an all black band!

Jekylline said:

Actually, no - nice assumption! I'm English, born and bred. I just happen to believe I'm a citizen of the earth and, therefore, try and learn and be aware of other cultures and things of historic importance, as well as my own country's.

You're completely exaggerating about your "plight" against your government and its ridiculous and somewhat insulting to even dare to compare yourselves as the "new blacks"!! I've been to Amsterdam many times (and, actually have a gig there on New Year's Eve in Ruigoord) - you live in one of the most liberal cities in the world! To think you could ever equate your anger against what is simply political correctness to the suffering inflicted by being enslaved by a nation is simply ludicrous.

Still love you too (as I do everyone), but I find your comments are misplaced and certainly illustrate your naivety towards some very real challenges that people across the world have faced.

Rebeljuice said:

Oh come one! Shouldn't we care about the suffering of ANYONE, regardless of nationality?

And you may not know much about black American history, but surely you are aware of America's slave trade? Do you really need to know anymore than that to know that there was extreme injustice and suffering inflicted on a certain section of society?!

No-one here has attacked anyone for a lack of empathy towards America, so your "lay off the rest of the world for not getting on our knees and crying for poor old America" is moot. It has been a debate between mainly African-Americans and a guy from NEW YORK (ie American) who expressed some extremely ignorant, dismissive and racist views.

Mindflux said:

It would be really sad to know that the guy you are referring to that made those statements, is from the same state I live in, but then again knowing he may be from NY, then his stereotypical views of African-Americans does not surprise, because in NYC especially, although it has its racial problems, the racism here is not so much displayed out in the open. It's like behind the door prejudice, like institutional racism, more "hidden" than out in the open. Except where racial profiling comes into play, i.e. driving, followed in stores and assumptions that all Blacks are shoplifters or drug dealers, criminals or that you live in a ghetto etc., just to name a few.

Most of the racial prejudices are expressed behind closed doors or computer screens, whereas in many Southern parts of the U.S., most racists don't hide their racial hatred, because most of it is displayed out in the open, and you know when they don't like you.
[Edited 11/23/09 11:21am]

2elijah said:

Actually, I may have to take that back! Sorry for the mis-information - I was sure, when writing that post, that I had checked riverpoets profile the other day and said that he/she was from NY - I've just checked it again now and that information isn't there - so please accept my apologies (both you and riverpoet) - it was not my intention to mislead

Mindflux said:

That's fine, and no apology needed.

I guess you can say there really is no designated place on this earth, that is required for an individual to hold racist, misleading and stereotypical views of others.

I think this song is a near miss, hurt by how it is so obviously "inspired" by Voodoo Chile.

I also don't really think it fits the tone of the rest of the album. It's more traditional heavy rock, where the rest of the album is more jazzy rock. It would have fit better on Chaos & Disorder.

But it's okay.

2elijah said:

The mistake that most make is thinking that you are accepted in society. Blacks have to be 200% better than other races because of the sterotypical images branded about in society. If you are Black then you got your job because of Affirmative Action or if you are Black you are intellectually inferior to your peers. I have to work in an atmosphere like this . The last lines of this song ... "Wake up ! Wake Up" are messages to Blacks to wake up to thinking that you are going to be accepted and lets do our own thing.

muleFunk said:

I hear what you're saying about race issues in America, but actually, to be honest, I think the line in "Dreamer" that states "Wake Up", is directed to all Americans to wake up and pay attention and figure out how and why specific societal/economic/political ills are being used to divide and blind us.

If you get a chance, watch the documentary "American Drug War", which is currently playing on Showtime cable, and can be watched in its entirety on youtube. It gives some insight about specific issues in this country, i.e., the flow of drugs, guns in specific communities; race; war; prison being the new American slave (plantation) or free/cheap labor system; destruction of American communities, and corrupt law enforcement and government officials. Very interesting documentary to say the least.

Here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/wa...CyuBuT_7I4
[Edited 11/24/09 7:12am]

thecloud said:

As Prince responded to an (white american)interviewer for a magazine earlier this year, about being Black, Prince's responded "Am I?" and then held his hand out next to hers, as she comments she is darker than he is...

thecloud said:

This wouldn't be the first time he has made comments like that. He did the same when Prince, did a concert after the State of the Black Union conference in 2009, hosted by Tavis Smiley, for those who attended the event. Sheila E was at the SOBU conference.

At the beginning of the conference, which was aired, Tavis graciously spoke about how he and Prince are very good friends, and after the SOBU conferences, always call each other and have long discussions about many of the issues that were discussed during those conferences, and Tavis stated how concerned Prince was about issues regarding the Black community, and not just the Black community, but the economic/societal concerns within this society as a whole. So it is apparent Prince has concerns about what goes on in this society as expressed in many of the songs he has written.
[Edited 11/24/09 10:38am]