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PrintableLets not forget the economic structure of capitalism which provides that in order to have a "ruling" class, top 1%; there must be a class of consumers "middle" class and unskilled produceres "lower" classes.
This structure is comparable to the American southern plantations where you had the "master" (ruling class) the "overseers" (middle class) and "field slaves" (lower-middle) income classes. In this structure/scenario Prince's statement makes absolute sense as 99% of us are either in the middle or lower socio-economic classes. edit: type //  [Edited 11/22/09 10:14am] | |
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sweething said: Lets not forget the economic structure of capitalism which provides that in order to have a "ruling" class, top 1%; there must be a class of consumers "middle" class and unskilled produceres "lower" classes.
This structure is comparable to the American southern plantations where you had the "master" (ruling class) the "overseers" (middle class) and "field slaves" (lower-middle) income classes. In this structure/scenario Prince's statement makes absolute sense as 99% of us are either in the middle or lower socio-economic classes.
[Edited 11/22/09 10:14am] I find it interesting that Prince is engaging such issues. I think that perhaps, many people struggle with Prince's more direct manner of tackling social issues, whereas before they were more sugar-coated; acceptable to mainstream radio. SOTT was a powerful song, as are social messages in many of his other songs from the 80's, but it was not offensive to any1. now Prince's music is raw; at this stage of life, he has worked hard to be able to say what he wants to say...freedom comes with a price, and is also not for free.  [Edited 11/22/09 11:13am] Snare drum pound on the 2 & 4 | |
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RakelRosalita729 said: Riverpoet31 said: As long as black people keep blaming white people for living in ghetto's, there will be no solution.
Take care of your own life, take care of your own responsibilities to start with. seems u have it all figured out, unfortunately it's that attitude that id part of the problem Seems like he's having a hard time being a fan of a black man! | |
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MyLawd said: I find it interesting that Prince is engaging such issues. I think that perhaps, many people struggle with Prince's more direct manner of tackling social issues, whereas before they were more sugar-coated; acceptable to mainstream radio. SOTT was a powerful song, as are social messages in many of his other songs from the 80's, but it was not offensive to any1. now Prince's music is raw; at this stage of life, he has worked hard to be able to say what he wants to say...freedom comes with a price, and is also not for free.  Exposing uncomfortable truths always comes at a price, but how long can one "sugar-coat" a lie or "water-down" a socio-economic or political truth? I'd rather hear the truth in the raw, than a false truth covered in maple syrup.[Edited 11/22/09 13:59pm] | |
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Let's face it, the lyrics to "Dreamer" made you freak when you read it. It ruffles the feathers in your pillow and keeps you awake at night. It made you "think" about an "uncomfortable truth" you don't want to hear about. So accusing the artist (Prince), who wrote the lyrics to "Dreamer", of "playing victim" or "playing the race card", is an easy way out for you, rather than accepting the truth that racism is still a part of the many societal ills Americans are fighting against.
Nope, they didnt freak me out in any way, i didnt even took the effort to listen closely to them: as soon as I heard the word 'plantation' i thought: here we go again.... Lazy, awkward lyrics that are only 'uncomfortable' in the sense that they are badly written and far from 'wise'. I agree that racism exists nowadays, I also think that people who keep whining about the slavery period, and who keep blaming 'the whities' for all of their problems act racist themselves.... Its TOO easy to blame all problems within the black community unto white people. Because that simply isnt the case. Just because you were born in a 'ghetto' doesnt mean you have to stay in it and even feel 'proud' about it, as some dumb-ass rappers try to make it appear. My main 'issue' is that middle-and higher class black people keep defending those kind of ghetto-thugs just because they are black too. They are scum, just like you have white and asian scum. | |
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MyLawd said: sweething said: Lets not forget the economic structure of capitalism which provides that in order to have a "ruling" class, top 1%; there must be a class of consumers "middle" class and unskilled produceres "lower" classes.
This structure is comparable to the American southern plantations where you had the "master" (ruling class) the "overseers" (middle class) and "field slaves" (lower-middle) income classes. In this structure/scenario Prince's statement makes absolute sense as 99% of us are either in the middle or lower socio-economic classes.
[Edited 11/22/09 10:14am] I find it interesting that Prince is engaging such issues. I think that perhaps, many people struggle with Prince's more direct manner of tackling social issues, whereas before they were more sugar-coated; acceptable to mainstream radio. SOTT was a powerful song, as are social messages in many of his other songs from the 80's, but it was not offensive to any1. now Prince's music is raw; at this stage of life, he has worked hard to be able to say what he wants to say...freedom comes with a price, and is also not for free.
[Edited 11/22/09 11:13am] I think your statement touches exactly on what this stanza is about: With more rewards and accolades, then anyone before or after 21st century, oh what a shame, what a shame Race, race still matters A race to what, and where we going We in the same boat, but I'm the only one rowing  | |
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I totally disagree with you sweething.
Prince has seldom been impressive when it comes to dealing with social issues in his music. To me he has always sounded as someone too obsessed with his own issues, and too much living in his own 'dream world', to really 'grasp' current social and political issues. | |
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2elijah said: MyLawd said: I find it interesting that Prince is engaging such issues. I think that perhaps, many people struggle with Prince's more direct manner of tackling social issues, whereas before they were more sugar-coated; acceptable to mainstream radio. SOTT was a powerful song, as are social messages in many of his other songs from the 80's, but it was not offensive to any1. now Prince's music is raw; at this stage of life, he has worked hard to be able to say what he wants to say...freedom comes with a price, and is also not for free. Exposing uncomfortable truths always comes at a price, but how long can one "sugar-coat" a lie or "water-down" a socio-economic or political truth? I'd rather hear the truth in the raw, than a false truth covered in maple syrup.
[Edited 11/22/09 13:59pm] preach some mo'  Snare drum pound on the 2 & 4 | |
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Riverpoet31 said: I totally disagree with you sweething.
Prince has seldom been impressive when it comes to dealing with social issues in his music. To me he has always sounded as someone too obsessed with his own issues, and too much living in his own 'dream world', to really 'grasp' current social and political issues. Do you think he wrote this song because he was looking for new material and happened to see the State of Black Union address and thought it would make a good song? I sincerely think Prince is more grounded than that. Although he lives in his own world I am sure he has experienced some of the issues he is talking about, he was not rich all his life. He had to struggle to get to where he is right now. I also don't think he is being racist when doing so, I think he is merely trying to get his fans to take a second look at issues he feels strongly about. | |
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pplrain said: Riverpoet31 said: I totally disagree with you sweething.
Prince has seldom been impressive when it comes to dealing with social issues in his music. To me he has always sounded as someone too obsessed with his own issues, and too much living in his own 'dream world', to really 'grasp' current social and political issues. Do you think he wrote this song because he was looking for new material and happened to see the State of Black Union address and thought it would make a good song? I sincerely think Prince is more grounded than that. Although he lives in his own world I am sure he has experienced some of the issues he is talking about, he was not rich all his life. He had to struggle to get to where he is right now. I also don't think he is being racist when doing so, I think he is merely trying to get his fans to take a second look at issues he feels strongly about. mirror mirror upon the fonkay wall...what does it mean to be black? too many things replied the bass line *koff* one of the reasons he wrote the song was to pay respect to the honourable brethren of soul and chicken grease...Mr. Hendrix  Snare drum pound on the 2 & 4 | |
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Riverpoet31 said: Let's face it, the lyrics to "Dreamer" made you freak when you read it. It ruffles the feathers in your pillow and keeps you awake at night. It made you "think" about an "uncomfortable truth" you don't want to hear about. So accusing the artist (Prince), who wrote the lyrics to "Dreamer", of "playing victim" or "playing the race card", is an easy way out for you, rather than accepting the truth that racism is still a part of the many societal ills Americans are fighting against.
Nope, they didnt freak me out in any way, i didnt even took the effort to listen closely to them: as soon as I heard the word 'plantation' i thought: here we go again.... Lazy, awkward lyrics that are only 'uncomfortable' in the sense that they are badly written and far from 'wise'. I agree that racism exists nowadays, I also think that people who keep whining about the slavery period, and who keep blaming 'the whities' for all of their problems act racist themselves.... Its TOO easy to blame all problems within the black community unto white people. Because that simply isnt the case. Just because you were born in a 'ghetto' doesnt mean you have to stay in it and even feel 'proud' about it, as some dumb-ass rappers try to make it appear. My main 'issue' is that middle-and higher class black people keep defending those kind of ghetto-thugs just because they are black too. They are scum, just like you have white and asian scum. That's BS. You heard the word "plantation" and as soon as you heard it, it pissed you off that someone may be reminding you of an ugly past (slavery). and feelings of your own self-imposed guilt, rared its ugly head once again, and you blame any black person who discusses slavery for making you feel that way, because it is so easy for you to blame your own guilt on them. Has it even occurred to you that his use of "plantation" in the track "Dreamer" could also be a reference to all Americans being "slaves" to the American system, in which he refers to America as a plantation, for that reason? Let me remind you that Blacks are not responsible for what white people of the past did to many of their ancestors, and they are not responsible for your self-imposed guilt. But I suppose you blame them for that too, and you continue to "whine" about it. Secondly, you're full of it, because most middle and upper-class blacks do not support any African-American in their community who brings harm to their own. Maybe that's some fairytale BS you'd like to believe. Thirdly, don't be so quick to fall for the "rapper BS" because many of those so-called rappers who sang or sing about coming from ghetto life, either didn't come from that economic level or don't live on that economic level anymore. So you have pretty much been "bamboozled" by the industry execs who know folks like yourself would believe that "all" rappers come from that type of life. Believe it or not, many rappers actually come from lower to middle-class homes. I don't care for the lyrics used in many rap songs, but there is still nothing wrong with informing people of social conditions that exist, and you need to stop lumping all Black people in one boat believing they are all the same. I have noticed anytime Prince mentions anything about "Black" people or even perform for an event that has anything to do with Black people, you have made very, nasty comments about it. So it is apparent you have an issue with Prince associating himself with anything "Black" or singing about any social conditions that concern that group. It's the same reaction you displayed, in a previous thread earlier this year, when you learned Prince was doing a concert, after the SOBU 2009 conference in LA, for Tavis and some members of the SOBU, although Prince was not an attendee of the SOBU 2009 conference, and I explained to you what the SOBU conference's purpose was about, when you made nasty comments referencing the event. As far as the artist himself, no one forces you to listen to his music nor do you have any right to tell him or any other musician/artist what he or she shouldn't write/sing about. [Edited 11/23/09 17:31pm] | |
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The word plantation reminded me of some other tiresome black person, playing the 'slavery' card.
Its predictable, worn out, and not constructive at all. Words like 'slave', 'plantation' and 'afro-american' are almost used like 'gimmicks' nowadays by black people to defend themselves. Give me something better, deeper and honest please. | |
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To put it straight, seperate concerts for black people, things like BET are nonsense of course, you are showing your own prejudices and racism. | |
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Riverpoet31 said: The word plantation reminded me of some other tiresome black person, playing the 'slavery' card.
Its predictable, worn out, and not constructive at all. Words like 'slave', 'plantation' and 'afro-american' are almost used like 'gimmicks' nowadays by black people to defend themselves. Give me something better, deeper and honest please. Defend themselves against what?  From someone like yourself who is insecure and terrified whenever someone freely discussing America's past? You are truly showing your "weakness and fears". You're afraid of confident Blacks who are comfortable with who they are. You want to "master" how they express themselves to make you "mentally comfortable", and you're pissed off because you will never in this lifetime or another have the power to control them. So you try to pull that "whiner's self-imposed guilt game" by stating if Blacks use any terms that make you feel uncomfortable, then you use the excuse that they are playing the race and victim card.
I get it now. You're the gimmick. You're afraid of truths of the past, and not so distant past, because once again, you can't handle your own self-imposed guilt. You whine about others freely expressing and sharing information regarding social ills, especially slavery, because it reminds you of your ancestors' crimes of the past. It was the plantation owners that created the plantations, but they didn't do any work on the plantations, because they were too lazy. and forced other people to do the work for them. They bullied the people they enslaved by abusing them, because the slave owners/plantation owners didn't want to do the work themselves, but yet profited off the backs of the slaves' blood, sweat and tears, and when slavery was abolished, many slave owners were pissed off that they finally had to get the f*ck off their lazy asses and do the work on their own and find another way to make a dollar. You're mad at the wrong folks dude.
Oh yeah, I can see why you're pissed off now, you're too damned shamed to face an ugly truth. Oh yes, the feathers in your pillow are ruffled alright. The lyrics in "Dreamer" is kicked your ass right off your own bed and is making you lose sleep. [Edited 11/23/09 17:24pm] | |
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Riverpoet31 said: To put it straight, seperate concerts for black people, things like BET are nonsense of course, you are showing your own prejudices and racism.
read some history before you go around making bullshit statements like that these programs are in no way racist in any way shape or form these programs exist because white american tv refuses to intergrate any blacks on american mainstream media so they came up with their own channels and programs and what is this "sepreate concerts for black people"? i dont see any of that because ANYONE can go to a BLACK CONCERT and watch BET not just BLACK PEOPLE and besides mainstream media is already WHITE i can name over a 1000 WHITE magazines tv programs colleges radio stations AND concerts thats refuses black entry to but only a FEW black programs and media so whos being racist? and besides even if black programs do exist its STILL owned by WHITE media corporations BET and ALL of that and it protrays black people in a negative image im even surprised that your a prince fan did you know that prince is a black man as well? and as i said before blacks will stop blaming whites when whites stop their ignorance and racism against blacks and then move forward but its your illogical way of thinking thats keeping ALL of us back 100 years | |
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I love dreamer!!!
Not going in to deep though... 
But to me it feels as the new 'Purple Rain'!!! (don't know why...but it does...(to me)!!! xxx | |
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2elijah said: Riverpoet31 said: The word plantation reminded me of some other tiresome black person, playing the 'slavery' card.
Its predictable, worn out, and not constructive at all. Words like 'slave', 'plantation' and 'afro-american' are almost used like 'gimmicks' nowadays by black people to defend themselves. Give me something better, deeper and honest please. Defend themselves against what? From someone like yourself who is insecure and terrified whenever someone freely discussing America's past? You are truly showing your "weakness and fears". You're afraid of confident Blacks who are comfortable with who they are. You want to "master" how they express themselves to make you "mentally comfortable", and you're pissed off because you will never in this lifetime or another have the power to control them. So you try to pull that "whiner's self-imposed guilt game" by stating if Blacks use any terms that make you feel uncomfortable, then you use the excuse that they are playing the race and victim card.
I get it now. You're the gimmick. You're afraid of truths of the past, and not so distant past, because once again, you can't handle your own self-imposed guilt. You whine about others freely expressing and sharing information regarding social ills, especially slavery, because it reminds you of your ancestors' crimes of the past. It was the plantation owners that created the plantations, but they didn't do the work on the plantations, because they were too busy being lazy and forcing other people to do the work for them. They bullied the people they enslaved by abusing them, because the slave and plantation owners were too damn lazy to do the work themselves, so they made other people do the work for them and made money off their blood, sweat and tears, and when slavery was abolished, many were pissed off that they finally had to get the f*ck off their lazy asses and do their own damn work. Oh yeah, I can see why you're pissed off now, you're too damned shamed to face an ugly truth. Oh yes, your feathers are ruffled alright. The lyrics in "Dreamer" kicked your ass and is making you lose sleep.
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You know, I have only 1 "problem" with Prince...
And that is that he keeps talking about his "black brothers" and how bad they are treated in this world.... Prince is hanging in 'old believes' too.. Yes, I'm white!!! But his songs are discrimating too!!!!! Hope that one day we are all rainbow children... | |
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Jekylline said: You know, I have only 1 "problem" with Prince...
And that is that he keeps talking about his "black brothers" and how bad they are treated in this world.... Prince is hanging in 'old believes' too.. Yes, I'm white!!! But his songs are discrimating too!!!!! Hope that one day we are all rainbow children... If you were sitting in a history class and they taught you exactly what happened during specific, historical events, and exposed all the gory details of the types of abuse that took place during that tragedy. Then showed you images of it, like let's say the Jewish Holocaust, would you call that being discriminating? I believe when one reminds others of the past crimes and actions that happened in a country or another country, it is to let us know what kind of evil the human species is capable of, and that we should be aware that evil actions like that are bound to repeat itself. Sometimes being silent about specific historic/current social/economic/political ills, can be very dangerous. [Edited 11/22/09 16:48pm] | |
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Jekylline said: You know, I have only 1 "problem" with Prince...
And that is that he keeps talking about his "black brothers" and how bad they are treated in this world.... Prince is hanging in 'old believes' too.. Yes, I'm white!!! But his songs are discrimating too!!!!! Hope that one day we are all rainbow children... How are they discriminating? Why is it an "old belief"? Are black people not discriminated against anymore? Well done on posting something as dumb as riverpoet31! ...we have only scratched the surface of what the mind can do...
My dance project; www.zubzub.co.uk Listen to any of my tracks in full, for free, here; www.zubzub.bandcamp.com Go and glisten | |
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So, you must live in America?
I live in The Netherlands (land of the free?) YES!!! (we are the new blacks thanks to our own stupid government...yes, the same stupids that gave Nieuw Amsterdam away...(don't lecture me about history)... Still love you, Jacqueline x | |
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-- [Edited 11/22/09 17:14pm] | |
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Jekylline said: So, you must live in America?
I live in The Netherlands (land of the free?) YES!!! (we are the new blacks thanks to our own stupid government...yes, the same stupids that gave Nieuw Amsterdam away...(don't lecture me about history)... Still love you, Jacqueline x you know i always found it hilerous when everybody downplays the struggle and suffering of blacks in america but at the same time they wanna to compare their own stuggles and causes to the black people of america lol just classic | |
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Riverpoet31 said: I totally disagree with you sweething.
Prince has seldom been impressive when it comes to dealing with social issues in his music. To me he has always sounded as someone too obsessed with his own issues, and too much living in his own 'dream world', to really 'grasp' current social and political issues. Of course your statement ^^^ is your opinion and I will accept it as that. Most people do focus on their issues or lives--as the old saying goes, "no one else will". However, for you to imply that Prince or any other African American person of means, whether in America or elsewhere, has not been discriminated against, judged unfairly, treated improperly or is unaware of those social ills, exhibits your limited exposure. If you have lived a full life, no matter what race you are, you would know that your statements throughout this thread have no base in reality. Sorry. I think you're a "troll" and you're hoping to fan the flames of racism, hoping to ignite a racial divide on this website. But it will not work because Prince fans are above and beyond all of that. Thank goodness for the little man.
/// edit:bold /// [Edited 11/22/09 17:21pm] | |
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So...y'all know to know the thruth???? And Prince has his "Rainbow Children" what does he mean???? Only black???? At least most of his songs... | |
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Jekylline said: So...y'all know to know the thruth???? And Prince has his "Rainbow Children" what does he mean???? Only black???? At least most of his songs...
What exactly do you mean? Truth about what? If someone is discussing historical facts of a tragedy or a current social ill, and they express the details of that tragedy or expose how the issues of a current social ill affects a society, what is wrong with telling the truth about it? [Edited 11/22/09 17:31pm] | |
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And just to clear it... I have no intentions to be on a fight...I have many friends with ' different skin colours and / or religions ' and that it's why I think Prince is a bit narrowminded as well... | |
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Jekylline said: And just to clear it...
I have no intentions to be on a fight...I have many friends with ' different skin colours and / or religions ' and that it's why I think Prince is a bit narrowminded as well...But it's apparent he has friends of many skin colors too. Doesn't mean he is not aware of specific social ills and can't discuss or sing about it. Bono from U2 is not Black, but he sings and is involved in the socio-economic/health issues of Africa, and global hunger in the world. Should he keep his mouth shut, because he's concerned? I think not, I admire Bono for his compassion, raising awareness about specific global issues and humanitarian work. Imagine if some of his fans told him to just shut-up, don't concern himself with those issues, and just play music. [Edited 11/22/09 17:41pm] | |
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PurpleDiamond2009 said: Jekylline said: So, you must live in America?
I live in The Netherlands (land of the free?) YES!!! (we are the new blacks thanks to our own stupid government...yes, the same stupids that gave Nieuw Amsterdam away...(don't lecture me about history)... Still love you, Jacqueline x you know i always found it hilerous when everybody downplays the struggle and suffering of blacks in america but at the same time they wanna to compare their own stuggles and causes to the black people of america lol just classic You must mean struggle.... Question is: How black is Prince? (and my point is...till what point is it 'normal'??? (as I said that I live in the Netherlands and it has come to a point that you can't say anything anymore without being accused as a racist!!!!! | |
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Jekylline said: PurpleDiamond2009 said: you know i always found it hilerous when everybody downplays the struggle and suffering of blacks in america but at the same time they wanna to compare their own stuggles and causes to the black people of america lol just classic You must mean struggle.... Question is: How black is Prince? (and my point is...till what point is it 'normal'??? (as I said that I live in the Netherlands and it has come to a point that you can't say anything anymore without being accused as a racist!!!!! Being Black goes further than one's complexion seeing how Black people come in various shades from very fair to very dark. But if you are talking about one's experience of being born from Black parents and living the "culture and experiences" of a black family, then that is totally different. Now when his sister Tyka, did a previous radio interview, she referred to her family while growing up, as a Black or African-American family several times and I'm sure that description included her own brother. [Edited 11/23/09 8:20am] | |
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