2elijah said:

Well said

Rebeljuice said:

Have u ever experienced any of the situations mentioned in the song?

shytown said:

Thanks, although I made some edits to the original post..
[Edited 11/17/09 12:35pm]

He has done worse, but i am not very fond of this song.

Why?

Musicwise he can do a lot better then yet another 'Hendrix-pastiche'. It appears like some cheap bid. Just like you thought he had left his Hendrix-fixation behind with Purple Rain and Another Lonely Christmas years and years ago, he is portraying himself again as some Hendrix-ripoff years on.

Lyricwise he is playing the annoying 'victim'-card again. How long are black people going on with blaming others for all of their problems? How long are black people going to whine against white people: your ancestors were slavetraders, so you 'owe' me something!
The simple fact is: white people nowadays 'owe' you nothing at all. You have the opportunity to make something out of your life. I don't feel responsible for my slavedwelling ancestors, and i sure don't feel responsible for blacks playing the victim / racism-card. Its your own life, dont blame others.

violetblues said:

YES!!!

Riverpoet31 said:

That's not the intention of the song at all. Listen/read the lyrics closely. P is not playing the victim card at all. He is simply stating facts as to how we as black people continue to get treated.

Being a minority (not just Black either) in America is something that is hard to describe. I can't speak for other races in America, but as a Black person, I can tell you that it is not a fun experience to be judged before someone gets to know you. It's not a good expereince to have Caucasion women to clutch their purses in an elevator when you stand next to them. It's not fun when a cop pulls you over for driving while black.

I get where P is coming from with this song. He's not blaming anyone or trying to say white people owe him something, he's just stating the state of the world we live in. If we could all live in an equal society, then that would be the perfect dream. Until then "call me a dreamer too".

Riverpoet31 said:

Dude, seriously, talk about blame. I think you need to stop blaming Black people for how you feel about slavery. Your generalizations and assumptions are astounding, but hey you are entitled to your opinion. Should no one discuss any historical tragedies, and just wipe them out of the history books, for those who are too sensitive to deal with the topic? Is the issue of past "slavery" in America too hot a topic for you?

There's nothing wrong with discussing America's past or its act of slavery. No one is going to stop discussing the topic, because it may be too much for some to handle. Doesn't mean Black people are sitting around with a "begging cup" waiting for white people to throw a nickle and dime in it. Blacks have moved on long ago, since the days of slavery, jim crow, segregation, and the civil rights movement, etc., despite the racial events that took place. That never stopped them from making accomplishments for themselves, their people or making contributions to America, despite any racial tensions or obstacles they had/have to face. They live their lives on a daily basis, like the rest of society. They didn't crawl in a hole and die post-slavery, they survived dude.

There will always be struggles and historical events, that people will talk about for years to come, and sing it in song, it doesn't mean people are playing victim to social/political ills. Take the 9/11 situation that happened 8 years ago, New Yorkers are still talking about it, doesn't mean they are playing victims. Discussing the civil war between the North and South doesn't mean Northerners or Southerners play victim to it, because they do reenactments or discuss it. What about the Jewish Holocaust, should people not remember that too, because you or others may not be handle the harsh details of all those tragedies?

It's ridiculous to think no one should sing about any historical events, and if they do they are "playing victim or the race card?" That's a bunch of malarky dude. During the sixties and seventies many musicians/artists/actors/actresses, including poets sang and talked about social and political ills and strived for changes within our system, which brought awareness to the situations, and motivated people to do something about it. From Bob Dylan, Gil Scott Heron, Curtis Mayfield, Harry Belafonte, Joan Baez, Sonia Sanchez, The Temptations, Jose, Feliciano, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, so why should it be any different for Prince to sing about social ills to enlighten and raise awareness about it?

Today you have Bono from U2 singing songs about current social/political ills to bring awareness to particular situations in the world. Would you accuse him of playing the "sympathy" card? Don't be ridiculous. Prince has a right, as an artist, to express his opinions about how he feels about any social situation in this country or the world, whether it is in song or spoken publically during an interiew. It seems to me he recognizes that race, unfortunately is still an issue in America, even more than 40 years after Dr. King was murdered. He hones in Dick Gregory's comments about racial profiling in the track "Dreamer", which is still an issue many in the Black community are dealing with. It's not the end of the world dude because an artist decides to express a social ill in a song, life goes on in America dude, and so do the struggles.
[Edited 11/19/09 7:49am]

muleFunk said:

I'm saying though, some of P's songs have STRONG lessons within it.

1013Nightlife said:

Very true!
You're a genius though girl. Start a thread with your idea to Beverley Park. I'm sure we'll have great responses! I know I will definitely rise to the challenge.

'Facts' to as black people continue to get treated? Those aren't 'facts'.

Thats how far too many black people keep judging themselves: as victims, it has nothing to do with 'facts'.

There is nothing more annoying then folks like Tupac, NWA and the Notorious Big who keep whining (and glorifying) life in 'the ghetto': Being a drug- or weapondealer is your own choice, there is noone who forces you to be.

With 'dreamer' Prince falls into the same trap as the likes of Tupac, blaming others for your own 'misery', when you have the choice and freedom to look at your life from a different perspective, and make the most of it.

As long as black people keep blaming white people for living in ghetto's, there will be no solution.

Take care of your own life, take care of your own responsibilities to start with.

Riverpoet31 said:

seems u have it all figured out, unfortunately it's that attitude that id part of the problem

So, why do you keep whining about and blaming current day white people for your problems? it doesnt make sense

You keep playing the victim card: poor Tupac and poor Biggie growing up in the ghetto's, no wonder they turned out to be semi-criminal....

Thats simply bullshit... its about the choices you make and the guts you show by defending those..... Tupac and Biggie rather kept hanging in their own smallminded ghetto-thinking, then taking real responsibility.

The problem is that black people always keep blaming white people for their own misery.

You even get black people making excuses for ghetto-behaviour, for pimps, for drugdealing, for whoring, just because they are SO neglected.

Take your own responsibility, and dont automatically lay the blame unto others, it will help you forward.

Riverpoet31 said:

Riverpoet31 said:

Riverpoet, this is not the first time you went off anytime Prince associated himself with a Black event or mentioned anything about Black people.

You acted the same way when you found out Prince was doing a concert for members of the State of the Black Union Conference, that Tavis Smiley hosted, in this old thread, reply 153, and when you responded to a paragraph in my post in reply 155:

http://prince.org/msg/12/298946

Now you are making off-the-wall generalized statements about Black people playing victims, and making comments about your people not paying or owing Blacks anything. What century are you in and where do you get this information? Secondly, how did you arrive at these assumptions from the lyrics in "Dreamer?"

Blacks are not monolithic and there are many Blacks at the top of the economic scale, and successful, educationally, economically and politically. I believe you just want to believe they are whiners and losers, because you can't handle that they have made many contributions to America, and have made many accomplishments. Well, I'm here to tell you that you are full of it, and you need to stop spreading that false BS about Blacks that you get out of a candy box.
[Edited 11/17/09 21:20pm]

.
[Edited 11/18/09 10:27am]

Riverpoet31 said:

Seriously, you need to stop your false accusations about Black people in this country. You are making some very. racist generalizations about all Blacks in America, and you're going way off base regarding the lyrics in "Dreamer."
[Edited 11/17/09 20:52pm]

violetblues said:

Well said.
[Edited 11/17/09 21:02pm]

I use to play the cd and just hear this song, but now I listen to it. Lyrics and all, it's damn good!

Riverpoet31 said:

As long as you keep spreading these lies and making these false, generalized, stereotypical comments about all Black people, then people such as yourself will actually believe the lies that are spread. My advice to you is to try and understand the lyrics in "Dreamer" instead of taking offense to it.
[Edited 11/17/09 21:13pm]

I don't want my thread to be locked so please stop agitating one another.

We are talking about the lyrics in "Dreamer"... please stay on topic.

violetblues said:

Riverpoet31 said:

It is not easy to rip off Hendrix ... Prince is doing a good job at using Hendrix as an influence in this song, can you at least acknowledge that? I think all artists are influenced by other artist who came before them. However, I think Prince has a wider and more varied portfolio than Hendrix so he is not a Hendrix rip off.

daPrettyman said:

Very good points.
[Edited 11/17/09 20:55pm]

2elijah said:

Thanx

daPrettyman said:

What exactly does that have to do with anything? Or are you implying that it is a song only for a select few and as I am not a part of that select few I should just shut up and keep my opinion to myself?

If I find a song boring then it is boring to me no matter what the subject matter. Just because he has decided to make some sort of "statement" in the song does not mean that we should automatically like the song. He could be singing about shagging white women in the back of his car, the holocaust or peanut butter sandwiches for all I care. The song is just shite to me. I dont like it. The melody (or lack of) sucks, the lyrics are poorly written in places, it is complete overkill with the guitar and is more of a device to say "hey, look how good my guitar skills are".

Nope, crap song.

Rebeljuice said:

Could that be you just don't understand what he is singing about.

I wish someone could break that down for you... I am sure someone will oblige.

Many Prince songs that have overtones of social or political commentary come across as ill-informed or simplistic. Dear Mr Man, for example, or Ronnie Talk to Russia. I think P is too busy being a rockstar to really try to understand or represent the issues involved to the level of, say, a Michael Franti (and believe me, I don't relish giving props to him over Prince!)

HOWEVER, Dreamer is, for me, spot on in terms of what P has to offer in this category. It's a very personal view, it's poetic, great imagery, clever...I even caught a few lines reading them here that my ears hadn't worked out yet. I just think this tune is awesome, and the concept that he's a dreamer like MLK is so much deeper than his usual "Can't we just all get along, don't worry Cinnamon Girl, it'll be alright" insights if I can call them that. It doesn't get bogged down in blanket statements, generalisations, or political rhetoric. As I said, it's about how the situation affects him personally. And the vulnerability comes through, he's saying "I'm awesomem yet even I get affected by this!". Vulnerability is his greatest asset as a lyricist. Many of Prince's best songs display his helpless or hurtable side (Adore, Beautiful Ones, Eye Hate U, Batdance--Hah, just kidding on that one). Even though Dreamer is in a completely different musical style to those ones I just mentioned, I think the same velnerability comes through, along with some anger (both vocally and from the guitar). Great combo. Even the chemtrails reference doesn't come across as ridiculous when he's not explaining it like you're an idiot if you don't know. I guess all the secrets will be revealed in the human genome project.

But I digress -- Dreamer is fantastic, and I hope P considers this the bar for future socio-political raps.

Innocense lost and disparity found. It is a huge shock when you grown up in an environment where you are taugt to love all based on their character but are then introduced to a different values system based not on character but on color and/or race--it is unmistakeable and undeniable. Not an excuse but a reality one that can be overcome but still does exist in far too many places and circumstances. Some people are better prepared to "overcome" and others do not have the training, exposure, intellect and support systems to be successful. Regardless, we as a collective society should not deny the past.