I originally posted this on a thread, but I feel so strongly about this that I think it deserves it's own thread. I've lived in SF for 25 years, which has been a lightning rod for this kind of controversial debate--and I'm here to tell ya! We ALL need to end it! Please, just read it, and I hope you orgers will give a thoughtful response:

Also, to add my two cents to the never-ending debate about Prince's gender--I don't know what his gender is or his sexual predilections. I don't know and I don't care. Never did. I always thought that maybe he might be bi, but I really don't give a shit. He would be just as sexy to me gay or straight. I don't know and I get the fact that he doesn't want us to know. He loves the mystique that was created by him and for him and was prevalent and popular in the 1980s. He has continued that mystique...and the pay-off is evident on this forum! I am new here--I didn't realize that there was such a big deal still about his sexuality/gender! Well, I'm here to tell ya...I don't care!

I have had this conversation with my friends, gay or straight, and the conclusion that we have come to is that gender identity and one's sexuality can be fluid, exists on a continuum...with most people on either end--with one end being homosexual and the other end of the spectrum being straight. But a whole lot of people exist in between these two extremes, and cannot be defined by such narrow definitions of sexuality as this screwed up, repressed society dictates! Let us get beyond labeling people as one thing or the other! Homosexual people can be as judgmental as straight people! No one really knows what Prince's gender and/or sexuality is, and that is the way he wants it! So, why don't we all just enjoy what our individual fantasies are, such as they may be, about him, and stop arguing over it?! In the end, it doesn't matter! It only matters what he means or doesn't mean in your life, to you, as an icon. But as far as his personal life goes, that belongs to him! Whether he is GHEY, gay, straight, bi, or whatever label you choose to paste on him has nothing to do with his private life whatsoever!

It has more to do with you and your life and what he means as a musical/personal/social/spiritual/whatever! icon than anything else! So, just enjoy whatever it is he means to you and stop trashing whatever he means to someone else! Really! Mean this in the best possible way! Let us all be Prince fans in our own ways and stop arguing over what he is or is not--the way that religions argue over Jesus or Mohammed or any other religious icons! Prince is a fallible human being, like the rest of us, who happens to play great music! That's the end of my rant! LOL
[Edited 11/13/09 19:57pm]
[Edited 11/13/09 19:58pm]

[Edited 11/13/09 20:18pm]
[Edited 11/13/09 22:03pm]

poetcorner61 said:

Gender...he is male. That I am sure of.

I give up! I tried to add a thread and a post on this thread, which attempted to state the point it doesn't matter what P's sexuality is or is not--it exists on whatever level it means to the individual, like for most pop icons. But no one wants to hear that or talk about that--the fact that his gender/sexuality doesn't really matter, only in the context that it means to you! But everyone wants to feed into the Gender Mystique that Prince created 30 years ago! and continue to buy into it! Create more mystery! So the joke is on us, not him! I don't care...but so many on this org apparently do! So, I give up! Can't change the Controversy that Prince Himself created! LOL So, I'll just go with the flow--even though I don't care either way! Just love the music I hear now--the "Come" album!

^ I was gonna say, we DON'T know he's a guy?

He's straight too.

ernestsewell said:

Yeah, thanks for the sarcasm! Prince was born a man, DUHHH! I added gender-slash-sexuality for those ignoramuses who don't know the difference! But I probably confused them even more! But I thought you were the intellectual on this forum who knew the difference! You know that gender and sex are two different things--or do you? The physical sex you are born as may not equal the gender that you are! I guess I didn't make my point--Prince may be whatever gender or sexual geing he is in Reality, but to most people on this org, it doesn't matter! They will make of him what they want! Gender does not mean what male or female sex you were physically born as! Come on! Your sex is not your gender! I am only trying to make the point, which every one is missing, that people make Prince to be what they want him to be, and nobody really knows what he is, which is the way he wants it! I don't care either way! Wow! Am I being that not-understandable?! God, so tired of labels. The sex one is born with does not dictate their gender or their sexual habits! Damn, I give up! LOL

[Edited 11/13/09 22:07pm]

He's so sexy. It really doesn't matter to me either. Prince can be whatever he wants to be. He loves women.

theRight1 said:

Now, that I can agree with! Whatever his (delicate subject!) being is, he does love women! No doubt about that! God, I trapped myself with this subject, now I wish I had never taken it on! LOL Hope I can live it down! I should've just said what you did! Simple--I don't give a damn if he is man or woman, gay or straight, whatever the hell he is! Don't care, haven't cared in 30 years, didn't know it was still such a big deal! Jeez!!!!!

how come nobody ever questioned garth brooks sexuality? or flava flavs? i know why. b/c these guys aren't pretty. this has more to do with prince being pretty than him being straight or gay. folks can't handle how beautiful he is so they want to make him gay. both straights and gays do this. it's discrimination against beautiful men. shame shame shame. just like an ugly broad will get called a lesbo. not fair at all.

DesireeNevermind said:

Totally agree with you! Tired of that, of labels! Would you still feel the same if Prince came out as gay? I would! I don't care! I had a huge crush on him in the 1980s when I was young, quit buying his music in the late 90s, just came back to him recently and dig what I've been missing out on! And I still think he is sexy... Would I want to be involved with him personally? No, not my type! But his music is still relevant to me...and when I see him perform he is the Musical Icon/Dance Prophet who makes me want to shake my groove thang and go out and do what I used to do...

By the way, I posted this because I think it is an awful subject, I wanted to throw some light on it--since I was unable to, I'll never broach it again! Repeat, repeat, repeat, I don't care if Prince is gay or straight, if the person he found inside of him is male or female (from his interview with Oprah)...I don't care. And this is the last time I will ever bring it up. I like much of his music as an artist and I have admired much of what he has done in his life...Other than that, I don't give a damn! So, shoot me with a gun, got into the middle of some hot gender/sexual bending debate that will go on long after I'm gone off this org! So, bottom line is--you all can care; I don't. But now my lips are sealed!

DesireeNevermind said:

Because Garth is married, and has stayed married. It ain't about being "pretty", or folks "handling it". That's what 3rd graders claim, not adults. Discrimination ... bullshit.

This is as honest as I can be.

Some people may have had an experience with someone of the same sex as a youth...that does not make them gay.

If we believe what Prince says...and I do...Prince is a Christian within the JW domain. That is Heterosexual...And hopefully continuing on as a celibate man until marriage.

I put Prince on a pedestal as a musician and a man, however,
I am not intimidated by the "Famous," person because my love is capable of making Prince happy. I elevate myself for that reason. If U can love somebody...there is no reason to put yourself below anyone else in GOD's eyes.

poetcorner61 said:

Hi poetcorner61,

I note that u joined the org in Oct 09 and r therefore relatively new 2 it and it's many nuances. In theory this should be a good thing as it's always great 2 hear new ideas regarding Prince and his work. However, unfortunately on this post, I think u've misjudged the use of this forum as a vehicle 4 serious intelluctual debate about Prince. Now I'm not stating that orgers have no intellect as, if u've been reading many of the thousands of posts/threads here, it's quite clear that the majority have. I just think that the context 4 having a discussion about whether Prince identifies with women in terms of his gender and/or has an undisclosed sexual orientation is not going 2 b well received here.

Prince came 2 international prominence at a time when gender roles were being reappropriated by popular culture across a range of media. He was able to use the idiosyncratic ideologies of the time in order 2 shape his persona & music and this ultimately helped 2 increase his audience base (& thus become the global megastar that dominated the 80's as part of a triumvirate along with MJ & Madonna). However, the zeitgeist changed in the 90's & Prince changed along with it. Granted, he still draws from a complex and often contradictory range of styles & influences in order 2 avoid being characterised culturally. However, this by nature, can only be fully understood when all of the available evidence 2 form a judgement is on the table so to speak. Prince will never allow this to happen.

Therefore my advice 2 u is 2 enjoy this forum 4 what it does at its best; as a repository for an immense amount of facts and information about Prince and his music. Clearly we can have opinions and speculate about a whole range of scenarios about what he thinks and why. However this can be high risk(even when done in humour) owing 2 the vast range of contributors here 4m all walks of life and all with their own rationale 4 being here. Personally, I find this is when the org offers least and ends up in the kind of dialogue that is evident in within this thread.

I do hope u keep postin and can discover (and add to) some of the hidden treasures of knowledge about Prince that can be found here in order 2 help us all understand the man behind the music just that little bit better

nebkheperrure said:

Thank you. That was very well stated, much better and more objective than what I intended to write. I concur with your analysis on both Prince and this forum. If I could lock this thread right here, with your comment, I would do so. I'm encouraged to find rational people on this site, such as yourself. I guess you have to put up with all types here...LOL I was going to quit the org (I have other things to do) but I think I still might drop in from time to time...but I will no longer read threads such as this one that I posted, nor will I comment on them. I value Prince for his music, not for whatever his sexual identity is. So long live the music!

I understand your rant.

I've never been concerned with whatever sexual preference anyone is. I mean what does it matter? Each to his own as long as they don't bother me with it.

I read your title though and understood it as: Is Prince a sexual icon or not.

To that, I'd say, noone is a sex icon to me. Prince is sexy, yes, but then I find a couple of mega stars and just ordinary guys sexy.

DesireeNevermind said:

Ugly women are called lesbos?...
In the U.S.??? or every other big continent also?

poetcorner61 said:

No worries. Just felt this discussion needed a little clarity. I'll keep my eye out 4 ur future posts

SEXUAL ICON
YES
and much more.
prince makes music /image is about sex as if he invented it
whether its intentional (80's) or ''non intentional'' now. To me he'll always be a sexual being/icon

Actually, I think your post is interesting.

When I was a die-hard teenage fan back in the 80s I was more or less considered weird because of my passion for Prince. People called him a "fag" for the way he dressed and his falsetto singing, nobody could understand how I related to him, so I kept his music to myself.

At the time, it had never occured to me that he could eventually be homosexual or bisexual (I was a very young teenager), to me he was just downright sexy and I couldn't care less what side of the pavement he chose to walk on as far as his sexual life was concerned, I simply loved his music and his attitude. Of course I had no idea what was going on in his personal life since I was living in Africa and by 82 we moved to Nice, France (yup that's where Under the Cherry Moon was filmed and I was there! But that's another story). Consequence: no information for us only music!

I can understand that he appeals to women as well as men but for different reasons.

The other day I was watching an interview of Robin Wright Penn, she was asked who her favourite film director was and she answered Anthony Minghella because it was as if there was a woman trapped inside his body in the sense that he understood women and their mindset. She could relate to his creative sensitvity because they reacted alike. He was a married man with children so apparently not gay.

A highly sensitive person can interact with people from all walks of life with different sexual orientations because of how he/she connects to them. I believe this to be more obvious in a woman than in a man (my opinion), but when a man is sensitive he's labelled gay, even if he isn't. It's stupid and discriminatory.

I think that the description of Minghella can apply to Prince whose sensitivity is tangible (did you see his press conference in Paris last October? To me, it's evidence enough of how sensitve he is in spite of his aloofness), that is just one of the many reasons why he fascinates us. Many of his songs are sleazy but many are just the opposite ("With you" for starters) this variety allows us to pick and choose to our satisfaction.

Many people on the ORG say he's pretty. I don't agree, he's not pretty: that would be downsizing his sexual attractiveness. He's as well put together as a high maintenance woman, at the same time his sexuality exudes through every inch of his skin to the likes of a Casanova or a Don Juan. It's fascinating to see how similar he is to those characters (topic for a new thread?). And THAT is why women and men are attracted to him in some way or another. Or, for the same reasons, others can feel a sense of aversion for him because he doesn't fit into the traditional "male frame". Some people may feel uncomfortable when faced with a person who gives out a confused message of his sexual identity. Prince is a high master in confusing those who have a very remote interest in him.

To me there is no mistake possible, Prince is a man through and through and he likes women. Was he at one time bisexual? Maybe. Actually, who cares what his sexual orientation is or was, as long as he satisfies us with his music and his performances. And that's what it all comes down to.

I hope this wasn't too confusing...
[Edited 11/15/09 15:36pm]

DesireeNevermind said:

Yes! I totally agree! Its hard being pretty. Ive lived with this curse my entire life.