Some critics are bashing ONA Live. Here's my take on it...

Okay first up Prince is entitled to release whatever HE sees fit. It's HIS first live album and HE decides what goes on it. ONA Live obviously reflects HIS state of mind right now and which songs HE is happiest playing.

BUT IMHO...

he should have included a few more of his better known songs to make it more representative of his career at large. The two concert CDs both have approx 15 mins space on them so he could easily have included three more songs on each. Would it really have been such a bad thing to have added (not at the expense of anything) songs like "Let's Go Crazy", "Sign O The Times", "Kiss", "Little Red Corvette", "Controversy", "Seven", "Cream", "Partyman", "Peach", "Gold", "TMBGITW", "ICNTTPOYM", "Endorphinmachine" etc

The BIG problem with any live CD is that it misses (for me) the whole experience of a live concert - being able to HEAR and SEE an artist at work. I have never bought a live CD from any other artist (I do not see the point - and I expect most of the general public feel the same towards Prince) but I have bought U2 Live DVDs, for example.

I know that I will continue to watch my Lovesexy live videos more than I will listen to ONA Live (even though as a long term fan I do love ONA Live as it reminds me of the excellent concerts I attended).

I think it is a shame Prince did not include a few more well known songs, it would have made the set more complete because, as some critics allude to, this should be seen as an important release by one of the best live acts of his generation. Also think the general public might be a little more interested.

Just wondered what other people think?

As Prince would say; " Talkin' loud and sayin' nuthin'" !

james said:

James, is that a dig at me or a dig at him or a dig at the critics?

My take on ONA is almost Emancipation-like - ONA in its present form is a kick-ass one-CD disc.

I don't listen to it much, and here's why:

The ONA concert was brilliant IF YOU WERE THERE. I have a tape of one of the shows - almost identical to the ONA Live CD, yet it's like they're not even the same thing.

When you can WATCH Prince play these slower, jazzy songs it's incredible.

When you can only hear them, it's not nearly as interesting.

ONA Live would have worked better as a DVD, in my opinion.

RodeoSchro said:

Statements like this shows me that u aint a true music lover. In music only the music matters. Of course its great to see an artist play cuz then u r as close 2 musical creation as u can get. But to say u prefer 2 listen 2 studio albums and u only enjoy live material when u have moving pictures 2 support the sound is pretty damn sad. If u have a true appreciation of music u will sit and listen hard. Sometimes its better than seeing the artist play because u are not being distracted by showmanship and gags. When I go to see a live gig, I sit down and close my eyes... and I feel the music...

jaypotton said:

Damn why you people always want to change something about Prince records because it's not perfect or because it lacks something in your opinion?!

This is a new cd-box and it represents the ONA tour of 2002, period. Prince didn't want to release a greatest hits live compilation and i think that's good, i like the new songs (TRC) and i don't want to be bothered with Let's Go Crazy or 1999 (Rave Un 2 The Year 2000) over and over again!

If you want the old live stuff, go buy the old concert video/dvds/concert bootlegs and you have exactly what you're looking 4, the greatest hits, there u go.

jaypotton said:

maybe "the general public" needs 2 be hipped 2 more than 3 million takes on "when doves cry" 4 a change.

mine!

Guys this is a discussion forum which means people are allowed to post their opinions for "discussion" as opposed to saying you're wrong and I'm right.

I clearly say at the beginning of my post that Prince has the right to do whatever HE wants. I enjoy ONA Live but In My Humble Opinion I think the set would benefit from a few more well known songs.

I saw him twice in London back in October. Saturday was the most awesome concert I have ever seen (and I have seen every UK tour since 86). During the gig he slipped in a few beter known songs but rearranged to fit iin with his newer jazzy feel - they were amazing.

The beauty of LIVE music is that the artist can rearrange familiar songs to give them a new lease of life. I *personally* would have liked a CD record of what I witnessed and think ONA Live could have done that.

It would be great if the general public were "hipped 2 more than 3 million takes on WDC" but they ain't. The way to draw more people in to the genius if Prince is to ease them in by giving them a little bit of what is familiar.

I took a friend to the gig who knew a bit of Prince stuff but not much. After the Saturday gig in London she went out and bought every CD he has ever released, but she needed to hear Raspberry Beret so she felt comfortable.

familygroove said:

I wish you could buy these on DVD but because he and Warner no longer collaborate this ain't gonna happen.

As for your other comments, would an EXTRA 6 well known trax split across the two CDs really detract from the ONA Live experience for you? It's not that he didn't play them (certainly in the UK he slipped in a few - different ones each night)

P.S. Also if you are such a good Prince fan then what are you doing suggesting I buy bootlegs
[This message was edited Fri Jan 10 8:38:54 PST 2003 by jaypotton]

IrishGecko said:

Statements like yours show me you are young, immature and in desparate need of horizon-expansion.

First of all, I didn't say I only enjoy live material when I have moving pictures to support the sound (that was a well-turned phrase, by the way). I did make essentially that point with ONA Live, but you mistakenly expanded my view to include all live material ever produced. Nothing could be further from the truth.

When you watch an artist play, you are NOT close to "musical creation". You are watching musical INTERPRETATION. The creation of the music occurred when the artist first wrote and played the song. I highly doubt that any of us will ever witness Prince put lyrics on a sheet of paper, or see him flesh out a melody on his piano. But if we do, only then can we say we were at the creation of the music.

Musical INTREPRETATION is, by definition, open to interpretation. I'm a pretty skilled musician myself, and I dig anyone who has the guts to lay his fingers on the keys or fretboard and open up his mouth to the world.

But that doesn't mean that I'm going to like every single performance done by an artist. You can take any of Prince's songs that he has performed live, and I guarantee you he will tell you there are nights where he absolutely slayed the song, just as there are nights where he'll feel he played it about as poorly as it can be played.

Most nights you have it, but some nights you don't. Every musician in the world will tell you that. (So will every athlete.)

I've seen ONA Live, and that is the reason I have the perspective on this set that I do. That's why I said, at the end of my piece, it was my OPINION.

Art is subjective. It also takes many forms, including visual. Your woefully inadequate generalization is at best ill-informed; at worst, an insult.

And I have a question for you: You said, "(W)hen I go to see a live gig, I sit down and close my eyes... and I feel the music".

If you close your eyes, why do you even bother going at all?

It is represntative of the US leg of the 'ONA' tour. It was not a 'hits' tour.

If those songs were not included in the tour, then they won't be featured in the live CD of the tour will they?

Prince has such a vast amount of great material that he will never please everybody anyway.

If he had opted for a hits tour people would have said that he was a 'sell out' or a 'has been'.

I think the live set is great. So do some reviewers. From what I've seen its about 50/50.

Whether a critics review is positive or not hinges upon whether they realise and appreciate the depth and diversity of Prince's work. Many critics are writing as though the inclusion of jazz and funk is 'new' and not associated with his 80's work. They clearly missed Madhouse, The Time and practically every Prince B-side. That's there loss ...

ONA live is for us real fans, not mainstream. Bottom line!

jaypotton said:

He did the Hit n Run tour right before the ONA tour. From what you and some other critics describe , he should have released that one eh? Heavy on the past hits ..did you see the show? While it was good ( the L.A. show at least), it was not the one to release..at least not over the ONA. ONA is taking material to another level. Did you see some vids of the Hit N Run tour too? Talk about having all the hits but still being seemingly uninspired.

rdhull said:

NO no no no, I never said the ONA Live CD should be heavy on the hits. I simply said a few more well known songs might have made it more accessible/desirable to the general public. Now personally I think that would be a good thing because it would expose people to "real musicians playing real music" instead of the vast majority of crap that is out there right now.

The point about the CD being representative of the US leg of the tour is totally true (although I still believe reading the reviews that he occasionally slipped in a few better known songs).

Any musician will still want his art to be heard and appreciated by the maximum number of people - hence a retail release (also for financial reasons as the set must be expensive to produce). I think it would sell more copies had it got "SIX" more well known songs on it. I'm not talking about a live hits collection!
[This message was edited Fri Jan 10 9:02:09 PST 2003 by jaypotton]

kisscamille said:

Says who? You? If that is the case why release it to retail? Why not just release it via NPGMC because those people (including me) are the "real fans"
[This message was edited Fri Jan 10 9:01:12 PST 2003 by jaypotton]

jaypotton said:

Ok, I see your point. Thats why I think it shouldn't be heralded as his first live reelase because it is basically just a document of his latest and return to form-best tour etc. I agree that the casual fan is not going to be too impressed with the setlist and some of the arrangements of songs that hardcore fans have followed through their changes and expect. So I am at a loss of what this is..something for the hardcore because there is still some things lacking in that area, or is it for everyone, or just a document. As usual with Prince, his release is up there for judgment. But honestly I think he felt something on this one that he had to get it out.The demeanor, the fun, the all coming together. I think he feels this tour, material is his Lovesexy for the millenium. There however is a lot of material to release live where he was more faithful to the songs and included more hits that he should-can-maybe will release for the future if that is to be.

.
[This message was edited Fri Jan 10 10:04:13 PST 2003 by rdhull]

There have only been two negative reviews that have been posted here so far. But it's true that even the positive ones have wished for more hits.
But I gotta say, some of the hits, ie., Take Me With U, Diamonds and Pearls, sound kind of simplistic compared to the newer music.
Older songs, however, that weren't hits like Extraordinary, Joy in Repetition, Dorothy Parker, Adore, the snippet of Free, sound great on this collection.
I guess the bottom line is, those wishing for a Purple Rain Revue are gonna be sorely disappointed.
I'm glad Prince isn't living in the past, because that would be truly sad.

rdhull - yep in agreement. The thing is I simultaenously love and hate the rollercoaster ride that it is being a Prince fan. I freely admit to being one of those people who often wonder "what if Prince had done this or that differently" but at the end of the day what he has actually done has given me more musical pleasure then my next 10 musical heroes put together.

Prince has recorded the soundtrack to my life and I cannot imagine the last 20 years without him doing that.

ONA Live is cool and I'm glad to have it. I just wish more people could realise the true artistry that Prince represents.

I have a couple of friends who like Prince and maybe own 2 or 3 CDs (the usual suspects like D&P, SoTT etc). They didn't realise that Prince pretty much plays every instrument and writes his own songs. They thought he was a pop star with a weird image like Michael Jackson. It's people like that I would like to educate, take to a live concert so they can see Prince in action. A live album that was just a little more desirable to casual fans/general public might have helped that?

Shygirl - I'm also glad Prince isn't living in the past for my own musical adventure. I'd just like to take a few more people along for the ride
[This message was edited Fri Jan 10 9:25:32 PST 2003 by jaypotton]

Wait a minute. "The critics" are not saying it's a bad album at all. Most reviews are excellent, with only one so far that is notoriously negative.

Prince fans are so sensitive.. I guess it's a measure of just how hardcore the hardcore is becoming. They get 15 reviews and one of them is a big thumb down, and that's the review that they talk about. Now we've got a thread whose title gives the impression that, as a whole, the critics are not happy. Not true...

As a therapy, go back and read all the positive things that were said.

My take : this is a compelling document of Prince's tour. I wished Prince would have picked one show and not overdub anything, but what he delivered is excellent music loaded with terrific performances, some that are downright timeless. his talent shines through.

jaypotton said:

kisscamille said:

Exactly! Prince put this out (and did this tour) for us, not them. I love ONAL and I don't care if everyone else hates it. Its makin' me smile, tap my foot and shake my behind...that is all that matters to me.

Thanks Pagey. Others on this thread did not agree with what I said. Unfortunately, I don't think Prince will ever get mainstream music fans buying his music unless he has a huge commercial hit. Too bad for them is all I can say.

The ONA live album is perfect - everytime I listen to it I can relive the best concert I ever saw all over again. Should prince do old stuff or new stuff? The new stuff is incredible, so why should he just keep rehashing the old stuff (even if it was incredible too). The few critics who criticise ONA Live are wrong. Prince did a greatest hits concert a couple years ago and it didn't get near the reviews the ONA tour got.

it sucks,.period. same old songs, he cant stop playing. take me wit u.rasb beret. hcudcm.its all a bit old. he has 2 much material 2 still give us this stale bread.he could have given us something off emancipation or gold or rave or chaos and d.hell he only gave us 3 songs from rainbow,whats up with that. good sound bad song selections. and had the nerve 2 say those who are here 2 get yo purple rain on u in the wrong house.s--t.he played every old song but that. we want new funk man give us a break on that old sh--.im out.

The general public isn't going to spend $50.00 on a Prince album regardless.

joelmarable said: "it sucks,.period. same old songs, hell he only gave us 3 songs from rainbow,whats up with that."

Not entirely accurate, as the set includes renditions of 6 songs from TRC : TRC, Muse, Mellow, 1+1+1=3, Family Name & Everlasting Now. (My apologies, if u find my pointing that out a tad pedantic! )


joelmarable said: "same old songs...bad song selections...he played every old song but that." (ie.Purple Rain) " we want new funk man give us a break on that old sh--."

There r new (or at least recent) songs (eg. Xenophobia, One Night Alone, Avalanche) plus several numbers that r not well-known by the general public & have not been played 2 death by Prince over recent years (eg. Extraordinary, The Other Side Of The Pillow, Strange Relationship, When U Were Mine, Sometimes It Snows In April, Anna Stesia, Joy In Repetition, 2 Nigs Utd 4 West Compton, & Dorothy Parker).

None of the afore-mentioned were hit singles so it would b hard 2 accuse him of pandering 2 the masses with this release. The inclusion of songs from the past is inevitable. Did u expect him 2 release a live 3 disc set comprising solely of unreleased music & songs from TRC, ONA, & Xpectation?! I scarcely think such a release would b likely 2 tempt the casual Prince listener 2 part with their hard-earned!

Had Prince relied heavily on the biggest hits of his career 2 sell the set, ur griping may have been more palatable. As it stands, i can count only a handful of his major hit singles out of more than 30 songs selected 4 inclusion. It's not as though the band r perfunctorily running through lifeless renditions of 1999, Little Red Corvette, When Doves Cry, Let's Go Crazy, I Would Die 4 U, Purple Rain, Pop Life, Kiss, Sign O The Times, U Got The Look, Batdance, Thieves, Cream, Gett Off, Sexy MF, The Most Beautiful Girl...etc.etc.etc.

jaypotton said:

The RAVE DVD was released less than 2 years ago.I know most fans dont seem to care much for it but it covers both of the areas you mention.Its loaded with nothing but the hits, and it is a visual experience.I wouldve liked to see the ONA show on DVD as well too tho.
I think ,in his own way, Prince is distancing himself a bit from some of the hits he has performed over the years,
and thats not necessarily a bad thing.

DorianGray said:

break it down!

My idea for a box set/live release would be five CD's.

One of songs and performances from the pre-Purple Rain era.
One of the mid-eighties heyday material. Purple rain through, say, Batman.
One of the 'symbol' era material.
One from the current tour; the best of ONA..
And one aftershow compilation from whenever.

When I think "box set", I think retrospecitve and all-encompassing. Something like the Cystal Ball approach, only all live stuff.

I like what we got though.

Fuck critics.

herb4 said:

City Lights...representing the eighties.