I didn't like it at all... it's been a fair old while since I've listened to the album as a whole but from what I remember I thought it was trying to be a bit too arty and religious (in the throwing it down down your throat way) for my liking. I did like one song off of it though... literally the one... I thought 'She Loves Me For Me' was quite good.

JaneyPoos said:

different people like prince's music for different reasons.
some love his love songs, some love his rock songs, some
love his reflective music and some dig his exploration of the
spiritual realm

i think TRC is illustrative of prince's questioning his own
spiritual self, and the relationship his music has with those
who he perceives as wanting to keep him and his art down.

Mindflux said:

alright... let's pretend for a moment you are right.

explain his use of the name goldstruck.

I have tried hard, very hard and so hard to like this album, but I can't, there is just so much filler and stupid Jehovah Witness messages. I can only listen to four songs on the album (They are 1+1+1=3, She loves me for me, Last December and The Sensual everafter, and I love their beats and musicality rather than their sentiment), and I must wonder, what was floating through Princes head when he wrote this turd fest.
What I hate about the Rainbow Children
1. He plays the slowed down voice of God (Most songs)
2. Extremist born again Christian sentiments
3. Anti - Semitism (Family Name)
4. Sexism (Muse to the Pharoah)
5. Stupid ass artwork on the sleeve
6. The fact is drags on for fourteen songs
7. The fact it proves how much of a narrow minded superstitious plonker he had come since his days of sexual liberation and dilettantism.
8. The fact he wa sinfluenced, by washed up born again Larry Graham (He makes Tony M look like Sheila E in comparison)

Now I know I am going to get some hate here, but save it for another thread, u don't agree, I respect that, but save your venom for somewhere else, otherwise if you can't stand the Rainbow Children either tell us about it. ( I am waiting for you Ernest and Imago)

cborgman said:

I've already explained it - you're so wrapped up in your opinion that you are failing to even acknowledge points already brought up. Its artistic licence - a play on words meant to allude to the rich, comfortable and materialistic masters. Like I have also already explained, the use of Jewish names (even though Goldstruck isn't one of them - but YOU are making the desperate link between gold struck and "gold hungry jews") may be because Jewish names, like African ones, were changed to suit the whims of the masters. Goldstruck simply follows on from the imagery and metaphor of Pearlman and Rosenblum. That is an entirely reasonable explanation of Prince's use of those names and you have yet to successfully argue against that. Simply sitting there shouting "He's anti-semitic, its obvious" is not substantial.

You are also guilty of taking things far too literally - this is art, literal is not always the best approach. You know when Prince sings a line like "I lassooed the moon"? Do you take issue with that and say "That's a load of crap - he couldn't possibly lassoo the moon!".....I would sincerely hope not, because that would make you an idiot! Again, its artistic licence, which is part of what makes art interesting. It is the same here, but you're being so literal and, in my view, only doing it to support your weak argument that Prince is anti-semitic.

But, instead of setting me old challenges, why don't you answer my original question, which is far more pertinent than the one you just raised - which was (and its getting tedious having to repeat myself) - if Prince is being anti-semitic, why does he use Martin Luther King talking about Jews and Gentiles and others coming together.

I've risen to all your questions - do me the courtesy of at least attempting to explain your view on this, seeing as you have managed to ignore it from when it was raised at the beginning.

cborgman said:

I've already explained it - you're so wrapped up in your opinion that you are failing to even acknowledge points already brought up. Its artistic licence - a play on words meant to allude to the rich, comfortable and materialistic masters. Like I have also already explained, the use of Jewish names (even though Goldstruck isn't one of them - but YOU are making the desperate link between gold struck and "gold hungry jews") may be because Jewish names, like African ones, were changed to suit the whims of the masters. Goldstruck simply follows on from the imagery and metaphor of Pearlman and Rosenblum. That is an entirely reasonable explanation of Prince's use of those names and you have yet to successfully argue against that. Simply sitting there shouting "He's anti-semitic, its obvious" is not substantial.

You are also guilty of taking things far too literally - this is art, literal is not always the best approach. You know when Prince sings a line like "I lassooed the moon"? Do you take issue with that and say "That's a load of crap - he couldn't possibly lassoo the moon!".....I would sincerely hope not, because that would make you an idiot! Again, its artistic licence, which is part of what makes art interesting. It is the same here, but you're being so literal and, in my view, only doing it to support your weak argument that Prince is anti-semitic.

But, instead of setting me old challenges, why don't you answer my original question, which is far more pertinent than the one you just raised - which was (and its getting tedious having to repeat myself) - if Prince is being anti-semitic, why does he use Martin Luther King talking about Jews and Gentiles and others coming together.

I've risen to all your questions - do me the courtesy of at least attempting to explain your view on this, seeing as you have managed to ignore it from when it was raised at the beginning.

cborgman said:

music is a form of art; there is no one interpretation for his use of the name Goldstruck ... but, Prince could be directing listeners to their own thoughts

Apart from any perceived antisemitism or anything to do with a message, apart from the bad production (the narration included) If the music was in any way original i could give it a marginal pass. But it isnt.

For me it was just a continuation of Rave, and every ill-conceived dimwitted and un-original album he produced in the 90's.

For me, other than the cover artwork, it has no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

I just posted in another thread that was comparing live to studio work my thoughts on this album. Other than your " NO redeeming qualities" assessment, I simply could not agree with this response more. I think the folks who claim this album is the height of originality musically have really overplayed that hand. To me, this is a "concept" album that is littered with a lot of retreads musically.

That being said, lyric debate aside, I will say I actually enjoy a few of these songs. (From the other thread, I think the live versions are better because there is no voice over and the music has a bit more energy). I rather like The Work and Last December from the proper album, and a few more of them in the live setting.

But I certainly don't consider any of it genius. I think when someone told us Prince was doing a "controvesial concept album" without a regard for pure pop song form/construction every Prince fan was salivating with excitement. I know I was. But the execution of this musically just didn't work for me. Mostly due to the reasons Violetblue posted. The melodies just aren't very compelling.

To each their own....

I love The Rainbow Children easily in my top 5 Prince albums.

muirdo said:

A master CD ... great work by P, the best CD he's done in the period 00 -09 without question...

My opinion to TRC:

One of Prince´s most creative albums & a masterpiece of musical art.
Hallelujah!

Mindflux said:

so then, why not simply use goldman, which is an actual jewish name? why use a comepletely made up name? and what imagery and metaphors are evoked by use of the names perlman and rosenblum, other than to denote jewish people? those are common jewish names. how are they creating imagery?

and what is the difference between "a play on words meant to allude to the rich, comfortable and materialistic masters" and what i am saying, other than you find it permissible to raise the image of the gold hungry and "rich" and "materialistic" jew, and i don't since it evokes the age old stereotype of jews?

this stereotype of the money hungry and money controlling jew is also a lot of how hitler sold nazism. he claimed the jews owned germany because they had taken all the german money, leaving the non-jewish germans poor.
[Edited 10/29/09 7:58am]

I have tried hard, very hard and so hard to like this album, but I can't, there is just so much filler and stupid Jehovah Witness messages. I can only listen to four songs on the album (They are 1+1+1=3, She loves me for me, Last December and The Sensual everafter, and I love their beats and musicality rather than their sentiment), and I must wonder, what was floating through Princes head when he wrote this turd fest.
What I hate about the Rainbow Children

1. He plays the slowed down voice of God (Most songs)
2. Extremist born again Christian sentiments
3. Anti - Semitism (Family Name)
4. Sexism (Muse to the Pharaoh)
5. Stupid ass artwork on the sleeve
6. The fact is drags on for fourteen songs
7. The fact it proves how much of a narrow minded superstitious plonker he had come since his days of sexual liberation and dilettantism.
8. The fact he was influenced, by washed up born again Larry Graham (He makes Tony M look like Sheila E in comparison)

Now I know I am going to get some hate here, but save it for another thread, u don't agree, I respect that, but save your venom for somewhere else, otherwise if you can't stand the Rainbow Children either tell us about it. ( I am waiting for you Ernest and Imago)

My opinion to TRC:

One of Prince´s most creative albums & a masterpiece of musical art.
Hallelujah!

I don't see how Prince's TRC can be considered "anti-semetic for this purpose."
Prince is of African descent. Africans are the mothers/fathers of all humanity, including all people who fall under the Semitic category (Ethiopians/Arabs/etc.)...therefore for him to be labelled as anti-semetic is for him to be labelled anti-himself

As for TRC in entirety, I think its one of his most conscious releases ever. I waited 4 the day that Prince would sing/speak to issues concerning African people, and finallly he did that, acknowleding that dimension of his self. Family Name is a powerful statement; think about it, the majority of black people in the USA have lost their original names to due the holocaust of enslavement.

But, TRC suggests something higher...a stronger deeper unity...which is likened unto the keys on Prince's piano black and white aka THE RAINBOW CHILDREN

1ness and pax.

I agree on one point,(Warning a bit of Judaica coming up) the Jewish names you mention are German Yiddish, mainly as many Jewish people held traditional Hebrew names until the 17/18th century, when in the 1780s sometime, the Empress Maria Theresa (Of the Holy Roman Empire) passed the Judentolerat, which gave many Jewish people in various parts of Germany and Central Europe civil rights, but encouraged them to become Christian, yet they could also buy a less Jewish sounding name than the Yosefs, Jacobi, bar Simon types they had at the time. Most of these names were German nouns based on the trade of the family eg Goldman, Silverstein, and the names of cities (Berg) and stone/castle (Stein, bruck) were bought in. For a big fee you got a flower name like Rosen (Rose) and Edel (Edelweiss) etc, hence names like Rosenbaum and Goldstein. Not surprisingly the names were popular (Although some Jewish people had Europeanised names from the medieval period (Rothschild dates back at least to the 1550s). But the 1800 saw the majority of Jewish Europeans adopt names that ended with stein, er, berg, man and baum. Unfortunately the Christianisation option was a way out for many Jewish people and they converted to Christianity in droves, including many of my ancestors (Even today my family lies about and says they were Native Americans) when it was clearly obvious from their names and photos they were Jewish at one stage. So that is why many American and English Jews have names like Goldstein and Pearlman.Famous converted Jews included Karl Marx and Heinrich Heine being two examples, also Benjamin Disraeli's father was a rabbi.
Even in England, Jews changed names further, common Anglo Jewish names include Brown, Green, Smith, Black, Harris, and Raven.

I also agree Jews were active in slave trading, so were most Africans in Africa who sold whole tribes of vanquished enemies to slavers. There were also Black slave owners in America until they were outlawed in the early 1800s in most states.
[Edited 11/1/09 2:06am]

so were most Africans in Africa who sold whole tribes of vanquished enemies to slavers. There were also Black slave owners in America until they were outlawed in the early 1800s in most states.

I hav read books, but there is some mention of it, by Simon Schama in his History of England series. I can't list any more names or authors as I have read thousands of books and are not about prove myself to the radicals who deny that Black Africans were themselves involved in the slave trade. Some Fiction works like Roots and Queen by Alex Haley refer to it. There is another book about the History of the Jim Crow south, called Trouble in Mind by someone with a Jewish name beginning with L. It mentions that many light skinnedmulattoes and quadroons (Free people of colour) could own slaves up to ablout 1820 when state law forbade it.
Interesting how a lot of historians are Jewish. And besides was it not the Jewish people who were the best to blacks out of all the whites. You have to remember 100 years ago in the south, they hated Jew as well. They were called Semites and non Christians. Also don't forget there was the lynching of Leo Frank in 1914, a Jew not a Negro. Also the 1964 murder of the 3 civil rights workers, the 2 white ones were Jewish.