Huggiebear said:

For the most part, I agree with all of the above. However, I will say that I love the actual music. Some of the guitar work is awesome and I love the vibe of the cd. I do not like the lyrics and other things you mentioned above. I wouldn't call Larry washed up as he is an accomplished musician, however I am against all the JW religious crap. I enjoy listening to it from time to time, but I usually have to "clench my butt-cheeks" when listening to the lyrics.

fenderbender said:

fenderbender! I totally love your post Your review of this album is so real and honest. It describes my feelings and I could never have expressed myself like u. Thank u 4 this post. I truly hope Prince reads this thread and your post especially.
I love RC. I play it about as often as u. It is so uplifting. Musically it gives me that feel good feeling from within.
When RC first came out I tired listening 2 it, but it was 2 different 4 me, especially the narrative voice at times.
Once I joined Prince org and read the many posts on RC, I tried and still could not understand why people liked this album. One day while walking, it hit me, I totally understood what fans of the RC were talking about. I have been a true lover of this album and it is one of my favorite Prince Albums

pennylover said:

Because it was written by somebody who actually understands music and can hear the individual nuances that most people miss. Great post!

Oh and to the donut who said that Prince can't do "concept" albums - most of his albums have been concept albums and, generally, the best regarded too.

Mellow Mellow is several many quanta more sexy than than, er, Rippopgodazippa at least...

mrsquirrel said:

Cool ! Haven't listen to this since..I don't know when !! Thanx !

I like The Rainbow Children. It's not in my top 10 but nowhere near the bottom 10 either. The music was different for where Prince had been up to that point and it was great to see him change his game for this CD. That's classic Prince right there, evolving musically. For the lyrics, they didn't bother me at first because I never took them seriously and I'm a Christian. I looked at this album as a story that had a narrator and each song was a chapter. I didn't hear anything JW-ish on it until a couple years after I brought it kinda "hit" me and then I understood why folks got so mad about them and I got a little upset for a moment but then I had to get back to that "story" mindset in order to listen to it again and now I'm back to not taking it seriously and enjoying it.

To me, if there was ever a CD where we had an idea of where Prince was in his life, this was that CD, for better or worse.

2 bad u 4.....

It's quite possibly my favorite Prince album and one of his most musically fruitful periods. TRC along with N.E.W.S, ONA Piano and Xpectation are "criminally" underrated.

Mindflux said:

Well perhaps I haven't been paying attention all these years. While some of them could be considered attempted concept albums they fall seriously short of the mark for what I would consider to be a concept album.

But perhaps I'm wrong, so educate me. Which Prince albums are concept albums, and what are the concepts?
(aside from TRC of course, which is obvious).

That's simply not true, by any measure. Every single list of best / favourite / popular / recommended concept albums you'll find, every single article, blog, review, diatriabe, essay or conversation I've ever read or engaged in regarding concept albums all have one thing in common - Prince doesn't feature. Unless you have some other measure of 'best regarded' in mind?

And did you really need to drop an insult in too? It's shit like that that kills this place and stifles intelligent conversation. Wouldn't it suffice to just disagree?

Dave1992 said:

-----
Co-Sign Dave I think a lot of people either don't remember or were not even born when a lot of Christians believed Prince was the devil in the flesh .

A lot of fans did not care about what Chritians had to say about him back then but, know the shoe is on the other foot (LOL) Kind of funny that both sides miss that P has been looking for something for a long time he was never anti-chrisitian or pro-evil he was just serching and I am amazed at how many people missed the religious messages in his music prior to the Rainbow Children. That being said I think it is one of his best musical recordings
[Edited 10/22/09 12:37pm]

Huggiebear said:

-----
Stupid ass artwork on the sleeve
Wow the artwork is great black art.

Yeah, dunno how anyone can fault the artwork, it's magnificent.

NouveauDance said:

I totally agree with you. It's one of his best, I dare say it's his last great album cover at this point in time.

AsylumUtopia said:

More than a few consider Lovesexy and The Black Album to be concept albums with contrasting themes of light and dark.

purpledoveuk said:

Good grief, are you for real? Prince has always been known as black, he doesnt label himself. Despite what a lot of posts say, I love this album and anti semetic??? NO WAY Misguided??? Maybe. Prince is a musician, not a politician or a prophet. Give him a break and enjoy his work

I have to agree that he never labeled himself as Black before this lp. Its not a problem ,but he never did. Many Black artists start to get on the pro Blackness when thier sales fall. Prince waited forever to finally do Soul Train,then he shows up at the NAACP awards. And he does interviews with Spike Lee where he says "our people" .He would have never said that when the world was on his nut sack....Michael Jackson did the same..... hanging with Al Sharpton , saying they dont care about "us" , showing up at summer jam with Jay Z , collabing with Biggie.....

NouveauDance said:

I love the artwork too, but it has a disconnect from the music for me since it wasn't originally intended as an album cover.

the content of the album totally just not my thing.of course i applaud him for doing whatever he wanted musically and artistically.it has a few songs i think are ok.but this isnt an album i ever really play,its a personal experimental mess.

AsylumUtopia said:

Ahh, but this is going to be impossible, isn't it? You start by saying you have your own definition of a concept album (in a statement that infers it is of an incredibly high standard) and then concede that there are Prince albums that "could be considered" concept album, but they fall short of your quality judgement. So, does it matter what I tell you I think are his concept albums when you're own decisions already tell you what are and what aren't?

But, for most people, a concept album is "unified by a theme, which can be instrumental, compositional, narrative, or lyrical" - which, can be applied to a lot of Prince's albums. I suspect, given your position, that would not be sufficient for you and I would imagine (but don't know, unless you want to help me understand what you regard as a concept album) you're going to want to compare to Alan Parsons Project, Pink Floyd or any host of prog-rock outfit's concept albums.

However, for what it's worth, the 3 obvious contenders are LoveSexy, the symbol album and TRC (I don't think I need to explain the concepts to you - you seem intelligent enough and I'm confident you know yourself!). More "loose" contenders would be Dirty Mind (for me, his first concept album), Controversy, ATWIAD, The Black Album, Come, Emancipation and NEWS.

When I said "best regarded", I meant amongst Prince albums, not as compared with all concept albums.

And as for being offended by being called a "donut" - well, I apologise but, hey, you must have a hard time being around here if such a mild slur upsets you! I didn't agree with your post, but it was one of the more intelligent entries that you get around here and well-written which was, perhaps, why I was so stunned to see what I regard as an ill-informed comment with regard to Prince and concepts.

I don't think Prince necessarily presents himself as a "concept artist" but, amongst his pop contemporaries, he beats them hands down in his ability to change concept and sound from album to album and to suggest he doesn't, in my view, pisses on the legacy of one of music's undoubted greats.

That got on my nerves too because he went on "American Bandstand", "Saturday Night Live", and even twice to "Solid Gold". Hell, "Soul Train" should have been the main show to go on since that was where his audience was in those days. A performance of "Let's Work" during the height of it's popularity would have really got the asses shaking on "Soul Train".

By the time he finally did go on "Soul Train" it was the mid 1990s and music by 90 percent of artists was horrible. "Soul Train" had done become unwatchable. It was so bad even Don Cornelius had done left the show. Prince was the only thing I recorded on that episode and even his performance wasn't all that.
.
.
.
[Edited 10/23/09 7:00am]

Mindflux said:

Personally, I would also add Parade as a concept album...

yankem said:

I deliberately left off movie soundtrack albums as, arguably, they are supporting a narrative, rather than creating one, but it is a gray area, so to speak.

Let me fuel the fire here....Rainbow Children is his worst album EVER in my opinion.
Its praised by very few, and was one of his worst selling albums of all time.
It kinda reminds me of a stupid looking abstract painting that you cant make heads or tails of, but some people will search for any microscopic reason to praise it because it makes them look "artsy" and "intelligent".
I know that comes across as an insult to the ones who legitimatly like the album. I am sorry...but I cant help but to make that comparison.

purplecam said:

Open up your eyes! Distorted figures to make them look ugly, Prince looks like a drugged out vampire junkie and the lips on the guy with the drums are exaggerted like rubber lipped coon art of the 1930s. It would be great cover to promote a Hot Chocolates or Jazzbo nebermin Collins jazz show in 1936. This cover is an insult and a racist throw back.

jayquan said:

Im glad someone else pointed this out. I got ripped a new one for saying Prince never claimed "black" in his career until the 2000's.

Mindflux said:

Ah good, I wasn't sure if you'd reply. Not impossible at all, your answer was a lot more than I expected. I guess we all have our own measure of a concept album, and yes I guess my standard may be high, although I've never considered it to be particularly so.

Yes, it does, because I wanted to know. Not decisions really, just opinions - which can be changed - I haven't just decided and that's that, else I wouldn't have asked. My opinions, while usually based on something approaching rational logical thought (or at least I like to think so), are not set in stone.

Based on that definition I have to agree that it can be applied to a lot of Prince's albums. So now I must examine my definition of a concept album, and why I don't consider many of Prince's to fit it. Perhaps my definition is, as you suggest, influenced by over-exposure to 70's prog-rock. I guess those albums that I do consider to be concept leave you in absolutely no doubt as to what they are, and what the concept is. I don't get the same clarity of concept from most Prince albums. But to give you an idea, when I think concept album these are some that roll off the top of my head (so to speak) :

Roger Waters - Pro's & Cons, Radio KAOS, Amused to Death
Pink Floyd - DSOTM, Animals, Wish You Were Here, The Wall, The Final Cut
Rush - 2112
Genesis - The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
My Bloody Valentine - Loveless
Jethro Tull - Thick as a Brick
Frank Zappa - Joe's Garage
Deep Forest - Deep Forest, Boheme, Comparsa, Pacifique, Music Detected
Jean Michelle Jarre - Oxygene
Mike Oldfield - Tubular Balls


Yep, I’m wrong on that one, Lovesexy most definitely fits the concept category.

Symbol album was what came to mind when I was thinking of 'attempted concept'. I don't know if I can explain exactly why I think it falls short of the mark, it does after all fit the definition. Maybe the length of the album is part of it. It’s fairly lengthy, and if I recall correctly the longest single Prince album at that point. Because of that, and also because there are some songs on there that I'm not particularly fond of, it's one of those albums that these days I select songs from far more often than I listen to in its entirety. So I guess my opinion on that one could be better informed. I'll have to rectify that, I haven't listened to all of Symbol in probably 2 years, so it's due a spin. Having said that, if the concept were that cohesive to me, it would’ve jumped out at me when it first came out, when I would always have listened to it all the way through. The liner notes have always conveyed more concept than the music.

I get where you're coming from with the other loose contenders too, and have considered them as possibles or 'attempted' too. Dirty Mind for me (presuming the concept to simply be 'dirty mind') is only half a concept album then, because When You Were Mine, Gotta Broken Heart Again, Uptown and Partyup don't really fit the dirty mind concept. Well perhaps one could argue Uptown, and to a lesser extent Partyup, but they're really more youthful exuberance / non-sexual aspects of hedonism. (I currently have my main music collection - 56gb of music, in a randomised playlist, which I started listening to last week, and I can't quite believe that as I was writing this bit Dirty Mind (the song) came on. Over 12,000 songs and this one comes on now. I do love a good coincidence.)

Controversy is probably a better contender, much of its lyrical content would've been at least mildly controversial when it was released.

ATWIAD, I would consider tenuous. Presuming psychedelia to be the concept, really only the title track completely fits that category (Paisley Park & Raspberry Beret to a lesser extent), the feeling of psychedelia is more conveyed by that lovely gatefold sleeve.

The Black Album, Come, Emancipation, all obvious themes, yes, but with all of them, for me the listening experience is of a good bunch of songs, and not of a concept that is carried throughout. But then, by definition, having 3 discs each with 12 songs and each being exactly 60m long, is in itself a concept. Not, however a concept that imprints a lasting notion having listened to it. Whereas, with Joe’s Garage for example, I am in no doubt after listening to it exactly what it conveys.

NEWS, again, yes, but being an instrumental there’s less story to tell and less scope for concept, although there is something to it. Not much though, beyond the fact that it’s called NEWS and has 4 tracks called N.. etc Those tracks don’t evoke the four compass points to me, but maybe they did to Prince. Perhaps each one is built of sounds evoking experiences in a different location - like CNOTE, come to think of it. I get the distinct impression I’m digging myself into a conceptual hole here.

Purple Rain, Parade and Graffiti Bridge we can definitely rule out, but other than that, if we make the definition broad enough then we could probably argue that any of them have a concept. So I guess for me, to qualify as a concept album, after having listened to it I must get the unequivocal feeling that yes, I know exactly what he’s saying, this has been an all encompassing, totally satisfying, themed musical experience. Otherwise it’s an album of songs, which let’s face it, is the norm - which is fine - if the only concept is ‘here’s a bunch of great songs, listen to them’, what more do we need.

Ok, fair point then. They're probably among the favoured Prince albums.

Being called a donut wasn't the point, what the actual insult was is irrelevant. It's that it seemed the intention was there to insult, otherwise you'd have just disagreed. A one line response which includes an insult (however mild) is often indicative of a certain type of poster/orger. But you're obviously not that, which I must say delights me greatly. In any event I wasn't particularly insulted, but hey, you were disagreeing with me and my massive ego demanded retribution. Anyway, no big deal, but for future reference I prefer 'fucking idiot' - and you may consider yourself at liberty to call me such whenever you feel it applicable - because I know you'll tell me why, right?

Ah but you see, I don't think Prince changes concept and sound from album to album - he does it from song to song. Perhaps because I always expect any Prince album to display a myriad of styles and sounds I don't expect them to also have a cohesive concept, I don't listen for it and consequently the concept, if there is one, doesn't jump out at me. Perhaps it's also the knowledge that many Prince albums are far different to the original project - as we know there are songs that ended up on different albums to the ones they were originally intended for (or on no album at all). To me that suggests a fluidity and willingness to just release a bunch of songs because they're good and they work together, but it doesn't necessarily suggest concept. 'Just get the music out there' being the only concept. I guess one could also argue that such songs were removed from their original homes because they didn't fit the intended concept. Hmm.

And as you'll probably have gathered by now, it is not my intention to piss on Prince's legacy, just my seemingly unusual concept of what constitutes a concept album. The ability to create concept albums really doesn't figure that highly for me where Prince is concerned - his legacy is undoubted, no need for me to expand on that.

AsylumUtopia said:

That's a fantastic, open and thoughtful reply right there my friend, one of the best responses I've had in all my years on the org, so thank you and nice to learn more about you (I think we'll discover we are quite similar).

Unfortuntately, I'm seriously lacking in time right now to provide a worthy response but I had to 1) say thanks 2) say that I have all those albums you've listed (and then some, I'm sure, like yourself! oh and, by the way, I used to play in a proggy-space-rock band called Ozric Tentacles - know them?) and 3) your position and thoughts are much clearer to me now and I agree with much of what you say (and your mentioning of coincidence resonated too, hence my confidence that there will be plenty we agree about).

Got a gig to get to now (hence, the lack of time), but hope to be back to this soon - until then, take care

Huggiebear said:

The artwork was tight..... Old skool 'Good Times' art work. ery nice! The rest of the album.....bad. I was in the listening session at Pasiley Park and the look on everyone's face was "what the heck as that?"

Personally i think it's one of the best albums he's ever done or likely to do.
I still hear little nuounces to make the hair on the back of my neck stand on end...damn i love this album..