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PrintableI've watched the clip several times, at least the Controversy portion of it. Based on this discussion, I was expecting something terribly offensive, but I didn't see any anti-gay gesture there.
Consider: his hands had been glued to the guitar since the beginning of the song, and that gesture initiated a series of gestures, all of which were quick, brief, and hasty. It was like he remembered to start doing something with his hands, always quickly returning to playing the guitar. Also, he seemed to almost duplicate the same gesture with the other hand, a line or two after. Just my interpretation... | |
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PurpleHigh said: I've watched the clip several times, at least the Controversy portion of it. Based on this discussion, I was expecting something terribly offensive, but I didn't see any anti-gay gesture there.
Consider: his hands had been glued to the guitar since the beginning of the song, and that gesture initiated a series of gestures, all of which were quick, brief, and hasty. It was like he remembered to start doing something with his hands, always quickly returning to playing the guitar. Also, he seemed to almost duplicate the same gesture with the other hand, a line or two after. Just my interpretation... the gesture two lines after is to accompany the question "what's the word?". he's putting his hand to his ear to be able to hear the answer. The more I watch it, the more convinced I am it's intentional. | |
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Who even does that hand signal any more? It just makes him look old fashioned.  | |
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eelco said: PurpleHigh said: I've watched the clip several times, at least the Controversy portion of it. Based on this discussion, I was expecting something terribly offensive, but I didn't see any anti-gay gesture there.
Consider: his hands had been glued to the guitar since the beginning of the song, and that gesture initiated a series of gestures, all of which were quick, brief, and hasty. It was like he remembered to start doing something with his hands, always quickly returning to playing the guitar. Also, he seemed to almost duplicate the same gesture with the other hand, a line or two after. Just my interpretation... the gesture two lines after is to accompany the question "what's the word?". he's putting his hand to his ear to be able to hear the answer. The more I watch it, the more convinced I am it's intentional. I swear some of the people on the org write for the NEW YORKER ....  Da, Da, Da....Emancipation....Free..don't think I ain't..! London 21 Nights...Clap your hands...you know the rest..
James Brown & Michael Jackson RIP, your music still lives with us! | |
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NouveauDance said: Who even does that hand signal any more? It just makes him look old fashioned.
Bruno...
[Edited 10/15/09 2:56am] Da, Da, Da....Emancipation....Free..don't think I ain't..! London 21 Nights...Clap your hands...you know the rest..
James Brown & Michael Jackson RIP, your music still lives with us! | |
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LondonStyle said: eelco said: the gesture two lines after is to accompany the question "what's the word?". he's putting his hand to his ear to be able to hear the answer. The more I watch it, the more convinced I am it's intentional. I swear some of the people on the org write for the NEW YORKER .... F*ck that dude! better like that? [Edited 10/15/09 2:56am] | |
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ernestsewell said: Browzer said: Prince is a lot of things but one thing he certainly isn't is a homophobe.
That's some bullshit, don't be blind to it. In the last 10 years his attitude to his gay fanbase, and gays in general, have greatly changed to the negative. This is the most Bullshit comment I have ever heard on this site in the 5 years i've been here, what evidence do you even have? And to this compared to his 70's, 80's, 90's work? He spoke publicy about how he felt! Jesus man! Keenmeister |
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I think it's a little misjudged but I don't think it's intended as derogatory. The context of the song and that line in particular makes a difference. The song/line plays on the notion that he might be gay and doesn't rule out either option. If anything, I'm quite surprised he chose to emphasise that line. It suggests he's still 'alright' with people 'assuming' he might be gay.
I'd be more inclined to believe he was being homophobic if he'd done something like inserting an extra line; "Am I straight, or gay...DEFINITELY STRAIGHT AND NOT BOUND FOR THE FIREY PIT OF ETERNAL DAMNATION...Con-tro-ver-sy..." Or even if he'd shaken his head to signify 'NO' at that point. | |
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RumAndRaisin said: yeah but lets be honest, most gays are very feminate lol. they all do that camp hand thing lol
i don't. besides, for most gay men it is an act anyway. it did make me cringe. though i don't take offence, it won't stop me liking him, i generally disagree with most of prince's views. [Edited 10/15/09 3:20am] [Edited 10/15/09 3:21am] "Sisters and brothers in the purple underground, find peace of mind in the pop sound!" | |
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simonthetimes said: I think it's a little misjudged but I don't think it's intended as derogatory. The context of the song and that line in particular makes a difference. The song/line plays on the notion that he might be gay and doesn't rule out either option. If anything, I'm quite surprised he chose to emphasise that line. It suggests he's still 'alright' with people 'assuming' he might be gay.
I'd be more inclined to believe he was being homophobic if he'd done something like inserting an extra line; "Am I straight, or gay...DEFINITELY STRAIGHT AND NOT BOUND FOR THE FIREY PIT OF ETERNAL DAMNATION...Con-tro-ver-sy..." Or even if he'd shaken his head to signify 'NO' at that point. I see the point you're trying to make and it makes some sense. However , I still don't agree with the use of axactly that gesture to portray homosexuality. | |
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this, what we are doing here is what prince whats....Some Controversy! Simply  Keenmeister |
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eelco said: simonthetimes said: I think it's a little misjudged but I don't think it's intended as derogatory. The context of the song and that line in particular makes a difference. The song/line plays on the notion that he might be gay and doesn't rule out either option. If anything, I'm quite surprised he chose to emphasise that line. It suggests he's still 'alright' with people 'assuming' he might be gay.
I'd be more inclined to believe he was being homophobic if he'd done something like inserting an extra line; "Am I straight, or gay...DEFINITELY STRAIGHT AND NOT BOUND FOR THE FIREY PIT OF ETERNAL DAMNATION...Con-tro-ver-sy..." Or even if he'd shaken his head to signify 'NO' at that point. I see the point you're trying to make and it makes some sense. However , I still don't agree with the use of axactly that gesture to portray homosexuality. If prince was/is "Gay" would you be this pi**ed off.....no ..... Da, Da, Da....Emancipation....Free..don't think I ain't..! London 21 Nights...Clap your hands...you know the rest..
James Brown & Michael Jackson RIP, your music still lives with us! | |
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Having watched the performance I think this is an example of gross over-sensitivity. Such reactions only deepen so-called divides between people.
What I saw was merely a flick of the wrist. A flick of the wrist with the fingers pointed outward for about 1-3 seconds. It did not appear a stereotypical downward motion of the hand as I have seen it. I cannot believe we are discussing the equation of a flick of the wrist with homophobia. | |
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andykeen said: this, what we are doing here is what prince whats....Some Controversy! Simply
Might be true actually. The main difference however being that where Prince used to be on th liberal side of things, he is now on the conservative side. Not to his benefit I think. | |
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eelco said: andykeen said: this, what we are doing here is what prince whats....Some Controversy! Simply
Might be true actually. The main difference however being that where Prince used to be on th liberal side of things, he is now on the conservative side. Not to his benefit I think. You do write for the NEW YORKER ! .... Da, Da, Da....Emancipation....Free..don't think I ain't..! London 21 Nights...Clap your hands...you know the rest..
James Brown & Michael Jackson RIP, your music still lives with us! | |
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Browzer said: Prince looks gay
Even without make-up he'll "look" gay cause he so damn pretty!
he walks gay
Really? he sings gay in his falsetto
Falsetto is gay? 
But... I still don't get wat the problem is with the hand gesture thingy. Lemme see if I can understand this... Prince made a "gay" hand gesture. Is it offensive for someone to make a gay hand gesture in America durin a song? 
Honestly ppl...I don't get it I swear the words "HATER" is wayyy over-rated...smh | |
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eelco said: andykeen said: this, what we are doing here is what prince whats....Some Controversy! Simply
Might be true actually. The main difference however being that where Prince used to be on th liberal side of things, he is now on the conservative side. Not to his benefit I think. Come On, you and I both know this a crop of shit, when has prince ever done anything to his favour?! Ass-less chaps?! Changing his name to a symbol? where nothing but a pair of black Y-fronts on a album cover? Doing a simply hand jester for a song called controversy? Come on this is prince?!?! Sadly for the past decade he has'nt done anything to be considered non-PC, and one limp hand makes everyone go crazy, come it!! Its prince, lets not forget, this is way half of us love him.... Keenmeister |
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Oh for goodness sake. It was not a limp-wrist "ooh duckie" gesture, it was a twisting wrist "I'm undecided" gesture. You know like you do when something is 50-50? You put your hand out flat and rotate it left and right to go "Hmmm I don't know". Sheesh.  Just somewhere in the middle,
Not too good and not too bad. | |
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LondonStyle said: eelco said: Might be true actually. The main difference however being that where Prince used to be on th liberal side of things, he is now on the conservative side. Not to his benefit I think. You do write for the NEW YORKER ! .... I wouldn't have a clue to what the NEW YORKER is but apparently you do? | |
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eelco said: LondonStyle said: You do write for the NEW YORKER ! .... I wouldn't have a clue to what the NEW YORKER is but apparently you do? They branded prince anti-gay ..... then had a picture of obama dressed as a muslim fighter.... Go figure... Da, Da, Da....Emancipation....Free..don't think I ain't..! London 21 Nights...Clap your hands...you know the rest..
James Brown & Michael Jackson RIP, your music still lives with us! | |
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I agree that some are reading way to much into that gesture. Some people are definetly overreacting.
I don't think that Prince rehearses every gesture he makes during a performance. This was just a flick of the hand. And even if this ressembled a reference to the gay stereotype, it didn't have to be an insult. It might just have been a way to underline that such stereotypes still exist. I'm amazed that some believe that anti-gay gossip that was spread some time ago. You should know by now that Prince doesn't judge people by the expression of their sexuality. He might dissapprove the overt promiscuety of some gay public figures, but he is intelligent enough to know that people are not defined by their sexual disposition. | |
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LondonStyle said: eelco said: I wouldn't have a clue to what the NEW YORKER is but apparently you do? They branded prince anti-gay ..... then had a picture of obama dressed as a muslim fighter.... Go figure... Uh, no. They interviewed Prince and he expressed his opinions, which were that he didn't support gay marriage and, at best, didn't seem too gay-friendly. The New Yorker is a longstanding, very respected magazine with high journalistic standards and integrity. They did a controversial Obama cartoon that was satire, but it had nothing to do with the Prince interview. | |
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LondonStyle said: NouveauDance said: Who even does that hand signal any more? It just makes him look old fashioned.
Bruno...
[Edited 10/15/09 2:56am] Hilarious, he's killing me! 
Proud to be Bruno? OH NO!  Dancing helps relieve the pain. Soothes your mind, makes you happy again!!! | |
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Efan said: LondonStyle said: They branded prince anti-gay ..... then had a picture of obama dressed as a muslim fighter.... Go figure... Uh, no. They interviewed Prince and he expressed his opinions, which were that he didn't support gay marriage and, at best, didn't seem too gay-friendly. The New Yorker is a longstanding, very respected magazine with high journalistic standards and integrity. They did a controversial Obama cartoon that was satire, but it had nothing to do with the Prince interview. No No No ....satire is what i just posted, what you just posted is why we have satire...
Go figure.... Da, Da, Da....Emancipation....Free..don't think I ain't..! London 21 Nights...Clap your hands...you know the rest..
James Brown & Michael Jackson RIP, your music still lives with us! | |
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optimus said: RumAndRaisin said: yeah but lets be honest, most gays are very feminate lol. they all do that camp hand thing lol
yes im gay but not a feminate...but what u say is very true...infact 90% are camp and do that limp wrist hand gesture  ...so maybe it was princes way of breaking the ice and saying hi with a wave theyd all understand and appreciate more
[Edited 10/15/09 2:11am] exactly, but some gays have the 'only gay in the village syndrome'..they wanna keep all this gay stuff to themselves, how dare they steal the limp wrist! how very dare they! | |
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Browzer said: squirrelgrease said: Wanna bet? Gladly bet with you but on what? Hate to burst ur bubble but he has flamed Wendy and Lisa several times. States that in the "Possessed" book even ( I own it) saying they would "go to hell for their lifestyle" . Just because he appeared on Ellen don't mean 2 shits to me imho. [Edited 10/15/09 5:42am] Smurf theme song-seriously how many fucking "La Las" can u fit into a dam song 
Proud Wendy and Lisa Fancy Lesbian asskisser  | |
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eelco said: Probabbly gonna get flamed for this but who cares....(Might be reading too much into this but it's a actually a serious question, what do you all think?)
Watching the Canal+ performance I noticed a small hand gesture by Prince after the ''Am I straight or Gay?" line which I found awkward, childish and stereotypical. We know about P's less-then-enthusiastic attitude towards homosexuality but I found the feminine handgesture he made to describe homosexuality old-fashioned and stereotypical. Quite ironic that he's doing such a thing during Controversy, a song that was written to avoid , and even to break, such stereotypical thinking.  Ummm.. I think you're reading too much into it. Prince sitting and doing nothing can be interpreted as being 'gay' so obviously he has to do something extra for that line in the song. Change it one more time.. | |
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LittleSister said: I agree that some are reading way to much into that gesture. Some people are definetly overreacting.
I don't think that Prince rehearses every gesture he makes during a performance. This was just a flick of the hand. And even if this ressembled a reference to the gay stereotype, it didn't have to be an insult. It might just have been a way to underline that such stereotypes still exist. I'm amazed that some believe that anti-gay gossip that was spread some time ago. You should know by now that Prince doesn't judge people by the expression of their sexuality. He might dissapprove the overt promiscuety of some gay public figures, but he is intelligent enough to know that people are not defined by their sexual disposition. Wow, if someone has a different opinion than yours they are reading too much into this and are overreacting, nevermind their sincerity. Respect to your claim on absolute truth girl! Your argument of showing stereotypes is a good one though. Nest time I'll call Prince a sissy ni**er (or you a fries eating stupid Belgian) and use the same argument.... As far as your last statement: why THEN would he not support same sex-marriage? (not a rumor but in print in this now-famous NEW YORKER). After all,since people are not defined by their sexual disposition, what would make them unsuitable to marry??. On the point of not judging people: As I said before , Prince used to have some quite liberal lyrics. Not so much now but this discussion has paased by several times before.... | |
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As for the hand gesture I never really paid much attention to it but then again I thought it was bad dancing or choreography Smurf theme song-seriously how many fucking "La Las" can u fit into a dam song
Proud Wendy and Lisa Fancy Lesbian asskisser | |
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RumAndRaisin said: yeah but lets be honest, most gays are very feminate lol. they all do that camp hand thing lol
Yeah, I prance around like a pony all the time  | |
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