Prince on (not on) You Tube

Okay here's the deal. Here's my take on it. Prince stopped You Tube streaming any videos of himself, claiming IP copyright/ownership of his own image and rights to his videos. There are rumours (thanks Peach and Black Podcast) that he has reached an agreement with You Tube to allow his videos to be seen. I don't understand how that could work.

Issues:


The Online Channel -You Tube is the MTV of this generation.

I think Prince has severely under estimated the promotional power and importance of You Tube. How can people find out about Prince and see what he is all about? How can they see his videos and material otherwise? I am not talking about Prince fans who want to own his videos, and would pay money for dvds etc; I am talking about more casual curious music fans who are educating themselves with music. Its naive to expect people to buy your music or albums or go to see you in concert to find out about you as an artist in 2009. People don't even buy albums as much as they used to. You Tube is ideal to show and share viraly with your friends online what you are discovering. Lets face it, the world is changing, attention spans are quick and entertainment needs to be 'on demand' more than ever. If your material isn't there, people will move on. Prince needs to get with the program and realize You Tube isn't a distribution platform, its a music discovery tool and sharing memories and moments in history via search. Search,the most powerful form of information flow on the internet. (ask Google)> its a promotional tool. Prince we don't only want to see official music videos, we want to share all the great moments from your career, live, unofficial. It won't lower your stock, it will increase it and give newbies, new fans and people who aren't necessarily on Prince.org a chance to see and experience a taste of Prince historically on the medium that we are all using more and more. Online. You Tube is the MTV of this generation.

Distribution:

People shouldn't have to pay for streaming, that goes for Lotusflower and You Tube. If its a HD download TO OWN or a DVD to OWN, then fine, of course we should have to pay for it. Lotusflower.com I hear you ask? Its too expensive for nothing really tangible. If Prince published full albums/DVDs on there it would be worth subscribing to. Not sure if there are many Prince fans into Nine Inch Nails, but their distribution mechanism is way better than Prince's -free albums in lossless format and they have released 450 gigs of HD footage of 3 concerts, for fans to create DVDs) and NIN still make heaps of cash. But more than cash, what it does it gives fans what they want. The opportunity to share their artist online with material. We will still buy albums, we just want tangibles for cash. Streaming is a form of broadcasting like TV, it is a visual document of history.

Legacy:

Michael Jackson's passing showed the power of You Tube with an unprecedented amount of traffic searching through every bit of footage they could find on MJ when he died. Then people researched and found what they loved and it triggered them to go buy MJ's music and DVDs from Amazon or iTunes to OWN. Once again, I am sure people would love to see Prince footage, videos, interviews, concerts and specials up there. Its where people go to search these days and Prince has no online video legacy. There is plenty of his legacy in my computer and in my record/CD collection but honestly I am a big fan and have already bought everything I can find (within reason) but what about the casual fans of music who want to know more about Prince? Michael Jackson has shown up that Prince is missing out big time, or at least his new potential fans and fans of the future are missing out.

Thoughts? Any comments? Any issues we haven't thought of?

I've always found the youtube issue with Prince to be perplexing.
I understand the artist right to protect his music and receive compensation for his music being played.

But I also think at some point you have to step back and ask yourself if the additional exposure is harmful...or helpful.

The comments on the youtube clip (long ago removed) RRHOF guitar solo of While My Guitar Gently Weeps were overwhelmingly positive, and comments like "wow, I never knew Prince could do that... he's the man!" only increased his chances of converting fans and growing the 'Prince brand'.

I think as technologies get adopted, it's important for artists to integrate themselves into the new technologies, and not fight them. It's a losing battle otherwise.

Apple's move toward dropping DRM protection on files and offering enhanced digital artwork is a prime example of thinking outside the box.


Prince's lotusflow3r website , as pretty as parts of it is, feels like a relic of 90's. The video viewing 'globe' is gimmicky and darned slow and choppy. There's no easy retail shopping section of lotusflow3r, and the interface is just too proprietory, specific, and blah.
If he had worked hard to broker a deal with Apple the geniuses at Apple could have figured out the best solution for distribution from him. I believe it's now one of the biggest, if not THE biggest retailer of music now?

If the rumors are true that he's allowing videos on youtube, this is great. It would be nice for people to see Prince in action. There are plenty of video sites that harbor Prince videos, so most of us can find what we want anyways. But let's face it, youtube is the big one.


I wonder, if it's true that we'll be seeing Prince videos on youtube, if this is sort of like a nail in the coffin for that dreadful video globe on lotusflow3r.


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[Edited 9/27/09 23:29pm]

I wonder, if it's true that we'll be seeing Prince videos on youtube, if this is sort of like a nail in the coffin for that dreadful video globe on lotusflow3r. [/quote]

Totally agree. The only purpose that Lotusflower served was to cut out the middleman (Apple) and allow Prince to take the vast majority of the revenue share for this CD set. It was quite clever for him to release 3 CDs this way as it made the average purchase much higher per buyer $77. A very expensive album methinks. Sure we got painfully slow flash access to some videos (streaming only) and a t shirt, (which many people myself included have yet to receive in over 6 months).

I am happy to give Prince my business but Lotusflower served its purpose. We know see exclusive streaming rehearsals on Dr Funkenberry and elsewhere we see content and announcements being made. Prince also did the Target deal, but again, that's one retailer in one country. Prince has ignored the vast majority of the market. Other than hardcore Prince fans, who signed up for the $77, I expect other people downloaded it illegally, because of the lack of available options. I don't understand why he would choose to ignore the new fans, the new generation of people trying to discover his music.

No You Tube, no iTunes... It really feels like he is happy to only distribute to the core fans. Considering how innovative he was with the Internet in the early days in the 90s, he certainly has tried a bunch of different things but Lotusflower, he has shot himself in the foot in my opinion. How can he expect anyone other than core Prince fans to get access to his new music? Without You Tube, how can he expect to give his material exposure?

All these yrs with the same mindset...
IMO he's content with his decision and doesn't really care if he gains or loses through YT.

wow! an excellent intresting well thought out post!

and I agree with you I strongly believe that prince needs to open up a bit and share some of his stuff with us on YouTube I would LOVE to see some of his old concert footage from back in the day the only ones I saw was his why you wanna treat me was bad from 81 in DC and electric chair from the lovesexy era those were awesome and from pics I see on here of him doing live performances I'm sure there is a whole lot more to see and the best yet is still to come and it would be wonderful if he would let us see it online the lotusflower.com website gig is not working and he knows it to me it just seems more of a way to lure fans into paying cash (because he knows that diehards are going to pay up and shut up) with no reguard to the content of the site and giving the fans what they want to hear and want and I didn't want to join the website because of this reason to me that is greedy and it gives him a chance to be more of a control freak over his material but if he allowed his stuff on YouTube it would be a great promotional wise and create a new fanbase as you said I already see a new fanbase developing for MJ so why not prince????? if he doesn't than he's just erasing himself from musical memory and his legacy will be forgotten ok I'll stop now

Excellent post Funkylust.

That's a very good analogy, Youtube IS the mtv of today. Watching via laptop is also more environmentally friendly than turning on your flatscreen tv & cable box. It's also less isolated because you can leave comments, chat and make online friends about the things you're interested in. Word of mouth is still the best form of marketing.

Sure there are some drawbacks but sometimes you have to choose the lesser of two evils. While I understand some have the know-how and technology to copy whatever videos are online, I'm sure the quality sucks but hey, struggling students & poorer people also have a right to enjoy art don't they? So yes I agree it's a music discovery tool more than a distribution platform.

I didn't join Lotusflower because my first thought when I figured out how to get in, was "Oh he's gone all commercial now!" I paid once for an online annual subscription and that was for ATP Tennis tv. At first I got hours and hours of great tennis coz all the tournaments were in EU. However, thereafter the tour left for different time zones and they never put on SFs or finals videos for later viewing. So I stopped.

Although I was tempted to join the Lotusflower, everytime I've been back, they haven't changed the tv channel! It's still Kiss. The allure is therefore fading.

When MJ passed, Youtube provided me with viewing of known/unknown MJ music/videos which triggered me & the world to buy in a frenzy!! We all know that MJ topped the charts on ITunes worldwide hits and albums for weeks. Sometimes from no.1 right through to 80 or so! Yes it's a pity that it took his death to do so.

But what would happen if God forbid something happened to Prince today? What would he have left for his fans???? How could we mourn him together? Would his laywers still threaten anyone who posted his videos on youtube?

Prince has had some pretty traumatic events in his life in recent years, including the long fight with WB. I don't know if his motives are cash compelled, emotional or both but sometime, the fighting has got to stop.

This situation reminds me of economic sanctions against a country. A double edged sword. While they serve a purpose and make a political statement, it's the PEOPLE who can least afford it that get hurt the most.
[Edited 9/28/09 0:09am]

funkylust said:

I got this feeling that this tread is an excuse of a MJ fan just to give Mj credit of the You Tube/online succes, I mean You Tube legacy: MJ? LOL!

You tube was a phenomenon years before MJ die, MJ came back because he die, not because You Tube.


Now, you really are out of place with this comment:

"Michael Jackson has shown up that Prince is missing out big time, or at least his new potential fans and fans of the future are missing out."

Wow! MJ die and he showed Prince something?

Prince is a web pioneer, MJ not.

Prince invented the myspace/Itunes system, MJ not.

Prince came back in 2004 without You Tube help.

MJ death is sad, it's unfair that he came back like this, he was great, etc. but come on people don't try to twist the whole deal.

"Prince has no online video legacy."

Some people don't know google video.

aarontj said:

Hey there, no I am not a huge MJ fan, trust me I am a major Prince fan. I am just thinking about things from the point of view of a music fan out there trying to see Prince's work and I think not being on You Tube is hurting Prince in terms of lack of exposure.

My only point on MJ is look what happened when MJ died, millions of people flocked to You Tube and also to Facebook and Twitter etc talking about it and sharing their memories etc. I never said MJ made You Tube, relax! I think You Tube makes for a great way for people to reference MJ's videos online easily and quickly, discover and share music and much more. I think its just the way the world is today, if its not accessible online, people will move on. If you want to see Prince's videos, not being on You Tube I think is a mistake, especially for new fans discovering music. That's all. The point is, its a media channel and a significant one for the mainstream. Essentially an online one demand TV service. Imagine if Prince made a rule in the 80s that his music or likeness was not allowed to be televised at all.

I think U made some good points, funkylust.
Recently a student of mine came into class wearing a JIMI shirt. I asked him if he liked Hendrix, and he said he was just getting into him because he discovered "The Star-Spangled Banner from that concert thing" on YouTube. We talked about Hendrix until the bell rang, and he stayed after class to ask some questions. I gave him some songs to check out over the weekend.
Last Monday, he came in and said he'd combed Youtube and was "really feelin' Hendrix", so I burned him a CD of random stuff.
If he hadn't found Jimi on Youtube, would he be listening to my CD right now?


I do wish Prince would allow young people the same luxury.

I think Youtube, as it stands now, is a fantastic way to promote yourself as a musician. I agree that Prince should definitely have less of an iron first when it comes to people posting his videos.

But I believe he is concerned about the future... Inevitably, the quality and quantity of videos that you'll be able to upload to sites like Youtube will increase over time - the new HD clips that they have now are almost DVD quality already. At what point does it shift from harmless 'promotion' to down right 'free goods'? Not that there's anything wrong with free goods occasionally, but if artists can't be compensated for their work, then there will be less people wanting to become artists, and the standard of the 'art' will suffer.

Anyway, I'm kind of playing the devil's advocate here. I'm really sitting on the fence over this issue at the moment. The prospect of Prince coming to some sort of agreement with Youtube is very intruiging and it will be interesting to see how it all folds out.

toejam said:

Good points, but how is that different to "back in the day" when we used to video record our favourite music clips off TV or record music from radio countdowns.. It was promotional then and it still is..but is moving online. The difference with online is the community aspect of online...discussing online etc..

I hear you though on the HD..If You Tube had full concerts in HD comparable to DVDs up there, I would agree they could be purchased but only as downloads to own. I am not paying for streaming... Unless they did some kind of Prince channel that was subscription based...Maybe it could be worth something... it depends of the value for money. Lotusflower.com certainly doesn't cut it. If we had those options I don't think we would be reading this thread right now

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[Edited 11/20/09 7:43am]

funkylust said:

*My first day of posting. Yay!*

Funkylust,I think you could copy paste your entire post and send it to the man himself. Totally agree with everything it.
I am one of the "casual curious music fans".
I was never a fan of Prince, but I grew up with him. And I probably get stoned for saying this here, but my interest in Prince has been triggered ever since the death of the gloved one. In some cheesy way MJ's death reminded me to not take my 80's icons I grew up with for granted. Maybe it's also because I'm getting old, sentimental and 2009 really has been the summer of death. But I really hope this silly guy stays around for some time. And maybe it is superstition, but I feel like not forgetting them will keep them alive ... and there is the Tube!
So I tried to find everything about Prince on YouTube ... If i couldn't find it, I used the google search video and digged deeper. And you know what? All this free lurking around actually made me BUY his stuff. I even bought a damn biography (together with the one about MJ), I even bought Purple Rain and some music DVD's (together with Moonwalker) and I recently bought LotusFlower. I even bought a couple of songs through Itunes. As I said, I was never paying much attention to Prince before (due to a very bad concert experience in the nineties, I even decided I really hated the guy; standing in the rain in a crowded stadium, in the back so I couldn't see shit, afterwards getting sick and that ass hardly played more than an hour).
But now I'm trying to pay more attention to him; the internet is kind of a customer guide, what songs do I like and which ones not.I do think I will buy more of his music.
But going to his concerts? No way. But he's an interesting guy to follow, even if Marvin Gaye is my all time hero.

mzkqueen03 said:

Um, I don't think the point was to NOT BUY... the point of his post was about EXPOSURE.

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[Edited 11/20/09 7:44am]

mzkqueen03 said:

Thanks for, uh, clearing that up.

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[Edited 11/20/09 7:44am]

Doesn't Google own Youtube now? Google can easily afford to pay Prince royalties for tracks played on youtube. This is surely the deal they've struck IF the rumour is true.

I think we will have a Prince channel soon. Maybe people won't be able to post any old video but if there is something to watch, people will be happy.

Apart from the royalties aspect Prince has changed a lot over the years and if I were him, I would probably not want videos of myself from 20 years ago splashed around the net. Particularly because his values have changed. As the artist and producer he should have a right to choose what IS broadcast. I'm sure he has enough footage though to keep us happy.

Or how about a monthly video of him jamming in rehearsals like the Dr. Funkenberry audio release or just doing a track the fans love.

Don't be shy Prince, out of the closet now! We would like to see you doing what you do best. On the one hand, the net does make for an isolated world, but on the other it also connects people globally. One big happy family!

Imagine... in a far off remote corner of the globe where poverty rules, some young child sees your video and it inspires them to follow their dreams. Maybe that child is the next Jimi Hendrix, Michael Jackson or even YOU!

Well his vids are on there but without the audio so might as well give a complete package and forget about any royalties.

aarontj said:

You're right, I never thought of that thanks. I just got to see PR at the Superbowl! Wow huge place!!!! Quality of the video was like hell but the Purple lights...oh so pretty. I love that guitar in the shape of the symbol. Funky:-D

1013NIGHTLIFE - Welcome! I am also here because of the passing of the gloved one. Grew up with both him and Prince. Actually always preferred Prince but fell out of love with both many years ago. Rediscovering is so much fun! Bless the g-loved one. He woke up so many of us. Music is an eternal language. We never forget it.

Bohemian67 said:

Thanx! Glad you understand me! The gloved one's death really made me cry. I remember I just heard the news and my husband came home at 23.30 and I said "MJ's dead". And he looked at me like I was crazy for being upset. Thank God I could wake up another friend at 24.00 who was equally upset.
I did some snooping and I see you're from Holland too!
By the way; did you go to that Prince concert - I think i was '89 or 90 - don't remember exactly, and it was in Feyenoord Stadion Rotterdam?
I really really hated that concert and after that I really thought Prince was a jerk, he didn't even play a "toegift. But after MJ's death I kind of forgive him.

And yes ... you can find a lot of stuff with google video ...

did he make a vid for bob george .. jack u off .. head ? wonderfull ass? 1 2 the revolution will b utube-ized ...

funkylust said:

"If you want to see Prince's videos, not being on You Tube I think is a mistake, especially for new fans discovering music."???

So now you are saying that You Tube is more important then Yahoo, google, Daily motion, MTV.com etc.

The web is not You Tube, I think you are talking about demographics, the people who goes to You Tube, but do you know that there are people who search other engines?

What You Tube got to do with legacy? Nothing.

chocolate1 said:

"I do wish Prince would allow young people the same luxury." ?????

I'm sorry to say this bro but "young people" must be stupid if they can find a Prince video in other search engine.

You Tube is not television, You Tube is a trend.

Once again: GOOGLE VIDEO

Imago said:[quote]

The comments on the youtube clip (long ago removed) RRHOF guitar solo of While My Guitar Gently Weeps were overwhelmingly positive

I just searched it and theres 4 different clips, including one thats been there for almost 2 years.

aarontj said:

Dude, you keep going on about Google Video. Who do you think owns You Tube?

funkylust said:

Dude, so is that the case, You Tubbe does allow and have P videos.

There's no point for your post anymore.

aarontj said:

Uh, "Bro"?
Sorry. I'm a woman.

Oh, and I guess U "told me".

chocolate1 said:

yeah I "got told" as well my whole post doesn't mean anything

funkylust said:

Your post meant a lot to me. Spot on! I don't know what's the point of this aaron; just debunking for debunking's sake?