sms130 said:

Dude, MAKE UP YOUR MIND. If it's about ownership, getting a piece of the profits is NOT the issue.

sms130 said:

No, it isn't. He isn't selling those concerts, he isn't releasing those songs, etc. He isn't getting any money from those sales because HE AIN'T SELLING IT. He can easily fix that:
- release deluxe editions of CDs with outtakes
- release CDs with previously unreleased album projects a la Dylan's Bootleg series
- release an Archives set like Neil Young
- release unedited concerts on CD/DVD

And he'd make A TON OF MONEY and PLEASE HIS FANS. And in the end fans can only spend X amount of money, so bootleggers would starve.

sms130 said:

Not true. Most of it was known, few of it wasn't, and of the unknown stuff there wasn't anything surprising, IIRC.

funksoldier said:

WRONG. Plenty of times it was his band and his entourage and his management and his record company that kept him in line. And even then there are numerous points where any sane person just wonders why the fuck he couldn't just put in a little bit of effort.

HonestMan13 said:

You seem to have inconsistent positions. First, you make the solid case that Prince and only Prince is looking out for his interests and as such, has taken the rightful position of locking down all bootlegs, and not releasing concerts.

But then you say you have a collection of bootlegs, and in your eyes that makes you "even" with Prince. This implies that Prince screwed you in some way.

I don't see how you can have both positions.

daPrettyman said:

I agree. There was a rumor going around a long time ago, that Prince was behind some of the bootlegged material that was being (leaked) and made available to the public. People from HQ know just what I'm talking about. But that gossip diidn't last long.

Dayclear said:

I don't think Prince was behind it, because once Prince took WB out of the loop, outtakes pretty much dried up to nothing.

I agree with one thing Bart said about bootlegs:

Prince is not losing any money from the sale of bootleg concerts because he does not release those concerts for sale. He cannot say, "Hey, anyone that buys the boot of a 21 nights show is costing me money because they didn't buy MY release of a 21 nights show".

I got hold of the Monaco set this month. I would have paid for an official release in a nice case. It's as simple as that really.

Very good thread by the way ernest.

RodeoSchro said:

I only wish Prince had the wits of someone like Amanda Palmer: http://bit.ly/2nHeQo

Which BTW also includes this:



And then there's this: http://bit.ly/wx29g

But of course that involves this:


For someone like Prince it should be SO FRIKKING EASY to make money. Tons of money. And yet he always misses the boat. Always. It's quite astonishing, really.

.
[Edited 9/30/09 7:51am]

iloveannie said:

Exactly. Instead some girl on YouTube gets to post an exclusive video. Or some lame gossip blogger gets a rehearsal track. Dumbass stunts instead of a business model.

I think this all comes down to the fact that we can't really relate to Prince's thinking. It's not just a case of why does he sue fans? Why does he close things down? As someone argued here I suppose it's his prerogative because he believes in his own artistry. However it is just thr frustration of "Why wouldn't you Prince?" or "If it was me I'd do this or that" for example 400,000 see the 21 nights concert, well that DVD would be an easy sell. It's not just a case of we so desperately want the product (Which we do) it is just "Why do you piss about Prince?" "|What exactly are you holding out for?" This is not necessarily about us telling Prince how to go about his business but some things are so glaringly obvious things to do you just wonder what on earth he is thinking.

emilio319 said:

A few years ago, they were releasing TONS of 2-disk CDs of their shows in nothing more than a brown wrapper w/ the date and city stamped on it. It was their "official bootleg" series while on tour.

"Things Prince Would Never Do" for $500, Alex.

There's a very simple way Prince could embrace the bootleg market and even profit from it. He already has a website, he could add to it a trading forum for members only, allow trading of bootlegs amongst members, even have rules like 'no outtakes', 'no soundboards', audience recordings of live gigs only (this way NONE of the material would ever compete with his possible future releases), he could pay attention to the forums to find out which shows or even parts of shows were the most highly sought after, then dig through his vaults and produce high quality releases of those shows and sell them to club members knowing they will buy it because it's one they've already expressed love for in inferior quality. Convoluted? Yeah, I know. It also makes too much sense for Prince to ever consider it, but, if he did this I would finally join LotusFlow3r in a heartbeat, (we ALL would, wouldn't we?)

As far as outtakes... is there really much overhead in compiling a Crystal Ball 2 and selling it directly to fans? The music's already recorded right? We don't want it "redone" anyway so just hire somebody to put the package together, print the amount of copies that is sure to sell out, sell it online till it sells out, then on to the next one... All of this can go on in the background while he continues to focus and work on new material. More $ for him, more music for us, and good will and cooperation between Prince and the fans would be priceless!!

djThunderfunk said:

As unifying as that sounds, it would NEVER happen. Prince is like the fat cat in political cartoons with the dollar signs in his eyes, carrying a bucket in his mouth that says "Bootlegs" on it.


There's always a cost, but with the first CB online sale and fiasco, he's better off just putting it together, and putting it in stores. I'd settle for one or two FULL CDs of outtakes. The thing is, Prince has a deal w/ WB (if it's WB material and most of the good stuff is), that if they release anything, he has final say over it. It's why ULTIMATE didn't have "Erotic City" on it. The person compiling the ULTIMATE CDs wanted to also put things in chronological order, but Prince wanted them divided up how you see them now.

That's why I've said before, and I DO NOT WISH DEATH ON PRINCE (for those idiots who project their own hatred onto me), but it will take Prince dying before we REALLY see the releases we want. And if he's all "I don't count years, so I'll live forever", it's pretty sure we're fucked in never getting the things we desire. And really....just the outtakes fans want would cover what.....3 CDs? maybe 4? How hard is it to release two 2-Disk sets to "clean up that part of the bootleg market"? Leave the live stuff alone, cuz he will never be able to control that. I don't mind giving Prince my money for those outtakes. I'll gladly pay for them, and let him have the profits. Until then....

ernestsewell said:

A lot of the arguments here are based on the idea that Prince could make $$$ if he embraced the bootleg market. What's missing is that Prince may well have reasons that have little to do with $$$ (unhappy with the quality, wants to save some ideas for later use, has lost interest in a particular project and is focused on the next one).

If Prince wants to be very selective about the product he officially releases, it doesn't really matter that we'd be willing to pay him for that product.

ElCapitan said:

No, he can embrace it by cleaning it up. I wish I would never have to download a set of outtakes again if he'd just release them. He knows the fans have them anyway, some have paid for them. But if HE put them out, clean copies, just put a bunch of stuff on a few CDs, THAT would be him at least acknowledging a fans need (as he stated in 1999), he'd make the money, and we've have great copies of the hissy compressed mp3 stuff we already have.

It's not about the quality, it's about his stupid and lame mantra of "living in the past", and no thinking about the past in lieu of getting old. That idea is old as shit, and makes him looks stoooopid. Yet didn't he tout MPLSound as a hearkening to his 80's sound (which it's not)? Isn't he the one who keeps pulling Wendy, Wendy & Lisa, Sheila E or any other of his 80's cohorts into play with him when he's doing a bigger public appearance; or even work on a song or two on an album (Planet Earth)? He dips into his past more than the likes to admit.

Just 1 disk of quality outtakes that the fans really want would sell twice as much as his supposed success of LotusFlow3r-at-Target release. The market is there, he's just refusing to tap it.

RodeoSchro said:

Are there any circulating bootlegs that were created after 96 or so?

daPrettyman said:

None that I can think of, and if there are, it's a small handful. The last post-WB stuff to leak was outtakes from Emancipation. The only "boots" from post WB was live stuff.

ernestsewell said:

That's the last thing I remember.

Yeah! Genesis did this as well, on their last tour... They hired a company to do so! (can't find the site anymore though.) Even a Box with all of the Concerts for a lot of freaking money! But for a fan, worth it!

We don't even want a great looking artwork Prince... just press, put it in a cardboard sleeve... set the date... and SELL! easy as pie!

FOUND the site!

http://www.themusic.com/s...ican%20CD:

The Who did the same a couple of years back!

what was the point of the 'send yoru boots to Prince" thing

Nice post.

ernestsewell said:

10 years later he still catches shit for the mess that was Crystal Ball. Granted, it was a mess of a release, but I doubt it left him with a feeling of "this is something I need to do more of." You know if he released 500 songs tomorrow, folks would bitch about all the songs he didn't release.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to have official releases of all the boots. At the same time, it's obvious that Prince can barely stay interested in his current releases (he lost interest in Purple freaking Rain in less than a year), so I'm not shocked that releasing boots from years past isn't a priority for him. But if you want to lead this week's "Prince should open the vault" campaign, well, good luck with that.

ElCapitan said:

Yeah because he's has to be in the mood for that one. He already moved on from Lotus as soon as Jay Leno was over.

paisleypark4 said:

He was done with it before the final Leno show. Why else would he perform a song from Planet Earth while promoting LotusFlow3r?

Long time ago I saw such a great discussion here. Great thread!

paisleypark4 said:

Um.....I believe when Jay was ending his show, Prince performed a song from Planet Earth, not LotusFlow3r. He moved on from Lotus the day after it came out, practically.

Prince's released music is boring. Any true Prince fan knows that Prince's true genius music is the unreleased songs and live concerts, audio and video.

Stealing from the rich isn't really stealing. It's the price the rich pay for being more rich than 99% of people. It's a small price to pay.

funksoldier said:

I hope Prince tracks you down and sues you.