Watch out. Here comes the snobs...

Back then it was the classical snobs who were rejecting jazz as real music.

Now these folks will recite to you all the rules that have to be followed in order for something to be considered jazz. Haven't these folks ever stopped to consider that the reason Jazz isn’t nearly evolving like it did back in the 30s/40s/50s/60s is because of this ridiculous snobbery? The greatest musicians had to move over to Rock, Soul and Funk to find new ways of being free.

Take off the blinders and listen to music without bias and you will enjoy life so much more.

What does that have to do with my post?

What does that mean Supernova?

Supernova said:

Hehehe. You can set your watch to these predictable worshipers who've intellectualized jazz to the point where it's lost its original focus; that being, FREEDOM of expression, freedom from rules, and freedom from racism at a time when African American’s were barely accepted in any other forum.

Back then it was the classical snobs who were rejecting jazz as real music.

Now these folks will recite to you all the rules that have to be followed in order for something to be considered jazz. Haven't these folks ever stopped to consider that the reason Jazz isn’t nearly evolving like it did back in the 30s/40s/50s/60s is because of this ridiculous snobbery? The greatest musicians had to move over to Rock, Soul and Funk to find new ways of being free.

Take off the blinders and listen to music without bias and you will enjoy life so much more.

Do Americans spell genius differently from the English or something? That's the only thing that bugs me about the discussions re Xpectation - pro and anti camps are spelling genius "genious". And we criticise Prince for his 2s and Us.

I don't hear Madhouse on this. This is 1000 times more genious. I hear more Miles Davis than MadHouse! Go Prince.
Thanks you for this wonderful gift.

Supernova said:

Hehehe. You can set your watch to these predictable worshipers who've intellectualized jazz to the point where it's lost its original focus; that being, FREEDOM of expression, freedom from rules, and freedom from racism at a time when African American’s were barely accepted in any other forum.

Back then it was the classical snobs who were rejecting jazz as real music.

Now these folks will recite to you all the rules that have to be followed in order for something to be considered jazz. Haven't these folks ever stopped to consider that the reason Jazz isn’t nearly evolving like it did back in the 30s/40s/50s/60s is because of this ridiculous snobbery? The greatest musicians had to move over to Rock, Soul and Funk to find new ways of being free.

Take off the blinders and listen to music without bias and you will enjoy life so much more.

Brendan said:

AMP has several threads about that, including one about Orgers gushing that Prince is now officially a real jazzman.

Aerogram said:

I just think it's odd that people keep comparing this record and Princes' other forays into jazz (Madhouse) to the musicians who basically created the jazz genre. Miles, Monk, Bird, Mingus, Bud Powell, Dizzy, Ellington, Max Roach, Kenney Clarke, Oscar Peterson, Art Blakey and on and on. Why even bother to compare Prince to these people? These people are better jazz musicians than Prince, well duh.

And for the record I think the album starts off a little slow. However, as a whole it's a nice listen. It's better than both version's of 24 (Madhouse '88 and the 94/95 NPG version). And best of all he didn't try to put lyrics to the music.

Aerogram said:

I just think it's odd that people keep comparing this record and Princes' other forays into jazz (Madhouse) to the musicians who basically created the jazz genre. Miles, Monk, Bird, Mingus, Bud Powell, Dizzy, Ellington, Max Roach, Kenney Clarke, Oscar Peterson, Art Blakey and on and on. Why even bother to compare Prince to these people? These people are better jazz musicians than Prince, well duh.

And for the record I think the album starts off a little slow. However, as a whole it's a nice listen. It's better than both version's of 24 (Madhouse '88 and the 94/95 NPG version). And best of all he didn't try to put lyrics to the music.

Brendan said:

AMP has several threads about that, including one about Orgers gushing that Prince is now officially a real jazzman.

I can only take AMP in small doses, as it's just filled with too much addiction and depression. Yeah, there's heaps of obsession at prince.org as well, but at least there isn't as much of that ultra-depressive spirit.
[This message was edited Mon Jan 6 20:19:41 PST 2003 by Brendan]

Aerogram said:

Prince is a musician. He just pulls more crayons from the multi-tiered box than most.

He's also using classical and fusion in his music, does that mean he is now a classical or fusion artist? It's just ridiculous these labels. They are SO limiting.

I find it humorous that jazz has become for some this unapproachable title, as if it can only be voiced in hushed tones for those who have sweated and toiled their whole lives in the same box. People who think this way tend to have low self esteem and are hoping that people pay more attention to their jazz label than the quality of their work.

When someone describes "Xcogitate", "Xotica", or "Xosphere" as jazz, they aren't making a judgement about their quality, they are stating a simple fact and trying to help communicate what they sound like. Unfortunately the obsessed get all confused and think that you're now saying that Prince and Miles are now the same exact artists.

I wrote a similar challenge addressing some of the jazz snobbery in AMP a few days ago (probably my first post there in a year or more), but I got nothing but agreement and no one stepped up to challenge or debate the issue.

I can only take AMP in small doses, as it's just filled with too much addiction and depression. Yeah, there's heaps of obsession at prince.org as well, but at least there isn't as much of that ultra-depressive spirit. But having said that, there are some very smart people over there (Aerogram being proof of that), so that's why I continue to visit 2 or 3 times a year when new releases, tours or other big news hits.

--
[This message was edited Mon Jan 6 20:19:41 PST 2003 by Brendan]

Ifsixwuz9 said:

I hear you. But those great musicians you list have influenced just about everyone that has come after them, even people who’ve never heard them or don't even have the slightest trace of jazz in their music. So I don't see it as all that unusual to state that Prince has incorporated many of the giants of jazz into his own work, just as he incorporated James Brown, Sly Stone, and Jimi Hendrix. And, yes, when Prince was just starting out some people thought it blasphemous that he was getting compared to those artists.

Why do you have to be as great as Duke Ellington to understand and use his stuff? It’s been done a million times by marginal musical talents, much less a musical genius like Prince whose been listening to this stuff from his father’s piano from the day he came out of the womb.

I don't hear Madhouse on this. This is 1000 times more genious. I hear more Miles Davis than MadHouse! Go Prince.
Thanks you for this wonderful gift.