Riverpoet31 said:

I'd have to mostly agree. SOTT was a bit of an anomaly as it never slips into corniness, melodrama or preachiness.

I do like alot of the other songs (Colonized Mind, TRC...), but lyrically they do nothing for me. So, as songs I love a lot of them, but as 'social commentary music' I think there are a lot of other artists out there who have a lot more to say that I don't find objectionable.

I'd rather listen to Prince than any of them, but Prince hasn't lived in anything resembling my world for so long, so he has nothing to say to me about it.

Imago said:

YES!!! Someone new to school.

Let's Get It Started.

If evolution is a fact and not a moronic theory, then where are the inbetweens?

Where are the half men half apes and the half fish and half birds? If we evolved gradually shouldn't we still be evolving? Or are we perfect? If we have finally reached perfection and no longer need to evolve then why can't we freakin' fly yet? Why the hell do we still get Ebola and cancer and the freakin' swine flu? And which of these damn monkeys decided that we would stop evolving?

How the hell do you go from an ape to a human with no inbetween? Also. Which one of the possibly millions of apes' bodies was the one that decided it was time to change and how the hell did all of the apes around the world at the time know to follow suit? Did they get together and say "we need to stop this damn knuckle draggin and stand the hell up. They all agreed and began evolving. Which of the damn apes gave the go ahead to start evolving? There are so many holes in evolution you could drive a damn planet through it. You don't know me from a damn monkey on the moon and you don't have any idea what I know about biology. As soon as you interject the possiblity of an Intelligent Designer all the whimps get scared because deep down they know they will have to face God one day. What's really dangerous is telling our children that they evolved from damn apes so that they act like animals.

Oh and kiss my ass.... Twice
[Edited 9/29/09 9:07am]

sgmusic said:

oh lawd. Your post is so sad

I love this



I actually feel very sorry for creationists.

Now that's intellectually stimulating.

It responds, and I quote "Your post is so sad"

I bet you were and A student.

"Your post is so sad" with little laughing heads falling off of chairs. What are you 12?

For anyone interested in reality and who is able to string two sentences together....

Don't make science and evolution out to be the same thing. Science is of God. evolution is not.

Did evolution create depth or time or gravity?
What keeps those as well as the other laws of nature in

place? What keeps them consistent so that people like

you have the time and luxury of thinking up ways to

doubt their Creator.?

How does a body in Switzerland know how to have a baby?

If the instructions are written in the DNA, and all of

our DNA are tied together who put the instructions

there? Why haven't females evolved to the point that

they no longer feel the pain of childbirth?

The reason that humans and animals are called

creatures is because we are created. How does a

souless mass of atoms know what's best for it? How

does a bird know that it needs to fly? How does a frog

know that it should evolve it's skin color to make it

harder for it's predator to see? Even if we as humans

decided it would be best for us to fly about like birds

do we have the capacity and ability to make that

decision and begin the processes of evolving towards

that goal? Where and how does the process start?


If evolution is fact what is the point of love?
If it is as some say a defense mechanism or to preserve

life what is the purpose of it? What is the purpose

for any emotion for that matter? What is the purpose

of beauty or music or anything intangible or outside of

the realm of biology?

Did evolution help any of the creatures that have died

in the history of the world preserve life? If all

animals and creatures are dependant upon one another

for survival then can there ever really be a domimant

species? Can these "evolved" beings ever evolve enough

to become the greatest species on Earth if they depend

on the scavagers and insects and insignificant

creatures of the Earth to survive? If they depend on

the meat of lower life forms to live?

Shouldn't they be self sustaining? How can animals

devour their own supposed evolutionary trail? If we

evolve from the same organism why do so many varieties

of plants and animals still exist?

If we all derive from the same organism, why wouldn't

we all evolve the same way? What happened to the apes?

Did they get left behind us? If they did get left

behind in the chain of evolution why are they still

here?

Believing in evolution allows you to temporarily

mentally hide from the fact that you have a Maker and

have to answer to Him for your actions.

Evolution is evil, it's confusion and it's nonsense.

Darwin knows it now and you will too one day.

Hopefully sooner than later.


Yall's great great great great great great Grandmomma chillin in the woods.




I've wasted enough precious time on you losers. Moving on...
[Edited 9/29/09 9:55am]
[Edited 9/29/09 9:59am]
[Edited 9/29/09 10:32am]

sgmusic said:

I can tell a lot about you from this post. First of all, you don't seem to understand what a scientific theory is. A scientific theory is one that takes a collection of FACTS and assembles them into a coherent THEORY that explains things. The theory of evolution is based on an immense set of facts.

Where are the in-betweens? Well, the fossil record is full of them. I suppose that you have never heard of Australopithecus. There is no half-bird half-fish because birds evolved from reptiles. Ever heard of Archeopteryx?

Your explanation of evolution is so convoluted. I am not sure how to work with it. There was no ape that "decided" one day that it wanted to become a human. I feel bad for you that you even believe this. Over the course of millions of years, so many mutations can occur, some of which give an animal an advantage in a particular geographic area, and you end up with new animals. I guess that you operate within the <10,000 year old earth mindset, so maybe this is hard for you to grasp.

The most ironic thing about your post is the end; let me quote you:

"What's really dangerous is telling our children that they evolved from damn apes so that they act like animals.
Oh and kiss my ass.... Twice"

Are you serious? You did not just attack something that allows children to "act like animals" and then close with a "kiss my ass.... Twice? Do you see the problem here? I hope so.

Darwintheorgangrinder said:

Yawn...Where's the irony? - somebody tells me to shut my mouth I tell them to kiss my ass.

"Kiss my ass...Twice" some Prince fan. Doesn't even know a Prince reference when it hears one.


Where's the half reptile half bird now genius? All it takes is a bunch of old men digging up some bones and naming them to convince you that you evolved from apes. If we evolved from apes then there should be no apes left on Earth!!!!!
Mutations? That's bullshit. Which incidently did not evolve from cow shit or horse shit.

By the same token - if birds evolved from reptiles there should be no reptiles left on Earth!!!


I'll give you one thing. You're excellent at regurgitating man's wisdom.
[Edited 9/29/09 13:57pm]
[Edited 9/29/09 13:58pm]

sgmusic said:

Come on already, you said that you were going to "school" me, but you have brought nothing to the table. There are educated people (even some scientists) who deny evolution. They have a number of arguments that they use. You use none of them. You use the arguments that celebrities like Steve Harvey use. I suggest that you at least find the more sophisticated (but just as false) arguments against evolution, such as irreducible complexity (which is an argument that works well against evolution novices)

Alright, now to address the oft-repeated "why are there still monkeys" or your new spin "why are there still reptiles." This argument makes sense if nothing is known about evolution. Evolution does not state that every member of a particular species becomes a new species one day. What happens is that a some members of a species (usually in a geographically isolated location, think of Darwin's finches) have an adaptation that makes them better suited for life in that area than other members of the species. The less suited members die out, and the adaptation becomes part of every member of the species IN THAT AREA. Over thousands of generations, enough adaptations and subsequent rounds of natural selection occur that you have a new species. However, what happened to the apes in one area has nothing to do with the apes in another area. Therefore, you can have apes and species that evolved from apes.

You seemed to Poo-poo mutations. I would advise against this. Even the most adamant creationists admit to this, mostly because there is no way around it. Mutations, or adaptations, have been OBSERVED countless times. In fact, there have even been cases where 2 groups of fruit fly eggs (all of the same batch) were isolated from each other. After a couple of years and generations the fruit flies of the same parentage had evolved into 2 distinct species that could not reproduce with each other.

And then you asked me this: "Where's the half reptile half bird now genius?". I found this interesting because you were just asking why there were still apes if apes had evolved into humans. Your objections contradict one another. I will tell you where the "half-reptile half-birds" are, they are extinct. There have been at least 5 Archeopteryx fossils discovered. Transitional fossils are all over the place, as I have already cited.

By the way, don't attack me as a Prince fan. I have not said anything about your level of fanmanship (I don't even think that is a word, but oh well).

Darwintheorgangrinder said:

Wow, that's alot of words. I apologize for losing my cool and cursing but I don't take kindly to being told to shut my mouth especially about things related to God. Let me see if I can simplify this.

God created all things. Now whether or not they mutate is not the issue. Unlike most people who believe in evolution I admit that I do not know everything. Come to think of it neither do these so-called scientists which is why their flawed thoughts are called theories.

Mutations do occur. Cancer is a mutation. Siamese twins are a mutation. However I do not believe that we or any other life form evolved from the same single celled organism into complex beings. I believe that God created all things. I believe that God created science. You sir or madam as the case may be are free to beleive whatever you like. This is free will. However since it is obvious that you feel the need to argue your point I would suggest first that you do some research on the opposition. Read some literature by Lee Stroble on intelligent design and realize that creationists are not mindless followers without respect for science. We believe God created all things and that all things have a reasonable intelligent explaination. The big bang theory is absolute nonsense in my opinion.
It would take more faith to believe that an explosion of random molecular matter in space created and sustains life as you and I know it. Where did this exploding matter come from? There isn't a scientist alive or that has ever lived that can explain it. Most evolutionists and atheists want to explain things using their own theories because I believe they have a need to control or to have a grasp on the things that they do not understand. It is simply fear.

This is a Prince forum and if you enjoy Prince music then cool, although it is quite bizzare for an evolutionist to frequent a Prince forum.

Romans 1:20 (New International Version)
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.


Love the One who is Love
The One who gives us the power
The One who made everything
Elephants and flowers
The One who will listen when all others will not.
There will be peace 4 those who love God a lot. - Prince

***

Love the One who is Love
The One who gives us the power
The One who made everything
Elephants and flowers
The One who will listen when all others will not.
There will be peace 4 those who love God a lot. - Prince

***[/quote]


this is SOOOOO what's up. i never thought i'd see Romans 1:20 quoted in a Prince forum! they can't handle the truth, but give it to 'em anyway. i won't even chime in on the evolution discussion, its quite comical to me, but props to you sgmusic!!

sgmusic said:

Surely an argument for evolution and against intelligent design or just that little story from the bible

(Oh, and if you want to know about inbetweeners - just check out the fossil record - those gaps are gradually getting filled and in real terms we've only been looking for a very short while).

vivid said:

?

sgmusic said:

I know an awful lot about creationism, or its more recent title, Intelligent Design. That should be obvious since I was the one that brought up Irreducible Complexity, which was the main argument that Behe used in the Dover trial. I assume that you are completely aware of the Irreducible Complexity argument and its shortcomings. As you may or may not know, the Dover trial went terrible for the creationists.

Of course you are entitled to your opinions concerning everything. You (or anyone) are entitled to believe in creationism, Enteleches, elan vital, alchemy, astrology, or any other pseudo science. However, science is not about opinions. Your opinion that the big bang is nonsense has ABSOLUTELY no bearing on its truth value. The big bang theory, just like the theory of evolution or the germ theory of disease, is based on facts that have been demonstrated and repeated time and time again. It may make you uncomfortable, but that doesnt make it false.

Your inconsistency is striking. In an earlier post, you said that mutations were "bull shit." After my response, you totally changed your tune and admitted that mutations do occur. This is what generally happens to creationists when confronted with the onslaught of evidence that evolution has to offer. It is what happened to Behe in the Dover trial when he eventually admitted that teaching ID as "science" meant that science would have to be reclassified to the point to which astrology would have to be considered science.

Your comment about my presence on this forum exposed a narrow-mindedness that concerns me and makes me question why I am debating with you in the first place. I have been a Prince fan for 17 years. I was 12 when I became a fan, and at that time knew nothing about religion or science. There are no rules for being a prince fan other than enjoying his music. Unfortunately, your comment suggests that you believe that there should be some sort of litmus test to be a Prince fan. After my wife (then my girlfriend) went to a Prince show with me, all she could do was comment on the diversity of people that were at the concert. Black, white, Asian, Latino(a), young, old, fat, skinny, ugly, beautiful. There is no typical Prince fan.

It is a rule of mine to stay off of the Politics and Religion forum. My education is in political science, and I have also have a vast knowledge of economics and to a lesser extent religion and science. Despite this, I stay away from the forum (and all online politics forums for that matter) because I can write a highly detailed and explicit explanation of my side of the argument and I get a reply like "well, that's a lot of words
[Edited 9/30/09 10:52am]

Darwintheorgangrinder said:

If you could read as well as you try to write this discussion may well have been over several posts ago. I said that mutations were bullshit with respect to why certain species, which we are supposed to have evolved from still exist today.

Too much schooling is a dangerous thing.

Have a nice long life, and one day when you die be sure to bring your bones and books and see if you can explain to the Lord why he should spare your soul. For the well educated, your soul is your - mind will and emotions - or to break it down further - what makes You, You. Which by the way is another thing evolution scientists can't explain.

Love you

***

sgmusic said:

So you are essentially saying that I am illiterate. Very clever. Let me quote your original comment about mutations:

"Mutations? That's bullshit. Which incidently did not evolve from cow shit or horse shit."

Now, here is what you just claimed:

"I said that mutations were bullshit with respect to why certain species, which we are supposed to have evolved from still exist today."

Now of course, I can read, that is obvious. It is also obvious from these two quotes, given in context, that your recent claim does not match your original claim.

It seems clear by the way you finished your post that you are finished with this debate. That is fine. I will keep going if you like, or stop. I am not doing this for you. I am doing this for others who may not know much about the topic. You made odd claims in favor of creationism; claims that few educated creationists would dare make in public because they are elementary. I, on the other hand, answered all of your claims, and attempted to give a brief explanation of what evolution is. Hell, I can even tell that you were pretty impressed with my explanation, but you didn't want to admit it.

Here is some advice. Don't get in over your head. Especially don't get in over your head right after you act in a cocky manner by claiming that you will "school" somebody. You really brought nothing to the table in this discussion. You are opposed to evolution, but you don't even know what it is. That is obvious from your account of it. An educated creationist would not make the claims you made, because they are way too easy to answer. You kept changing your position, and you committed the "moving the goalposts" fallacy at least twice after I adequately responded to your claims. I do not claim to be any sort of genius, but I always make sure I know what I am talking about before I say it.

In the future, I look forward to reading about your take on Prince. I won't be surprised if we agree on a lot of Prince stuff. I read your most recent thread about Prince. To me, it seems like you were a bit rattled by this discussion, and you needed a new outlet. I will leave that one alone, even though I am pretty sure it was directed towards me.

Darwintheorgangrinder said:

Darwin,

Thou dost protest too much...

For the record - just because you put something in type and post it does not make it so. The Word of God is the only intelligent argument I need to make.
Incidentally, my other posts have nothing whatsoever to do with you or this conversation.

We ought to cut this conversation short - otherwise people will think we're just trying to earn a flaming folder!

Peace

***

sgmusic said:

no. Just.... no.

Imago said:

Who asked for your opinion punk? You let your boy handle all the heavy lifting alone and now you want to chime in? Be gone, you and your adolescent smilies.

Definately not his strong suit....He needs to stick to songs about: fuckin', pussy, love, heartache or braggin'.

He hasn't written a song as powerful as Pink's Mr President...DID YOU HEAR ME???, I JUST COMPARED PRINCE TO PINK!!!

That's how bad his social commentary music is....