legna said:

Yep I know his music. Just find it depressing and you haven't really argued much of a case against against that.

Admittedly that is what some people like.

But I don't think it's feel good music. More like wallow in your own misery music...

They were probably smiling because they were leaving
[Edited 9/23/09 14:42pm]

PurpleMusiq8 said:

Is that the whole story?

Cause stuff like this always makes me curious - I have a lot of people that I work with who are sometimeish! They see you and wait for you to nod, or say hello and acknowledge them and if you don't they do it firstthey walk right by you (I now ignore these people). Maybe P is like that?!..although having said that TR could have opened his mouth if he really wanted to speak to him.
[Edited 9/23/09 13:47pm]

pepper7 said:

you are right. in its own way, it is like the blues. a wallowing will go...

legna said:

Yeah, and maybe up quite a few notches!

PurpleMusiq8 said:

It's funny to see how fanboys still compare a artist with more then 20 records and a 30 years career with an artist whith less then ten albums and no more then two decades on the spotlight. (The same thing happen on Radiohead forums during the "Creep" cover).

Let me put it this way:

Prince sixth album was Purple Rain, the 80's best album, a #1 record for 24 weeks. NIN sixth album was Year Zero, a failed album both with critics and on the charts.

Prince ninth album was Sign o the Times, a instant classic praised as one of the best albums ever. NIN ninth record was, wait ... they only have eight records, and we all know how NIN career turn out after With Teeth in 2005.

To compare their achievments isn't fair for Prince, because NIN is a younger act, still Prince slamed Trent with more succesfulls albums, biggest tours and longer estabillity, it's a fact that Prince have more relevance on todays (this means this generation) music scene then Trent Reznor, just ask MGMT, MIA, Tv on the Radio, Wolfmother, Andree 3000, Of Montreal etc.

Prince ninth album was Sign O the Times, I mean, fucking legendary Sign o The Times!!! I wanna see Trent Reznor ninth album, hope it's a little better then that garbage Ghosts I–IV album.

aarontj said:

Although NIN's 20 million units sold worldwide isn't Prince's 100 million worldwide, I wouldn't necessarily say NIN is small apples in the scheme of things.



Broken, The Downward Spiral, and to some extent The Fragile are masterpieces in their own right.

I actually rank the Downward Spiral above most of Prince's catalog minus about 3 albums. Also, I've seen NIN as many times as I've seen Prince, and every NIN show was better than the Prince shows minus one in Florida that I saw, though one of Prince's afterparties came pretty damned close. But then again, we *are* talking personal tastes here.

Trent isn't the genius Prince is on any level. But I think Trent's strength is that he's quite critical of his own work, where I don't think it even dawns on Prince that he might have just written a piece of crap, like New Power Soul. If you put them in a room together, Prince would run circles around Trent no doubt. But listen to their released music, and in my opinion some of NiN's best moments give Prince a run for his money. I've been quite critical of both artist's more recent material, but they're both artist that have released music that profoundly moved me in various ways.

I don't think Trent's contribution to popular music pales in comparison to many artists--he holds his own.


But as far as the subject of this thread, I would say Prince influenced Trent and not vice versa.

Imago said:

My comment was regarding purplemusiq8 comment "the last few Prince albums have sucked. NIN never ceases to amaze me, both live and on record"

PurpleMusiq8 might be a hardcore NIN fan, beacuse he was one of the few who like NIN last albums.

Broken, The Downward Spiral, Pretty Hate Machine and even The Fragile are masterpieces, but is a fact that Trent is run of ideas after his fourth album, I mean can you say that With Teeth or Year Zero are masterpieces? right, let's not talk about the crap of Ghosts and the Slip.

Sure Prince album # 25 New Power Soul wasn't all that, still Prince was doing he best stuff on his ninth album, something really rare in the music industry, cause many artists dowfall starts at the fifth album, NIN is a very, very good example of that.

Even Prince 12 album, Graffiti Bridge, was an amazing achievment on sound and style. If you compare NIN 8 albums to Prince first 8 albums (in cronologycal order), With Teeth, Year Zero, Ghosts I–IV, The Slip can't touch 1999, Purple Rain, Around the World and Parade.

To compare a younger act to a older act all comes down to longevity, and things are looking pretty hard to NIN, I don't think Trent can even pull a Diamonds and Pearls (Prince 13th album) in five years.

I saw NIN live in 1994 and later on with the Fragile album and they were great, then I saw them a couple of years ago and it was boring and repetitive. A friend of mine went see them on Mexico city and she told me it was horrible. is hard to watch Trent faking anger and bitterness on the stage. Even Prince changed his live act after the 80's.

I saw my last Prince concert on 2004 with the Musicology tour and still was the best live act, even better then before.

But if we stick to critics, art historians, music experts etc. Prince beat down Trent in a second.

If we stick to sells, Prince beat down Trent in a second.

If we stick to the most influential today, Prince beat Trent in a second.

If we stick to their achievment on technology Prince beat down Trent in a second (when Prince was busy inventing the Itunes and myspace system Trent was selling out to the industry).

If we stick to lamest publicity stunt, Trent beat Prince in a second (twitter trashing).

If we stick to friendly artist with fans as desperate move to have better sells Trent beat Prince in a second.

POOK said:

POOK SPEAK WITH FORKED TONGUE!

AND POOK TOOK SOME OF MY NAME.!
[Edited 9/23/09 23:20pm]

aarontj, I won't even bother responding to most of your comments because they don't make any sense. I'm not sure why you came in here and turned this into a Prince VS Trent thread. I participated in this thread originally because it wasn't one of those threads, and I welcomed the opportunity of a discussion regarding two of my favorite artists without it turning into a hate fest.

I have no idea how you can compare "Purple Rain" to "Year Zero". For the record, I fucking love "Year Zero". I think it is an absolutely genius album and I even prefer it to "The Fragile" and "The Downward Spiral". For me it's his best work, alongside "Pretty Hate Machine". I would call it a masterpiece, yes. And I don't see it as being part of a contant career trajectory - I didn't like "With Teeth" at all, aside from 1 or 2 songs, so to claim Trent has "run out of ideas" is nonsense.

I liked a good chunk of 'The Slip' as well. For you to mention "Ghosts" doesn't make any sense either. It's an instrumental set and you can't even compare it with other music Trent has made, the same way you can't compare Prince's "N.E.W.S" or "Kama Sutra" with any of his contemporary work.

But that aside - what do numbers and numerological order of anything mean? It doesn't mean shit. It's a garbage argument that means nothing. I can flip that same exact argument on you - NIN's first album, "Pretty Hate Machine" is a million times better than Prince's first album "For You".

And, it took six albums for Prince to hit what many regard as both his creative and commercial peak with "Purple Rain". Many people regard Trent's creative and commercial peak to be his second album, "The Downward Spiral".

So using your twisted logic one could say that Trent is a better artist because he evolved to his creative peak faster and with fewer albums. You see what I mean? It's a nonsense way of looking at things.

And as for your insinuation that amount of time spent in the industry and amount of records released is somehow indicative of the value of the artist overall, I'll say this - do you know who Robert Johnson was?

I'm far from a NIN "fanboy", although I'm a big fan. I'm an even bigger Prince fan, in fact he's my favorite artist of all time. I actually think that it's pretty ironic that you're using words like "fanboy" but you're probably closer to being one than anyone else in this thread.

You jumped into an otherwise friendly thread and made it into "Prince VS Trent" as if you need to proclaim it to the world that Prince is the greatest artist of all time and nobody else can compare. That's what fanboys do. If somebody dissed Prince over on the NIN forum I'd expect a few gungho fanboys to go and make a few posts pretty much exactly like the ones you just made.

Wake up - we're on a Prince forum dude. For the most part you're already talking to huge Prince fans, so what are you trying to prove? Do you think that Prince is so amazing that he could never be influenced by someone that has come after him and been influenced by him in the first place? If you do think that, well you're wrong. Prince was influenced by NIN to some degree and many other artists that came after him too and looked up to him, like The Neptunes ("Black Sweat" being a very obvious example).

Imago said:[quote]

aarontj said:

Oh no!! Cus that's why I like Prince!!

I like all the crap!!

I like that he doesn't just give you the 'best' bits like an over-produced artist would.

I like that you hear all the 'real' stuff too!!!

Militant said:

Militant¤ every single comment:


So purplemusiq8 comment "the last few Prince albums have sucked. NIN never ceases to amaze me, both live and on record" and I turned this into a Prince VS Trent thread?????

I think your the one who doesn't make any sense. When some one compare NIN 8 albums to Prince 30 albums, you should be ready to come up with a carefull analysis about it.

"I have no idea how you can compare "Purple Rain" to "Year Zero"."

-Well year Zero is NIN sixth album, Purple Rain is Prince sixth album, why should we compare Purple Rain to the best Trent album?, I mean, Prince is a older act then NIN, it's fair to compare by they evolution in cronologial order. By the way if you fucking love "Year Zero", that doesn't make it a good record, but I guess you are one of those kind of fanatics that only cares about the critics when the reviews are good. I fuckin love Diamonds and Pearls but I know is not a masterpiece.

"For you to mention "Ghosts" doesn't make any sense either. It's an instrumental set and you can't even compare it with other music Trent has made, the same way you can't compare Prince's "N.E.W.S" or "Kama Sutra" with any of his contemporary work."

-I mentioned Ghosts generally because purplemusiq8 made a general asumtion about how Trent was more dated then Prince (wish is not truth by the way), but I guess you only allow that towards any artist, except NIN.

"But that aside - what do numbers and numerological order of anything mean? It doesn't mean shit. It's a garbage argument that means nothing. I can flip that same exact argument on you - NIN's first album, "Pretty Hate Machine" is a million times better than Prince's first album "For You"."

-You are right, Pretty Hate Machine is better then For You, even Broken is better then Prince second LP, sucks that Broken is just a EP, but Dirty Mind is better then The Downward Spiral for sure.

"And, it took six albums for Prince to hit what many regard as both his creative and commercial peak with "Purple Rain". Many people regard Trent's creative and commercial peak to be his second album, "The Downward Spiral". So using your twisted logic one could say that Trent is a better artist because he evolved to his creative peak faster and with fewer albums. You see what I mean? It's a nonsense way of looking at things."

-You are right, but it took Prince 15 albums to have a critics and sells downfall, NIN downfall started after their fourth album. Like I say before, it's all about LONGEVITY. Any talented artist can make 3 to four good albums. Not any talented artist can make 10 good albums, NIN is one of them.

"And as for your insinuation that amount of time spent in the industry and amount of records released is somehow indicative of the value of the artist overall, I'll say this - do you know who Robert Johnson was?"

-It wasn't a insinuation, it was me trying to not mix my preferences on the debate, I love Prince, but that doesn't mean that every single move that he made is brilliant, so unless that you are a art expert, a art historian, a music critic or soundscan, your taste doesn't mean shit only to your self. I don't like Bob Dylan, but I know his a very good artist, do you wanna know why? read a music history book. Is not my faulth that Prince have better reviews and better sells with more albums then NIN.

"I'm far from a NIN "fanboy", although I'm a big fan. I'm an even bigger Prince fan, in fact he's my favorite artist of all time. I actually think that it's pretty ironic that you're using words like "fanboy" but you're probably closer to being one than anyone else in this thread. You jumped into an otherwise friendly thread and made it into "Prince VS Trent" as if you need to proclaim it to the world that Prince is the greatest artist of all time and nobody else can compare. That's what fanboys do. If somebody dissed Prince over on the NIN forum I'd expect a few gungho fanboys to go and make a few posts pretty much exactly like the ones you just made."

Prince is not the greatest artist of all time, (I never said that by the way) but he sure is one of the greatest, and way over NIN (but that's got nothing to do with my comments). This stupid fanboy comment of you doesn't make any sense. What I say is: My comment was regarding purplemusiq8 comment "the last few Prince albums have sucked. NIN never ceases to amaze me, both live and on record" A comment that ask for specifics statements because the guy is comparing NIN 8 records to Prince 30 records career, I mean any one can make a comment with no explaination and no facts, a stupid comment with not a single notion of music kwonledgement, based just on taste. My comment was objetived and very impartial, with facts, not just I love this and that.

"Wake up - we're on a Prince forum dude. For the most part you're already talking to huge Prince fans, so what are you trying to prove?"

-Nothing, Im just debating dude, relax, atleast give me facts etc. (help me help you)
.

"Do you think that Prince is so amazing that he could never be influenced by someone that has come after him and been influenced by him in the first place?"

-No.

"If you do think that, well you're wrong. Prince was influenced by NIN to some degree and many other artists that came after him too and looked up to him, like The Neptunes ("Black Sweat" being a very obvious example)."

Another good example of NIN influence on black artists are Aaliyah, Tricky, Goldie, Maxwell, Saul Williams and M.I.A. (by the way this are facts), so I'm not sure what's your point is with this one? But I guess you like to put words on peoples mouths just to win a debate.

I don't have that many questions to you, just have one:

Why do you take it on me while purplemusiq8 made a totally abzurd comment with "the last few Prince albums have sucked. NIN never ceases to amaze me, both live and on record"? Like if they stared at the same time doing the same sound. If that not a hate comment I wonder what is?

By the way I'm a big, BIG Trent Reznor fan, I even own a copy of the David Lynch/Reznor radio interview.

pepper7 said:[quote]

Imago said:

Funny how NIN fanboys say this "Trent's strength is that he's quite critical of his own work" like if this was a good thing or a special quality, every time I see a Trent interview his more bitter then the last time, his obssesion with been the regular guy is taking the fun away.

I will resume this on Jack White own words:

"But that's the thing in pop culture now. Everybody wants to be like, "Hey, I'm just a regular guy like you. I get a six-pack and watch the game, just like you do." Every comedian, every personality on television-that's their schtick. Especially on reality TV. If there's one thing that I can't stand, which has become so popular in the last 10 or 15 years, it's the attitude of, "You know what? It's so great because so-and-so doesn't take themselves too seriously." It's like, hold on a second: I want my artists to take themselves seriously. Of course, I do. Why wouldn't I want that? Nirvana popularized that idea of, you know, forget about your bigger-than-life heroes and rock stars and cool, mysterious, backstage happenings. Kurt Cobain just came out and said, "Here I am. I'm a guy in a flannel."

I love Prince because he knows his very special.


Wake up people, the 90's are over.

"90's sucks, What's wrong with havin a good time?"

-The Wrestler.

Can we stop doing Trent and Prince threads? Prince fans cannot be rational when it comes to someone who insulted their master.

For those who ask who Reznor is: he is the guy in the pictures at Prince's house when he did that purple ticket contest. You know the one: the one you guys didn't get to go to.

For every Prince fan there is another person who thinks he sucks and is irrelevant. You guys OPINION is no more relevant than theirs.

I think they are both geniuses. Putting one down to raise the other up is ridiculous to me.

POOK said:

THESE ARE THE WAYS OF THE MUSICIAN

TO UNDERSTAND THEM U MUST LIVE AMONGST THEM.

Vendetta1 said:

Wow!! can you post that photo please!!

aarontj said:

No because it was on NPGMC. Anyone that saw the pic on there can verify that.

aarontj said:

NIN fanboy


lawd, I guess karma's a bitch cause I used to say New Power Butt Puppets all the time


NIN fanboy

Vendetta1 said:

Great post


I think it's natural to compare and contrast.
And though I think Prince is the only real genius among to two of them, this doesn't mean Trent didn't produce works that were brilliant.

As I've said, I rank Trent's best above most of Prince's best with the exception of 3 of Prince's albums.

And as I've stated before, it's objective.


Anyway you slice it, Trent doesn't fair poorly in these comparisons, but both musicians would probably agree moreso with you than anyone else on this thread.

Imago said:

Yeah, I agree with you, the 90's was all about hating the 80's, grunge and the alternative fans try hard to erase the 80's, so it's funny to see what happens to the 90's, I mean the 80s are the role model for today indie acts, Karma is a bitch.

I love music of all eras, I'm a 80's child but the 90's kick ass too, I'm NIN fanboy too

Prince is influencing Trent right because he says he is going to disappear and make his NIN fanboys wait.

aarontj said:

I've always thought the early 90's was about stripping away the excess and glam out of the 80s and allowing the nerds and rejects to sort of take over. Of course, all things become parodies of themselves eventually. Nirvana gives way to Creed and Seven Mary Three , and Goth/art-rock bands give way to Evenescance and other shit-tastic acts that claimed the title of the ubiquitous 'alternative' label.

I knew it was over after Metallica performed at Lallapalooza and Linkin Park ruled the airwaves.

I'm dying to see how this decade will destroy itself, since it's even more eclectic than the last, although more sickly from the file-sharing getgo.



90s to 80s edit
[Edited 9/24/09 21:54pm]

Imago said:

I agree with you, even I was into the let's stop been so materialistic and focus on the music during the 90's, you know , the whole deal about not trying to be a rock star, irnocly that became the adjetive of a rock star.

Metallica been in Lola was a down point for sure, but I think another down point was when artists like Billy Corgan and Rage Against the machine staring to belive their success. Do you remember Corgan trashing his fans? the men that was an example of anti-establishment was complaining about his low sales!! And RATM stunt at the MTV awards beacuse they din't win the moonman trophy, a pathetic stunt that even the most comercial 80's band will never dare to do.

Still it was a big surprise for me that on this milleium the indie scene took the 80's as their role model, and almost every single artist put Prince as their main influence, I mean the 90's rock scene was pretty hard on P, it's ironic that some of those 90's acts are giving him props today.

Nice chat.

aarontj said:

I agree!!!

aarontj said:

Yeah he (Kurt) had a sense of humour about himself and his music. He didn't take himself too seriously. Most of the other 90's Indie bands just take themselves far too seriously, whilst pretending that they don't give a damn.

They're all 'Hey, we're not bothered about being popular.. we're just doing our own thing and being ourselves..'

Yeah right! That's why you sound like every other Indie act on the planet..

Imago said:

Yeah all these people that 'don't fit in'...

Feel really sorry for them as they seem such a delicate minority unable to stand up to the rest of the world... I mean they are so brave battling it through feeling different and feeling alienated... There's only a rare amount of these people about. You never see them anywhere.. Shucks they must feel really alienated and like they don't fit in... Please, please give these people a voice.. they MUST get their message across...

Ahh they are such a minority.. you never see them anywhere...

Blimey at least Prince was a genuine alternative..

Whats with those NIN fans constantly whining about the Prince 'connection' in here?

Trent Reznor is musically a cheap rip off of Ministry, and lyrically an annoying poser not very different from all those 'hip' emo-bands.

NIN-fans are as annoying as Tool-fans: they take their artists SO seriously, dwelling in their shared misery, thinking those artists are so wise and 'important', when its about nothing more then banal posures.
[Edited 9/25/09 12:43pm]

If I hear another smelly teenager 'express' his or herself I'm gonna kill myself!!

KEEP IT IN!

We don't want to listen to all your angst and emotion all the time....

Stop taking the drugs and get out there in the fresh air and do normal things and then you might not have so much to moan about...!
[Edited 9/25/09 13:17pm]

Lol pepper7

Some people here seem to think that just because Trent Reznor is talking about things like depression, pain and addiction makes him 'more important' then people who dont touch these subjects.

The matter is: its how you deal with those subjects.

Reznor deals with them in the most blatant ways, coupled with his blatant take on industrial rock, its first of all toecurlingly pathetic.