blackguitaristz said:

You know, when All The Critics Love U In New York came out, I loved the song but was a little to immature to make the Jimi connection. Now listening to Prince, and looking back over time, you can see how Prince paid homage to Jimi in his lyrics. I think he was still feeling the whole "hippie" groove and vibe with Around The World In A Day. You really got me thinking..I have to be honest. I never made the connection with the "hippie" lyric in Extra Lovable....you are a musician, you will pick up on things like that...
[Edited 9/7/09 18:10pm]
[Edited 9/7/09 18:11pm]

kenlacam said:

blackguitaristz said:

Great thread! You guys are totally right! Think about it, Prince had come off from the first Prince album (I'm showing my age) and I wanna be your lover album. Dirty Mind, Controversy and 1999 were the best in giving Prince the rock edge! It was totally unexpected. I mean, back in the day, you just couldn't wait for Prince to release new music because you never knew what the album/cd would sound like. I think that Prince has been a genius when it comes to not allowing himself to not be pigeon-holed into one genre of music. Even Jimi couldn't do that among the brothas and sisters. Jimi was trying to transition but just didn't quite make it.

Jamzone333 said:

Thanx...

i heard prince was exposed to the beatles and 60's rock by wendy and lisa after purple rain, eric and allan leads exposed him to miles and coltrane. ATWIAD and Parade reflected the ïnformal school he was attending via associates. The 1999 references to hippies struck me as hostile for several reasons. For one Prince is a lower end boomer, too young to have truly experienced the drugs and sex of the 60's. By the time he became a star there were 60's holdovers getting rotation from day 1 on mtv (the founder was an ex monkey) making big money through branding ( Grateful Dead) and Hollywoods infatuation with 60's oriented films. The media (especially) at Rolling Stone was crawling with ex hippies, therefor the hippies had become the establishment. Prince's whole vibe back then was on some takeover shit, move over this is the new breed; who would have to moveover in order for the new breed to exist? the old guard, the hippies who pretty much ran the machine in the 80's.

ThreadBare said:

Good post, and I've just been saying that in another thread, about Adam Ant and the New Romantics.. that he wasn't setting a trend in his dress style but reflecting one that was already there...
[Edited 9/7/09 3:07am]

Interesting points everyone. I guess I never interpreted things quite the way some of you did and you may be right but I don't know. Prince has always been cryptic and illogical with his lyrics. As far as the Hippies being critics, I don't think most of the critics were hippies, and I also don't think the critics did anything to raise any antagonism in him, they generally loved him. Prince was said to have grown up on the 60's music and I always thought the stuff about people bringing the stuff to him was bunk. After all, he and Dez did their best to be a "black Rolling Stones". With Prince, he's hard to figure out sometimes because he says things just to say them. He ridiculously claims that Hendrix had no influence, and that the ATWIAD wasn't Beatles influenced and said something about how that kind of music wouldn't make it in the eighties. Prince just isn't a very nice guy and doesn't want anyone else to have any glory. Sometimes I wish he would just be normal and not try to confuse everyone.

Mmmm. Well actually Prince's refernce to hippies actually always annoyed me coz (And I'm not criticizing him) if ther is one person that is not a hippy it's Prince. He was was always too into God to be a hippy-he was never an age of aquarias or lets find a Hindi love God. I understand his connection in the sense of "Dont let establishment control me" but thats not quite the same as hippy in relation to where Prince came from. Wasnt he perceived as New Punk at the time?

I have read other articles here about Prince and the Beatles and how Prince doesn'e give credit.Well I dont think that is particularly fair-he has praised many people over the years. ATWIAD was only visualy influenced by the Beatles so I dont feel Prince has to give them too much credit. Also however much the Beatles music is timeless and good it is essentiallly the music of the George Martin interpretation. Prince was an arsey young musician at the time and he would recognise this ( I think today he would be far more gracious) as he was his own producer. I dont mean to start a Beatles thread but the Beatles solo work is in the main a bit crap and sooo arrogant

jcurley said:

Religious leanings aside, Prince's main influences were from the period of time most associated with hippies (James Brown, Sly and the Family Stone, Santana, Jimi Hendrix, Joni Mitchell and, yes, the Beatles). And their influence can be seen in everything from his musical choices to his visual and fashion choices.

As for the Beatles, ATWIAD owes more than visual approaches to them. The title track and "Paisley Park" are straight from Liverpool. As to his being more gracious in more recent years, I found it interesting that he denied having ever heard "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" until prepping for the induction ceremony.

Prince sometimes likes pretend that he sprung fully formed from the foam like Venus.

The Hendrix-relation is new to me.

But it always sounded to me on 1999 he was DISSING the music of the babyboomers / the ones growing up in the sixties by calling them 'Hippies'. So it was actually anti-hippie.

Just like the phrase 'its time for jazz to die, 4th day of november, we need a purple high', seems to say: you need this 'new' type of music (The Minneapolis sound on the 1999 album), instead of 'old fashion' music like jazz.
[Edited 9/7/09 9:47am]

The irony of course is, that later on he would embrace the psychedelic pop of the sixties (especially on ATWIAD, and too a lesser extent on Parade), as well as jazz-music (jazz-influences popping up on the Parade album, even more so on the Lovesexy album and the Madhouse-albums).
[Edited 9/7/09 9:49am]

jazz influence started earlier
sexy dancer piano solo by P is jazz influenced

I see your guys' points and they are valid, but to me the Hippie thing always sounded competitive. And let's remember, the hippies had mostly left that lifestyle behind by 82'. His jazz statements are also cryptic and senseless. His father was a Jazz pianist and he has always borrowed heavily from Jazz chording in his music, I've learned to play many of his songs and to me the chords almost always have a gospel, jazz feel to them, sort of unheard of in pop music. Anyway I reiterate that he's just not a very nice guy because I recently have been communicating with Mark Cardenas and he reaffirms the things we have all heard about Prince. All I can say is I don't think I ever want to meet him.

mozfonky said:

Dig brah, I've recorded with both Andre and Morris. I've stayed in touch with Andre, up untill last year, since 1995. These are cats, especially Andre, that have known P damn near all of his life. They have told me MANY things about Prince. Most of which I have never even alluded to on here. My point is is that P is human just like the rest of us. Good and bad, with all the warts. The word about "Never meet your heroes" is sometimes valid and I have met Prince myself. But it was fine, no problems. He didn't have batwings or two heads and a tail and red pupils in his eyes and a tail that hid and curled up underneath his trenchcoat. He was ultimately just a brutha that has made a serious impact in modern music.
[Edited 9/7/09 22:14pm]

ThreadBare said:[quote]

jcurley said:

Religious leanings aside, Prince's main influences were from the period of time most associated with hippies (James Brown, Sly and the Family Stone, Santana, Jimi Hendrix, Joni Mitchell and, yes, the Beatles). And their influence can be seen in everything from his musical choices to his visual and fashion choices.

As for the Beatles, ATWIAD owes more than visual approaches to them. The title track and "Paisley Park" are straight from Liverpool. As to his being more gracious in more recent years, I found it interesting that he denied having ever heard "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" until prepping for the induction ceremony.

Prince sometimes likes pretend that he sprung fully formed from the foam like Venus.[/quote

Well yeh James Brown is my favourite hippy. I know I sound nasty but can anyone be actually influenced by the Beatles other than actually copy them? I probably need to not comment because I have a pathological dislike of John lennon (and Mccartney) for being psuedo intellectuals. I will stop but.....

jcurley said:

I didn't say JB was a hippie. I said he was one of P's main influences and from the time most associated with hippies. Though, it could be argued that the traits of black counterculture -- of which Mr. "Black & Proud" was most surely a part -- was on par with the traits most associated with (predominantly white) hippies. One man's Woodstock was another brotha's Wattstax, in other words. (No, I'm not saying JB performed at Wattstax.) Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing.

Now, *I'll* stop being nasty.

Sure, I think you could be influenced by the Beatles without copying them. But the fact remains that ATWIAD is full of nods to the Beatles. That doesn't mean they're the end-all be-all. Just means they're among his influences. And, they were hippies, too.

ThreadBare said:

Yep.

jcurley said:[quote]

ThreadBare said:

interesting, i always believed the oft repeated line that the beatles brought self-conscious art to rock. I've never really disliked any of them, i thought their personalities could be fucked up sometimes, but that's just like you and me. I never thought of Paul as intellectual, sure Lennon would come up with off the wall shit.

blackguitaristz said:

mozfonky said:

I can dig it and I myself have said some of the same shit u just did. Oh and by the way, how do u know that one of those cats DIDN'T knock Prince the fuck out?!

Hippies were cool to people Prince's age like myself although we were a little too young to really be one back then. Think about it, if he REALLY didn't like em, why does he always talk about them. Isn't there a new movie out about the 'woodstock' generation? Nothing but hippies.
[Edited 9/8/09 2:34am]

U Can Dance if U Want to LOL

blackguitaristz said:

well, if you ever decide to come out with your e hollywood stories i'll be the first to listen. I wouldn't be surprised, I've heard about the Jellybean incident, and I've heard that Morris "would have" jumped all over Prince but never read about any fights. Anyway, I said that because right before I came home and wrote the post, I saw a manager at a local bar. He was one of these jackasses that had people scurrying around him, I worked with him for a while but hated all the attitude. I mean you could see the power drunkeness in his behavior, fuck that so I just left. If it came down to it though I would hit him in his fattass head, just what he needs. Don't even know why the psycho waved to me in heavy traffic, those kinds you just can't figure out. Anyway, fuck Prince, I'd punch him in both bad hips pull his wig off and maybe even call him the N word which I never do.

blackguitaristz said:

A quick follow up on bg's If 6 Was 9/All The Critics Love You In NY lyrical connections.

There's an interesting dichotomy here when you note that although he may have been using the term "Hippies" in a pejoritive sense, he embraced many elements of 60s hippiedom. Specifically, various musical entities of that time with Jimi Hendrix being the major ring leader.
This is evident in terms of his dress/look and musical stylings (psychedelia) during certain periods (Roughly Around the World In a Day through Graffiti Bridge).

"The Hippies" were at the core of Hendrix's initial fanbase...



...His major reintroduction to the American market being his landmark performance at The Monterey Pop Festival in 1967.


Hendrix performing...



...Like A Rolling Stone & Wild Thing



Here's a telling quote from a book written by John McDermott and Jimi's longtime collaborator (engineer/co-producer) Eddie Kramer...



...HENDRIX: Setting The Record Straight


"Hendrix's achievements and, perhaps most importantly, his influence, has neither diminished nor grown outdated. So who are the present-day practitioners of Jimi Hendrix's pioneering innovations? The list may surprise you. As a guitarist, Jimi provided the showman persona that Prince has so successfully extended. He has repeatedly acknowledged Hendrix's considerable influence on his music. (While *Graffiti Bridge's "Tick Tick Bang" is perhaps the most obvious nod of all-with it inventive sampling of Jimi's own "Little Miss Lover"-somewhere, reportedly, with Warner Bros. tape vaults lies Prince's own rendition of "Purple Haze," cut during sessions for the guitarist's magnificent 1999 album.)"

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

*It's interesting that another potential Hendrix connection would show up in a movie that bears a similar name to a flick that Jimi was tangentially involved in titled Rainbow Bridge. Both flicks were rather strange excursions (biting my tongue/keyboard here) into the art(?) of film making.
(On a side note, the drum intro of Tower of Power's Squib Cakes was also sampled for Release It.)



tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

theAudience said:

What it is, Aud? Now THAT'S what I'm talking about! I knew cats like u and Threadbare would KNOW exactly where I was coming from. And thanx for the acknowledgement too!

I consider myself a new-age hippie.
If you look back to "Sign O The Times", one of my favorite era's, it's clear that prince was embracing hippiness
In my eyes at least (:

PurpleDiamond2009 said:

He wasn't positive about them, that's for sure! As most noted already. And I never pictured p as a hippie. He's hedonistic, more sex than love crazed, and more hectic than relaxed.

Also, like Lisa said: "He doesn't overthink his lyrics too much, so don't read too much into them!" (Paraphrasing though )

Wow, tA, you really outdo yourself on some of your posts! Thanks for the words and music!

KristinaMoon said:

In my eyes as well. The jean jacket with the peace sign and the cut out heart, that look was definately hippie.

Definetly Hippie !