So can you good people explain something for me

after 35years of the original album release the master of that release will revert to Prince. What does that actually mean as far as benefits to Prince is concerned?

It seems to be the Publishing rights that are worth the $$$ this is what seems to be the 'asset' as far as the Beatles recordings are concerned, nobody ever mentions the masters when considering this particular back catalogue (which must be the most valuable in music history)

So two points does Prince or universal publishing own the publishing rights to his music? I seem to remember this had something to do with waiting to 2000 to change his name back to Prince?

If he does own the publishing why has he got his panties in such a twist and if he doesn't own his publishing why does he keep banging on about masters rather than publishing

just wondering

Good questions, and deserves a bump.

i don't actually think there is anyone on here who can answer with 100% certainty. Daft question but given the lyrical content of the past earlier works does he even care about owning the old masters at all anymore?.

What really matters is the copyrights and the publishing rights.

Also, I'm not sure if it's been made clear whether Prince is referring to the original multi-tracked masters or the original mixed masters (stereo).

I'm not sure if Prince would do anything with them... I think it may be more a matter of principle. It's most definitely not about money... that comes from the copyrights and publishing rights.

As a matter of personal principle, I think every self-produced artist SHOULD own their master tapes, as their own creations.

Also, I'd think WB would want those masters 4 as long as they could have them for potential re-releases, collections, etc.

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[Edited 7/8/09 9:43am]

Giovanni777 said:

My take is that Prince has the multi-tracks (which is how he re-recorded his entire catalog and gave us 1999: The New Master), and probably possesses the WB released stereo masters. Ownership of these stereo mix-downs are what the stand-off with WB is about.

I'm guessing that there would be much more money to be made with publishing rights once the catalog is remastered and re-packaged properly. As it stands, the publishing rights are currently for a decidedly obsolete catalog, so it will languish until there are remasters.

But, like I've said before, we will probably watch each album go out of print as they are turned over to Prince.

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[Edited 12/29/09 9:12am]

squirrelgrease said:

cheers squirrel

considering the minute detail people tend to "know" about Prince I can't believe we can't work out if he owns his publishing

I just remembered the lyrics to Big White Mansion it sounds like he owns the publishing?

Now, that's a cross I could never bear (How 'bout them publishing
rights?)
Sell my publishing? What a laugh! (Ha ha)
I don't know Bo, but I do know math (I do know math)
Back 2 Minneapolis, there U go

Anyway this masters business has been a major major influence on the direction his career has taken since 1992 so thats what interests me about it

i just can't quite work out the financial benefits of owning the masters but i would love to know

maybe he just feels they are his creation so he should own them

i always got the impression it was a financial thing though as Prince seemed to be advising young artist to own their masters




that ernestsewell guy seems to know shit where is he?

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[Edited 12/29/09 9:13am]

endymion said:

Prince own his publishing rights.

They reverted back to him, as you state, a number of years ago. He then assigned the rights to Universal for administrative purposes, renewing that first deal after 5 years.

The rights are generally assigned so that the administrator is able to assert the rights on Prince's behalf, and they then usually reap a payment for their work - possibly a percentage of monies collected. In that way, the harder Universal work, the more they earn - and the more Prince also receives.

The reason that Prince continues to talk about publishing rights is probably because he wants others to learn the lessons that he feels he learned the hard way. It's why he also mentions the dangers of artists doing '360 degree' deals and being caught out by contract recoupables.

He obviously mentions masters because he is still having to learn that lesson, which he considers unfairly works against artists and for record companies.

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[Edited 7/8/09 12:34pm]

langebleu said:

Okay cheers langebleu that explains the Universal connection

Any ideas langebleu what the financial implications are with ownership of the masters as you say it works in favour of the record companies?

I am just trying to understand why he got sooooo worked up

mzkqueen03 please feel free not to post

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[Edited 12/29/09 9:13am]

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[Edited 12/29/09 9:13am]

squirrelgrease said:

That's pretty much my take as well.

endymion said:

Prince DOES own the publishing rights, and he gets paid 4 every use of his released material, including sales of his back catalog.

What SQUIRRELGREASE was saying is that much MORE money would be made from remasters... The entire Prince fan base, plus newcomers, would buy them.

Giovanni777 said:

If remastering and then reissuing is such a money maker why hasn't WB done it surely they are just about the £$$$

endymion said:

They can't without Prince's approval. Thus the stalemate. Prince - Ultimate and the Girl 6 soundtrack were somehow approved by both parties, because they have been remastered. Ultimate was somewhat compromised, as the first track list had Erotic City on it and Prince insisted on not having curse words - or so the story goes.

endymion said:

Firstly, without wishing to be overly picky, I wouldn't refer to 'ownership of masters' because it can be confusing.

If you imagine the physical masters - tapes - Prince most probably owns those.

The issue is, who is legally able to exercise rights to use the masters.

WB were likely assigned these rights under contract for original release and some further reissue. However, it is believed that both parties (WB and Prince) need to agree to release of those recordings if remastering is proposed.

As to the financial implications? Well, basically Prince signed a recording contract under which typically a record company would receive the lion's share of the income from sales, but Prince would likely receive a percentage.

To understand the implications, it's possibly worth reading the How Stuff Works article to get an appreciation:

http://entertainment.hows...ntract.htm

Fundamentally, Prince considers the 35 year rule unjust because he is prevented from releasing or using further the recordings of his own work even long after the recording contract technically terminated.

Prince does own his publishing rights! He got that back on 12/31/1999 when the rights went up from Warner Chappel. The rights went back 2 Prince. Prince does not own the rights 2 his master recordings of his work that were released by Warner Brothers (1978-1996,1999). Old Friends 4 Sale was released back in 1999 only bcuz Prince originally gave Warner Bros. the album back in 1996 2 end his contract with them. It was part of a 3 album deal 2 get him out of his contract (2 release him from Warner).So they had the rights 2 release that album. All of those compilations (The Best Of... and Ultimate), were released by Warner but they had 2 get Prince's permission bcuz Prince owns the publishing rights of all of his work (1978-2009) but, he does own the master recordings of his offfically released material while on Warner Bros. So, 4 a while they had 2 work 2gether. As part of his deal back in 1995 or 2001, (I think) Warner Bros. could only release 2 compilations with Prince's permission. The rights 2 his master recordings of his offical albums at Warner Bros will start reverting back 2 him after 35 years of it's original released or filing. That means his rights 2 his albums at Warner will revert every year 2 Prince beginning in 2013 with For You. Then, the Prince album in 2014 and so on. Prince does have some rights 2 his movies as well (if I recall) and that's why they got re-released by Warner with no Prince input. He also owns the publishing rights 2 his side projects like The Time, Jill Jones, The Family, Vanity 6, Apollonia 6, etc. He even owns some of these artist names as well.

Prince does possesses and physically owned all of his master recordings (1978-2009).

Somewhat related...

I thought they could only own your stuff is if they pay to record it....but Prince says 1999 was recorded in his house, so they didn't pay for it, so how do they own it?

when people go on about remastering a record and this is where the money is-what does it mean to remaster? Whats the difference between a remaster and just going out and buying the CD-sorry for being stupid but.....

jcurley said:

Remastered CDs simply sound better. Most of Prince´s 1980s CDs sound a bit weak and tinny, for lack of better words.
Remastered classic albums, in my opinion, sound a bit richer, fuller and warmer than the old pressings from the 1980s. The songs on Ultimate and the Girl 6 soundtrack, for example, sound much better than, say, Adore on the Sign of the Times album. Whenever I want to listen to Adore, I prefer the version on the Girl6 soundtrack.
I´m not entirely sure though whether the songs on the Ultimate album can be considered truly "remastered" songs or not because I think they didn´t really remaster them, as far as I´ve heard and read here on this site. The songs still sound much better than the album versions though.

Volitan11 said:

It all depends on the contract. Some contracts front a portion of your earnings to make a record. Prince has probably renegotiated his contract with WB several times over the years. One of his later contracts was for something like 100 Million/Executive status, which turned into the "slave" and years.

KoolEaze said:

True. Retooled might be a better term, since it appears they didn't go back to the analog stereo mix-down tapes, but used digital sources. Girl 6 may have also been done this way, as the analog tapes are probably very fragile and remastering from them may be a one-shot deal.

sms130 said:

What is werid about it is te craziest people sample some of his stuff. If he needs to giver permission then why does Lil' Wayne or any other fool sample shis stuff....since he complaines about it.



I always thought it meant he sold his publishing for money..."I do know math". Wow...I never looked at it that way. I guess I just put his masters and publishing together.

I always thought it was funny how fans and Prince trips about his masters...he sold them in 1992. He should be mad at himself or is people who didn't explain the small print to P. He just wanted the $100 million contract. (I think MJ just got $65 and Janet got $45). I remember reading about it....folks at WB said P had his people send it to the media before the ink was dry.That the contract wasn't as big....he had to sell at least 5 million copies each album to reach amount.

I am surprised he never bought them back....maybe WB won't sell them. He is lucky MJ didn't buy them...just to be mean.

Prince never brought back his publishing, the publishing contract was up from Warner Chappel and they reverted back 2 Prince. As far as samples concerns, Prince has 2 give the green light as far as songs that samples his music. He has 2 approve that 4 those songs 2 be officially released with the sample. Without it his approval, if a song is released containing a sample of Prince's music in anyway without his permission than he can sue folks. Look at tha song by (I think) Yo Gotti - 'Pure Cocaine' that incorporates a sample of sort of 'Purple Rain'. Some people thought it was Plies but, it was Yo Gotti. Anyway that song was never officially release, only released in the bootlegs and mixtapes. It was never cleared by Prince and if it were 2 be released he would have sued or demand that the song be taken down or off any release that contains that song. That's y u're not gonna officially hear that song by Twista 'I Can Make U Say' produced by Kanye West. Prince is not gonna green light that. It was a cool song but, let's be real he's not gonna give them permission 4 that one.

Prince has always owned his publishing as a member of ASCAP for music writers. That's where Prince gets his lion's share of the money. The masters belong to WB until they start reverting back as others have said. Plus I'm sure Prince still has the "master" masters of his music but whatever he turned into WB to distribute became theirs until the contracted time limit is up.

He does physically own his master recordings but, he don't own the rights 2 use them. Warner does but, starting in 2013 the rights revert back 2 him every year (nearly) from there 4 every album.

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[Edited 12/29/09 9:13am]

I think,it's gonna b interesting 2 watch what happens if the rights revert back 2 Prince. It's so many ideas that I'm sure Prince has 4 his music. So many remastered version of album 2 come. Only time will tell.