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PrintableI think Prince's view on this actually makes sense (for once). He says that back when he used provacative lyrics, he was pushing envelopes - and therefore, it was cool and gave his music an edge. I'd say this was the case through "Come," when I heard "put my toungue in the crease," it was awesome - and like nothing we'd ever heard on the radio.
Today, it's just tired and played out to say dirty crap in songs. It's been done. It just appears trite and easy now. Kinda like a comedian whose act merely consists of "women are like.....men are like..." - - move on. | |
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SavonOsco said: MantuaPharoah said: Well let me add one more dynamic to this discussion.
There was a song on the radio a few months ago that I liked called "Bed" by J. Holliday. I love the music, and the chorus was kind of infectious. The lyrics aren't great or innovative by any means, but I found myself really liking this song. Then I go to YouTube and find the video after listening to this song over and over for about 2 weeks. On the video, this guy is onstage singing live, with his pants all down, and his boxer shorts hanging out! Now here I thought this might be some decent new R&B singer, and the image he gave off was "nouveau thug" with that whole boxers-out look... which I DETEST with a passion! As a 37-year old African-American male... I'm thinkin'... what the heck is wrong with this generation? How the hell did boxers hanging out become "pop culture cool". To me it's DISGUSTING to see on the streets everyday, and smacks of "prison culture" which has invaded "pop culture" and society. How is this look a "positive"? Does this look really get chicks???? BUT... Then I think back to Prince, prancing around in his "skivvies" ... and I'm not talking about "tighty whities". That whole "Dirty Mind" era was before I became a Prince fan... but once again... I ask myself... am I a hypocrite for HATING this fashion trend that we have today, but then being "somewhat tolerant" of what Prince used to don. I'm not sure if I would have become a Prince fan had my first "exposure" (no pun intended) to Prince been that Dirty Mind look, but how am I supposed to tell people that this look of today is disgusting and rediculous and obscene, when our hero ... "wished we all were nude!", and wore outfits while performing that would make Richard Simmons blush!!! I don't know Org... I understand you all on the "music" vibe, and I agree. I still think the "boxer shorts" look is OBSCENE and rediculous... once again... making me a candidate for being a hypocrite. Yep, I'm conflicted! You see these people "waddling" down the street holding their pants up. It just looks stupid IMHO... and all you see sometimes is BOXER ASS in your face while you're sipping your Starbucks! But then again... Prince... black spandex... stockings... no shirt... full frontal bulge... and I have to have a Coke and a smile, and shut the fuck up! lol No that's GOT to be me being a hypocrite, right??? [Edited 7/27/09 13:05pm] [Edited 7/27/09 13:06pm] You answered your own question,you're 37 years old and grown.Prince pushed the envelope and blew your mind when u was at the same age these kids are.As these kids grown they'll look at it differently also.It's their time and you're old just like you told your dad when he looked at Prince strange.BUT musically,Prince was clever with most of his lyrics.True he had blantat upfront lyrics "Lets Pretend We're Married",but again he was setting a platform for later artist,and they have run with it to the point that its not envelope pushing any more.That one song "Every Girl" by Drake featuring Lil Wayne and J Holliday is alarming to my ears "I wanna fuck every girl around the world".But I have to fall back,because my ass was jamming to a song about having sex with your sister.we just getting old my friend LOL... I was afraid that was the answer. So while I can justify that Prince's lyrics were "arfully" stated, and backed by innovational music, his attiire... was just WACK! LOL Got it! Thanks. Can't justify the skivvies! lol [Edited 7/27/09 13:30pm] [Edited 7/27/09 13:31pm] The public is squeezin' you kiddo. You'd better kick ass on your next album or else! |
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MantuaPharoah said: HonestMan13 said: These young dudes now are being dressed by a team of people and guided by the label head telling them that this is the "hot look". Prince was always his own fashion consultant and was the final word on the clothes he wore. Original from day one and still to this day. He made his own "hot look". When every young black artist is dressed the same it's because someone wants that image portrayed to the masses. Black men are told today that walking around with your drawz out is hot! There's no style in being a clone of the next dude. But you're missing the point... That look was a bit obscene by Prince. The look of "young artists" is obscene in many cases today. I'm focussing primarily on the boxer look. So is that wrong of you/me/us to be critical of this "hot look", when Prince had a look that was just as "obscene" if not more so, and wasn't necessarily considered a "hot" look. Like I said... I'm just trying to figure out if I have any right to be critical of the music scene today. I get it on the lyrics, and I'm cool with that. I've moved on to the attire. .. and I'm not sure if I have a leg to stand on based on what Prince used to wear and how he used to dress. [Edited 7/27/09 13:26pm] It's different because if a record executive decided tomorrow that wearing your boxers on your head was hot these young dudes would have no choice but to do so. Then regulars dudes in the street would follow suit to keep up the image of keeping it real. Prince was out there, definitely but it was his style choice and not a boardroom decision. There has to be respect for that freedom of choice and the balls to do it. Being a clone to a stereotype ain't too respectable and it ain't a choice in this case. I don't think you're being hypocritical. When  go 2 a Prince concert or related event it's all  up in the house but when log onto this site and the miasma of bitchiness is completely overwhelming! | |
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HonestMan13 said: MantuaPharoah said: But you're missing the point... That look was a bit obscene by Prince. The look of "young artists" is obscene in many cases today. I'm focussing primarily on the boxer look. So is that wrong of you/me/us to be critical of this "hot look", when Prince had a look that was just as "obscene" if not more so, and wasn't necessarily considered a "hot" look. Like I said... I'm just trying to figure out if I have any right to be critical of the music scene today. I get it on the lyrics, and I'm cool with that. I've moved on to the attire. .. and I'm not sure if I have a leg to stand on based on what Prince used to wear and how he used to dress. [Edited 7/27/09 13:26pm] It's different because if a record executive decided tomorrow that wearing your boxers on your head was hot these young dudes would have no choice but to do so. Then regulars dudes in the street would follow suit to keep up the image of keeping it real. Prince was out there, definitely but it was his style choice and not a boardroom decision. There has to be respect for that freedom of choice and the balls to do it. Being a clone to a stereotype ain't too respectable and it ain't a choice in this case. I don't think you're being hypocritical. Hey Honest Man, you're Prince image that you use is EXACTLY what I'm talking about! WTF?? HA!! Thanks for your response. I get what you're saying.  The public is squeezin' you kiddo. You'd better kick ass on your next album or else! |
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MantuaPharoah - you are not a hypocrite ! There should be no inner conflict, your points are totally valid and if they do converge at some point, they are fully justified and substantiated.
At our (similar) age, we know that we are not going to embrace every new fashion and that we will even smile when we see old fashions swinging by once again (luminous leggings, skinny jeans, baggy jeans, flairs, converse style pumps etc) BUT there is NO defending the ridiculous trend of wearing jeans around your thighs !!! What is it about? How on earth do they think it looks cool? - jeans ruffled and crumpled around your ankles as they shuffle along - not being able to walk properly due to the jeans being done up below their testies!! What sized waist do they have to buy? What sized belt must they get that goes around their legs? Totally stupid and bizarre, let alone a tad unappealing when you get stuck behind a sweat-patched pair of pants, shuffling in front of you!!! So, no - this is not just us getting older and "not getting it" - some things are just wrong, regardless of generation. In relation to Prince and his DM bikini briefs - this was never a fashion - as HonestMan13 says, this was just Prince being Prince!! We didn't go out and copy it - did we? We just stood back and thought "this dudes sooo cool - just out there - but with the great music, it all just makes sense - how awesome?" We knew we couldn't pull wearing that stuff off ourselves and we didn't want to - we enjoyed him being different and that was what being a "STAR" was about!! The "artists" today aren't different or unreachable stars, they are just like their fans but with more bling! The kids want their "stars" to be recognisable, to identify with them - they can then "aspire" (?) to be like them - i.e. with more money - so that they can get the bigger car, the "bitches" and the bling! There is no mystique about the artists, kids want to (and do) know everything about them - website, blogs, myspace, reality tv "music channels" - it's all just there for them - too easy - too "fastfood" ! So, please relax - all is fine with your Prince referencing. He's not normal (talent wise, star wise...anything - which is why he is so great!) so it is difficult to relate him to "other" stuff ! | |
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HonestMan13 said: MantuaPharoah said: But you're missing the point... That look was a bit obscene by Prince. The look of "young artists" is obscene in many cases today. I'm focussing primarily on the boxer look. So is that wrong of you/me/us to be critical of this "hot look", when Prince had a look that was just as "obscene" if not more so, and wasn't necessarily considered a "hot" look. Like I said... I'm just trying to figure out if I have any right to be critical of the music scene today. I get it on the lyrics, and I'm cool with that. I've moved on to the attire. .. and I'm not sure if I have a leg to stand on based on what Prince used to wear and how he used to dress. [Edited 7/27/09 13:26pm] It's different because if a record executive decided tomorrow that wearing your boxers on your head was hot these young dudes would have no choice but to do so. Then regulars dudes in the street would follow suit to keep up the image of keeping it real. Prince was out there, definitely but it was his style choice and not a boardroom decision. There has to be respect for that freedom of choice and the balls to do it. Being a clone to a stereotype ain't too respectable and it ain't a choice in this case. I don't think you're being hypocritical. So what record exec told Jay-Z to wear throwback jerseys a couple of years ago?That style was out in the hood already and Jigga brought it out to the masses and those that followed,they followed.When cats wore overside hockey jerseys to cover their guns easier (not cuz they like hockey) it was already in the hood.Rappers brought that out to the masses.Cats started wearing their boxers low because of the jail element (no belts) and that look is prominent in the hood,even though alot following the trend arent built for it.In Black music,the streets decide not a record exec.Puffy and Mase wore all of that shiny suits shit..u didnt see that in the hood.but it was respected.Andre 3000 sure as hell wasnt told to wear what he wears.Thats his thing and its respected.Soon guys (and girls) will start wearing belts again,because THAT will be the next cool thing.again,we're just getting old yall..lol | |
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SavonOsco said: HonestMan13 said: It's different because if a record executive decided tomorrow that wearing your boxers on your head was hot these young dudes would have no choice but to do so. Then regulars dudes in the street would follow suit to keep up the image of keeping it real. Prince was out there, definitely but it was his style choice and not a boardroom decision. There has to be respect for that freedom of choice and the balls to do it. Being a clone to a stereotype ain't too respectable and it ain't a choice in this case. I don't think you're being hypocritical. So what record exec told Jay-Z to wear throwback jerseys a couple of years ago?That style was out in the hood already and Jigga brought it out to the masses and those that followed,they followed.When cats wore overside hockey jerseys to cover their guns easier (not cuz they like hockey) it was already in the hood.Rappers brought that out to the masses.Cats started wearing their boxers low because of the jail element (no belts) and that look is prominent in the hood,even though alot following the trend arent built for it.In Black music,the streets decide not a record exec.Puffy and Mase wore all of that shiny suits shit..u didnt see that in the hood.but it was respected.Andre 3000 sure as hell wasnt told to wear what he wears.Thats his thing and its respected.Soon guys (and girls) will start wearing belts again,because THAT will be the next cool thing.again,we're just getting old yall..lol Jay-Z also had dudes spending they paychecks on Cristal until the CEO dissed the rap community. Then he told those people to stop drinking it. These dudes are sheep! 5 years ago these same dudes wouldn't be caught dead in skinny jeans.  When go 2 a Prince concert or related event it's all up in the house but when log onto this site and the miasma of bitchiness is completely overwhelming! | |
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Sometimes I find myself resisting the urge 2 hoik those pants UP!
Or trying 2 surpress laughter when they waddle by like penguins. I'm turning in2 a prude  | |
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HonestMan13 said: SavonOsco said: So what record exec told Jay-Z to wear throwback jerseys a couple of years ago?That style was out in the hood already and Jigga brought it out to the masses and those that followed,they followed.When cats wore overside hockey jerseys to cover their guns easier (not cuz they like hockey) it was already in the hood.Rappers brought that out to the masses.Cats started wearing their boxers low because of the jail element (no belts) and that look is prominent in the hood,even though alot following the trend arent built for it.In Black music,the streets decide not a record exec.Puffy and Mase wore all of that shiny suits shit..u didnt see that in the hood.but it was respected.Andre 3000 sure as hell wasnt told to wear what he wears.Thats his thing and its respected.Soon guys (and girls) will start wearing belts again,because THAT will be the next cool thing.again,we're just getting old yall..lol Jay-Z also had dudes spending they paychecks on Cristal until the CEO dissed the rap community. Then he told those people to stop drinking it. These dudes are sheep! 5 years ago these same dudes wouldn't be caught dead in skinny jeans. I'm talking about the record exec comment.He could care less what we all wear long as he makes money.He's not telling anyone to wear anything.Jay-Z also told cats he was too old to wear throwback jerseys and guys stopped instantly(poor Mitchell&Ness).Maybe he needs to tell these guys to buy a belt and they'll do it..lol..It's just a product of the enviroment..trends come and go and this will pass.Look on the bright side,if they do a crime, they can't outrun the cops with their pants falling down to their ankles...lol | |
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SavonOsco said: HonestMan13 said: Jay-Z also had dudes spending they paychecks on Cristal until the CEO dissed the rap community. Then he told those people to stop drinking it. These dudes are sheep! 5 years ago these same dudes wouldn't be caught dead in skinny jeans. I'm talking about the record exec comment.He could care less what we all wear long as he makes money.He's not telling anyone to wear anything.Jay-Z also told cats he was too old to wear throwback jerseys and guys stopped instantly(poor Mitchell&Ness).Maybe he needs to tell these guys to buy a belt and they'll do it..lol..It's just a product of the enviroment..trends come and go and this will pass.Look on the bright side,if they do a crime, they can't outrun the cops with their pants falling down to their ankles...lol My is that dudes lack individual style. Prince had/has a unique style and that gets respect from me. I for myself try to dress for myself not for a perceived trend I'm being force fed by the rapper du jour. And believe it when these dudes are being dressed by a team that the label had something to do with it. They sell images now not music. When go 2 a Prince concert or related event it's all up in the house but when log onto this site and the miasma of bitchiness is completely overwhelming! | |
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HonestMan13 said: SavonOsco said: I'm talking about the record exec comment.He could care less what we all wear long as he makes money.He's not telling anyone to wear anything.Jay-Z also told cats he was too old to wear throwback jerseys and guys stopped instantly(poor Mitchell&Ness).Maybe he needs to tell these guys to buy a belt and they'll do it..lol..It's just a product of the enviroment..trends come and go and this will pass.Look on the bright side,if they do a crime, they can't outrun the cops with their pants falling down to their ankles...lol My is that dudes lack individual style. Prince had/has a unique style and that gets respect from me. I for myself try to dress for myself not for a perceived trend I'm being force fed by the rapper du jour. And believe it when these dudes are being dressed by a team that the label had something to do with it. They sell images now not music. Labels follow trends not make them.Artist and Development doesnt tell a rapper in a mode like Common that he's going to start wearing his pants down his ass.Backpackers like Lupe or Talib Kweli will never be told to show their ass crack.An artist has his look and direction already in their mind,A&D helps with that development.Times have change when it comes to that. | |
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Paris9748430 said: Yes, you're a hypocrite, because people were saying those exact same things about Prince 25-30 years ago.
The Parental Advisory Warning on CD's exist today because of Prince. Yes, I'm slightly appalled by some of these posts! It's fine not to like these songs (I can't think of any primordially "provocative" pieces that I enjoy), but I can't see a Prince fan being offended by an overtly-sexual song or christen it as "filth". Ya'll trippin'. Don't be so solemn. [Edited 7/28/09 11:57am] | |
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I think it's because Prince came at us with a point of view and the world he created musically so to speak...
just for laughs ,take SPECTACULAR you look at him dance you can't take him seriously. I don't think your a hypocrite at all |
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I think Prince was better back in the day than these artist now, or maybe it's just because like him. I'm older and just tired of hearing it. | |
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Dayclear said: I think Prince was better back in the day than these artist now, or maybe it's just because like him. I'm older and just tired of hearing it.
I give new artists a fair shake and do enjoy some of the music in the right context or situation. It's hard to find a real musician getting recognition and providing you with options or challenging your tastes. When go 2 a Prince concert or related event it's all up in the house but when log onto this site and the miasma of bitchiness is completely overwhelming! | |
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MantuaPharoah said: Prince had songs like Little Red Corvette, Gett Off, Erotic City, Insatiable, Darling Nikki... and the list goes on and on.
But now on the radio, you have songs like "I Fucked the Police", and all kinds of filth and flarn. When Prince sings his "risque" songs, to me it's art, but the artists of today just put it in your face and seem to have no class, style or creativity about it. Little Red Corvette is pure genious! Even Adore for example, has the line "I ain't fuckin' just for kicks". I LOVE his tone and "styling", but hate the lyrics to songs like like "I wish I could fuck every girl in the world" by Li'l Wayne, and the blatancy of songs like "Birthday Sex". Where is the ART??? Is there a difference with Prince's stuff, or am I just biased, a hypocrite, and getting old at 37? I agree with your assessment of POP today, it really has no point, no flavor or taste to it. It really all is the same. I remember when music use to mean something, even when rappers swore it was used as a protest to the establishment. If you are referring to F The Police by Bodycount, I actually like the message there. Like Punk, its anti-establishment and with Police violence and unwarranted use of power still relevant, I see the song making a point. Crude, insulting and angry yes, but definitely a reason behind it. "The voter is less important than the man who provides money to the candidate," - Former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens
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rudedog said: MantuaPharoah said: Prince had songs like Little Red Corvette, Gett Off, Erotic City, Insatiable, Darling Nikki... and the list goes on and on.
But now on the radio, you have songs like "I Fucked the Police", and all kinds of filth and flarn. When Prince sings his "risque" songs, to me it's art, but the artists of today just put it in your face and seem to have no class, style or creativity about it. Little Red Corvette is pure genious! Even Adore for example, has the line "I ain't fuckin' just for kicks". I LOVE his tone and "styling", but hate the lyrics to songs like like "I wish I could fuck every girl in the world" by Li'l Wayne, and the blatancy of songs like "Birthday Sex". Where is the ART??? Is there a difference with Prince's stuff, or am I just biased, a hypocrite, and getting old at 37? I agree with your assessment of POP today, it really has no point, no flavor or taste to it. It really all is the same. I remember when music use to mean something, even when rappers swore it was used as a protest to the establishment. If you are referring to F The Police by Bodycount, I actually like the message there. Like Punk, its anti-establishment and with Police violence and unwarranted use of power still relevant, I see the song making a point. Crude, insulting and angry yes, but definitely a reason behind it. No. The song I was talking about is a song about this guy getting pulled over by a female cop. She puts the handcuffs on him, puts him the back of her car, and then he proceeds to "fuck the police". It's trash. I mean seriously! I'm sure you'll find it on YouTube. Funny though... 'cause I'll listen to Lady Cab Driver. Maybe I'm just not hip to the whole "ghetto thug" mentality. I'm sure that has something to do with it. Like I said, with Prince, there was a certain about of style. With these new cats, it's all shock value, in your face, hip hop smut that's all about the bling bling and showing off. It's pushing the envelope because "I CAN", not because there's any creativity behind it, or real talent. The public is squeezin' you kiddo. You'd better kick ass on your next album or else! |
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The problem I have with the imagery and lyrics of much of contemporary music is it's hyper-masculinity and the degredation of women. Prince always played with gender and sexuality. He was always willing to put himself out there and incorporate vulnerability and sensitivity.
There are plenty of naked and sexualized images of women in his art, but P was never shy about letting it hang out himself. | |
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MantuaPharoah said: ...getting pulled over by a female cop. She puts the handcuffs on him, puts him the back of her car, and then he proceeds to "fuck the police". The cop had 2 B female B4 the police got "fucked" - pushing the envelope? really? A far cry from N.W.A. " Fuck tha Police". I find the degredation of women far more disturbing than the clothes. (Am gonna have 2 revisit Lady Cab driver & Sister). [Edited 7/28/09 17:17pm] | |
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we r hypocrites, and it's not for us to say, leave it to us (and prince) we will rationalize. but my shorties are 20 and 25 and even today when i show them "old school" prince, the one we fell in love with they go what tha ...?. To them he is this little old dude who plays the shit out of the guitar, when they listen and see old concert footage they know why he is the shit LOL, but they still say he was nasty.When ur young you hunt for hypocrites, to validate the shit u wanna do, when your 41 u are the hypocrite and u rationalize ur shit as "i was young". | |
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not a hypocrite
a lot of the music Prince did especially his 1978-1990 stuff was not over the top at all, a bit underground, reflective of the genre:New Wave, and it really wasn't vulgar or vulgar for the sake of being a lot of music now is, there is no color no shading just straight out nekked I remember watching an interview on BET back in the 90's about this same kind of subject: they had Adina Howard:Freak Like Me and jazz singer Nancy Wilson. and Adina went on about N.Wilson being her role model and inspiration etc etc and Mrs Wilson said as classy as she could that she didn't find Adinas music to be flattering of her respect nor did she care for that kind of in your face music Adina made another album after that and it was all the same subject even the next single for the 2nd album was about/titled Freak Freaks or Freakin | |
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MantuaPharoah said: Prince had songs like Little Red Corvette, Gett Off, Erotic City, Insatiable, Darling Nikki... and the list goes on and on.
But now on the radio, you have songs like "I Fucked the Police", and all kinds of filth and flarn. When Prince sings his "risque" songs, to me it's art, but the artists of today just put it in your face and seem to have no class, style or creativity about it. Little Red Corvette is pure genious! Even Adore for example, has the line "I ain't fuckin' just for kicks". I LOVE his tone and "styling", but hate the lyrics to songs like like "I wish I could fuck every girl in the world" by Li'l Wayne, and the blatancy of songs like "Birthday Sex". Where is the ART??? Is there a difference with Prince's stuff, or am I just biased, a hypocrite, and getting old at 37? If the conversation is based on Morals.. Prince is slightly better.. He was just a step in "pushing the envelope" to gender-bending (look-wise) androgyny, exploiting women's bodies, championing free sex as love in the beginning. (I saw Prince apologize for this in concert in April 2000 at The Atlanta Civic Center [1st Tour with John Blackwell as The NPG Drummer]). The only reason that he and other entertainers used caution then (or more artistic and creative ways to express what the modern entertainer has), and subtlety is because of the government restrictions, and public outrage. Once vulgarities made more $$$$, and appeased the public, the envelopes opened wider. The children loved it (because adult profanity and vulgarity = power to teenagers), and the government wants children to be happy and to believe it works for their interests.. The government (Coservative or Liberal) seeks to appease the publics interest and their children. Probably so they won't demand that this country lives by YHWH's (The Creator's) natural Law in Torah (in The Bible). Compromise, Regulation, for continued Power and Control. Remember the outrage with "Superbowl BreastGate" with Janet? To appease the lust of the public in this economy, I believe that nudity and sex will be allowed on Network TV within the next 3 years. Nudity in Public will be next. The Conservatives will cry (because it is their role to do so), but it will appease the masses in troubled times.. It will mean more $$$$.. The same thing happened with music in the 70's to now. [Edited 7/29/09 7:17am] | |
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Bailorin said: Sometimes I find myself resisting the urge 2 hoik those pants UP!
Or trying 2 surpress laughter when they waddle by like penguins. I'm turning in2 a prude thats a bit different When I go somewhere to pay money and I see employees dressed like that I call owners supervisors and management | |
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Sublety is always dirtier than blatancy to me.
That, I think, is the strength of Prince's earlier material. He was seldom graphic, he let your mind do the imagining. | |
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MantuaPharoah said: Maybe I'm just not hip to the whole "ghetto thug" mentality. I'm sure that has something to do with it.
I don't GET why the 'ghetto thug' image is cool, in reality its not. I've grown in some barios and ghettos in SF and I can honestly say..it should not be glamorized as something COOL. "The voter is less important than the man who provides money to the candidate," - Former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens
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rudedog said: MantuaPharoah said: Maybe I'm just not hip to the whole "ghetto thug" mentality. I'm sure that has something to do with it.
I don't GET why the 'ghetto thug' image is cool, in reality its not. I've grown in some barios and ghettos in SF and I can honestly say..it should not be glamorized as something COOL. I don't get it either. I understand that the image that Prince portrayed when I became a fan in 1984 wasn't exactly "wholesome", and is/was far from that of the "model male", however, the ghetto thug mentality today is just disrespectful. It's about "how disrespectful can I be"... and not take any responsibility for it? I'll even go as far as to say that Prince's Dirty Mind era image might have been tasteless, but it wasn't that of a "low life" and grimey mentality. It amazes me how artist today can write songs about how "We don't love dem hoes", yet women will still flock to shows and throw panties onstage, and can't wait to go to the afterparty in the hotel. Blatant disrepect... yet millions sold. Whatever... Prince's music may have been sexual and his image may have been that of a scantilly clad man in 4 inch pumps and make-up (Ha!), but he was never about disrespecting women. Purple Rain got some criticism because of a few rough scenes, but you never got the sense that Prince was a misogynist, or a man that would in real life, "slap a bitch"! Maybe I'm getting older... but in no way, shape or form, do I see how this up front blatant ghetto sex with no class whatsoever image/lyrics era, is cool... and it's been going on for a while. But digressing just a bit... Prince has a certain "way" about him. You remember R. Kelly's "Bump n' Grind". Even though "He don't see nothin' wrong" wit a little bump n' grind, he still came off as dirty. Yet for some reason, I'll JAM the heck out of Violet the Organ Grinder! LOL OH BOY!!! lol... Whatever... perhaps I AM somewhat of a hypocrite indeed (although the majority of you say no), but at least Prince is funky... and has a way with words so he doesn't come off as just a dirty dog like many of today's artists. The public is squeezin' you kiddo. You'd better kick ass on your next album or else! |
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I can see the point about all these new songs like Birthday sex being now's answer to Sister, but there are differences we should all notice. I mean like everyone else says, the songs were dirty but downright disrespectful towards women, theres no "Do the fuck as you are told bitch, or I will beat your ass type stuff".
1. Yes Prince recorded a lot of songs with filthy lyrics, but there were dozens of more G rated ones too, to every Sister, theres aPartyup etc. Prince is known by more people for his G rated epics as well as his lusty stuff. Whereas Lil Wayne and these other artists will be 1 or 2 albums of similar sounds at most. 2. Prince has a huge volume of work and has been around for over 30 years, the average pop rapper will not last three. 3. Theres a difference between clever filth and rubbish filth, Sister is quite extreme as far as his filthy songs go, whereas a lot better is a subtle shocker ike Dirty Mind or Do it all night, theres an art to Prince's dirty songs here, the romance and the seductiveness of the lyrics in Do Me Baby, theres none of that in Birthday Sex or the like. 4. All these rappers don't really 'write' songs and none of them can play many instruments if any, a Prince song hes in charge of the lyrics, music, instrumentation, and performing it on stage plus teaching his group, how many rappers like J Holiday or Young Jeezy do that? 5. About the labels telling the rappers/singers how to dress, since when have you heard of a label telling Prince how to dress. Prince defined and created style back then, not followed it. 6. The rap songs are platinum hits that sell many thousands of copies and they are all part of a wider commercialised blingbling culture, whereas Princes music before 1982 was very underground and was only really listened too by a few hundred hardcore fans. Also I considered most of the Prince audience in 1980-82 were probably more mature, intelligent and focussed music fans than the 8-16 age group that is usually attracted to shit hop music. (Ok its generalising, but how many 30 year olds do you know who love Souljah Boy and Lil Wayne) 7. Theres nothing funny about these misogynistic thugs rapping this crap, whereas Prince in 1981-82 would probably be prancing about on stage in his trenchcoat and even jacking off his guitar as well as singing! 8. There might be a lot of sex in these songs, but wheres the love in them, there was something very lovelike in most steamy Prince usic (I suggest a blanket ban on the song Lady Cab Driver to prove this point). 9. Prince's dirtiest songs have more class and than this yo bitch, at least Prince says "I sincerely want to fuck the taste out of your mouth" rather than "Yo bitch I will fuck you blind ho" like a rapper would. Yes it may be a bit hypocritical for us older Prince fans to condemn shit hop, but at least with Prince theres so much more to him than filthy songs, and I think Prince was alot more talented than these thug rappers. Anyone can swear at a drum machine beat and turn lurid misogynistic fantasies on to tape, but a real artist plays them with flair. [Edited 7/29/09 22:56pm] So what are u going 2 do? R u just gonna sit there and watch? I'm not gonna stop until the war is over. Its gonna take a long time | |
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RUHip2TheJive said: ISF said: One of the best, if not the best reply I have seen on this website. Thank you. agreed. great post!  I agree with this post-fantastic. I've always said that about Madonna. I think if she just accepted she was a popstar as Kylie Minogue does then it would be fine-its the self belief in her artistry that is the frustrating bit. Back to the header-what I would add is that when the obscenity is bigger than the sound that is the problem. Prince in the 80's was a lot about questioning sex e.g. How do I square this desire with what I'm thinking is right and wrong. Even where Prince is blatantly jacking off it appears to me like liberation. Ironically it was when he was less obscene that he seemed ruder-what I mean there is the'90's-like the backless pants etc. This was all just cheeky sex and it was Prince impersonating Prince-the sex had no purpose beyond its own gratification. I feel it is when sex is used for this that it becomes wrong. When you watch a movie you can massively tell when a sex scene is being used to grab peoples attention and when it is needed to actuallly fulfil the explanation of the film. | |
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Huggiebear said: ...
Yes it may be a bit hypocritical for us older Prince fans to condemn shit hop, but at least with Prince theres so much more to him than filthy songs, and I think Prince was alot more talented than these thug rappers. Anyone can swear at a drum machine beat and turn lurid misogynistic fantasies on to tape, but a real artist plays them with flair. [Edited 7/29/09 22:56pm] I have been thinking about this thread for a few days... I don't think it has so much to do with age as with a state of mind. I'm 19 and, if I had to choose, I would rather listen to P's most risque songs than a majority of the rap/hip-hop songs that are out there. A lot of the music that is popular now lacks any artful/clever delivery, is crude, and is (like you said) misogynistic. I don't know if it's because I'm biased in P's favor or not, but his music doesn't put me in a negative mindset or leave me feeling uncomfortable. [How am I supposed to enjoy music encouraging violence and the like?] [Edited 7/30/09 11:14am] | |
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FunkDr said: MantuaPharoah - you are not a hypocrite ! There should be no
BUT there is NO defending the ridiculous trend of wearing jeans around your thighs !!! What is it about? How on earth do they think it looks cool? - jeans ruffled and crumpled around your ankles as they shuffle along - not being able to walk properly due to the jeans being done up below their testies!! What sized waist do they have to buy? What sized belt must they get that goes around their legs? Totally stupid and bizarre, let alone a tad unappealing when you get stuck behind a sweat-patched pair of pants, shuffling in front of you!!! So, no - this is not just us getting older and "not getting it" - some things are just wrong, regardless of generation. Yeah...some of the 60s, 70s, 80s trends were a LOT worse! I think it is a generational thing | |
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