Well, In Europe it really started with the Parade-tour probably.

Allthough 'Kiss' and 'Girls and Boys' were played everywhere in the club, i think people still had their doubts about the Parade album in its entirety.

I think the rave reviews the concerts did get in the papers (superlatives like: the best in popmusic since the Beatles, the complete pop-artist etc) did make
the people get more interested in him.

But Sign of the Times was simply everywhere: on the radio, in clubs, during birthday parties i attented it was the music that was played constantly (especially U got the look and the Cross).

What also was important is that Prince moved from the arena's with the Parade tour, to the stadiums with the Sign of the Times tour. Reaching a far bigger crowd.
[Edited 7/24/09 8:34am]

NouveauDance said:

ATWIAD


Man after PR, I and the world was wondering what he was going to feed us next.

And it was ATWIAD (smh).

Granted, it may have been the best move or the ONLY move he could have done considering expectations, but with PR he became "the" rock god. We were waiting to be taken higher, not to Pailey Park(s).

I can imagine that.

But the funny thing is, when you became a fan of Prince later on, like me (with Sign of the Times in my case) ATWIAD doesnt sound THAT different from Purple Rain, to consider it a real watershed.

On ATWIAD the Linn-drum with that typical side-clap was still very prominent in the production, you still have those 'campy' sounding synths on songs like Condition of the Heart and Temptation, the title track shows a high-energy break very typical of earlier Prince (Papa, i think i wanna dance!), the feedback of Paisley Park was there before on Computer Blue, etc.

Okay he uses more (psychedelic) pop-elements, but stylistically he didnt change THAT much from 1999 / Purple Rain. Its more like a natural progress to me.

I think that feel of 'change' has actually more to do with the tone of the songs (more pop then rock), the delivery (a bit more ironic, more subduded) and the lyrics of the songs (more obscure, quasi-religious) then with the actual music itself.

The concept of Purple Rain (the album and movie) echoes the stereotype of 'the american dream': Poor black guy makes it big with his fresh mix of funk and rock.
Not to say that its bad or so: but its clear, and easily recognisable. And therefore maybe more easy to appreciate.
On ATWIAD his intentions are more diffuse, both musically and lyrically, and therefor harder to grasp.

Anxiety said:

I know...I think you qouted the wrong person.

ATWIAD

In terms of business it was catastrophic. I can see the artistic visions he had. But, he lost legions of "Fans" with it. I'm not sure what he could have done to follow up Purple Rain. But, a few Hit Singles couldn't have hurt.

SPOOKYGAS said:

damn i thought i was going 2 b the only one 2 say that this is the album that would do it

Anxiety said:

really? so that in anything u ever did afterwards would 4ever b compared 2 that album u did 25 years later still? whether it would b from ur critics, but even ur own fanbase hangs on2 that album 4 dear life when u have since then composed songs that blow it out of the water.

u still would like ur career ruined then?

I'd bet cash $ that Prince's answer would be "The ones that have not be released".

L4OATheOriginal said:

That's the nature of the beast. Thriller, Piano Man, Innervisions, Joshua Tree, any wildly successful artist is gonna have that one album that people cite as their zenith, regardless of whether or not its true.

I'm sure The Rolling Stones got sick of singing Satisfaction decades ago, but you know what the trade off is? They're the fucking Rolling Stones! So yeah, Prince is never gonna get away from Purple Rain no matter what he does. I doubt he would change a thing.


.
[Edited 7/24/09 10:03am]
[Edited 7/24/09 12:40pm]

L4OATheOriginal said:

I think Anxiety is being sarcastic
There is no way Purple Rain ruined his career

I'm asking what album you think helped to make Prince "irrelevant" in the mainstream.

Definition of irrelevant (adjective)
beside the point; unconnected; impertinent; immaterial

ir·rele·vant·ly adv.
Synonyms: irrelevant, extraneous, immaterial, impertinent
These adjectives mean not pertinent to the subject under consideration: an irrelevant comment; a question extraneous to the discussion; an objection that is immaterial; mentioned several impertinent facts.



Antonym: relevant
relevant - having a bearing on or connection with the subject at issue; "the scientist corresponds with colleagues in order to learn about matters relevant to her own research"

Lol...I never get the people who say to that kind of things.

IMO during his entire career he has 'struggled' with balancing his desires to be very popular / having mainstream succes, being a 'critics darling' and just doing his own (creative) thing.

He has had his periods out the of 'spotlight', but its like he always feels the need to go back to aim for 'general recignition' (and big bucks?) from time to time:
The 'Prince' album was a calculated attempt to quickly record a 'hit-record' after he went way over budget with For You (he did state that himself in interviews).
Prior to Purple Rain his management was doing survey's about what would help him to cross-over to the mainstream public. The answer: more rock.
The Batman-movie was expected to become a blockbuster, so it could be used as a 'device' by Prince to get more mainstream succes.
The Diamonds and Pearls album appears very thought out to me. Not only on a musical level (mixing more traditional, direct songwriting with the popular sounds of Hip-hop, a smoother production) but also image-wise (the typhoon, the outfits of the bandmembers, the gangster glam/Barbarella theme).
Rave Unto the Joy Fantastic is Prince doing a 'Santana'-like comeback (not really succeeding because of lack of quality and lack of promotion, but thats another issue).
Finally, The whole Musicology thing was all about an older, respected musician teaching the young-ones about the 'old skool'. Yet another formula aimed at getting mainstream succes again.

So, to say Prince is an underground-artist, who (accidentally) was a superstar for a while with Purple Rain, is absurd.
His desire to be very popular / (commercially) succesfull keeps popping up regularly, and I dont see it change in the near future.
[Edited 7/24/09 11:50am]

Riverpoet31 said:

yeah and Musicology he was everywhere trying to promote that also that was the same album era/year he reconnected with Sheila E the Time Wendy doing more shows with them

L4OATheOriginal said:

if i ever create anything that brought me THAT much success, i'd thank my lucky stars and i would invest in that success as much as i could. i have a theory that most artists are lucky to have ONE great masterpiece in them, and if they have any more than that, they're REALLY lucky. the success of purple rain has paved the way for prince to do other things. it's given him the money and resources to do things he might not have otherwise been able to do. if that means that joe schmoe in notafam, arizona doesn't realize prince made an album after PR, then so be it.

MantuaPharoah said:

Just curious, who is relevant in the music biz?

Graycap23 said:

in 2009 that's a hard question

the 80's was the last of significant relevancy as far as music is concerned
the 1st part of the 90's had some good things going on, then the clone took over

there are still relevant entertainers whos music/shows continue to cause a stir on a large level: most of them came from the post 90's though

OldFriends4Sale said:

You sound old. So who's still relevant?
[Edited 7/24/09 13:47pm]

ElCapitan said:

The "relevant" artists of today are those whom the majority of CD buyers and casual fans seem to care about and/or get Top 40 airplay.

I would say people like Jay Z, Black Eyed Peas, John Legend, Coldplay, Maroon 5... and dare I say Madonna, etc. Equate "relevant" to "mainstream".

Prince no longer makes waves on the mainstream music scene. That's a simple fact.

I'm sure Prince is fine with his current direction, but the afformentioned "entertainers/artists" are relevant. Prince is no longer.

Let's be honest. I have yet to hear anything from Lotus Flower on the radio.

MantuaPharoah said:

i think prince is relevant in this day and age as part of the "establishment" but not necessarily as part of what's considered hot, hip or trendy. it's like when prince was the hot new thing, james brown was considered relevant, but it's not like the world was watching JB's every move with baited breath or anything. i think prince has aged into that position now.

Anxiety said:

Perfectly stated. Prince is still very well respected, however... I think his "mainstream" time has come and gone.

But it's interesting to wonder if Lotus Flower had been the second coming of PR or SOTT, would he have gotten airplay then.

I think that Lotus Flower is a VERY GOOD CD, with plenty of "airplay" material. But it doesn't get any.

So Anx, that's definitely the case. The world no longer watches P with baited breath... though the world and his peers respect him.
[Edited 7/24/09 14:17pm]

ElCapitan said:

sadly that's what prince has become ..and y i love the gold experience era the best cause there was no more purple rain

OldFriends4Sale said:

not in the way ur thinking of it is with bringing him 2 popularity etc ..but as someone prolific as he his, 2 even have his latest album in one review harking back 2 purple rain ..yeah, it's ruined his career cause he's always compared 2 that height of hysteria instead of a artist that is trying 2 do him

Anxiety said:

r u kidding? i was watching james with full force and wondering who's perm was going 2 xpire 1st

MantuaPharoah said:

He's somebody who people are compared to these days, as opposed to in his heyday, when everyone was comparing him to sly, jimi, james, etc...now he's part of that list of influences.

violetblues said:

-----

AGREED.

If "relevancy" is tied to record sales and Top 40 airplay, then at some point we're asking Prince to defy the nature of the beast that is the Top 40. Look at the Billboard charts and count the number of artists aged 50 plus. Bet you can do it in less than 3 seconds.

No matter how much we might want to deny it, appealing to Top 40 radio is mainly a young man's game (and for every U2 song that pops up once in a while there's a thousand Drake/BEP/Lady Gaga songs). Was that way in the glorious 80's and it still is. Frankly, I think Prince could release the best album of his life tomorrow and the masses under 30 wouldn't give a shit, because he's that legendary guy that their mom listened to way back when.

Doesn't mean that his well-earned place among the music elite is in jeopardy. He's reached a point where he can record and release what he wants, when he wants, and still make a good living without massive record sales. Relevant or not, that's not such a bad place to end up.

"Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic" ? It was his first attempt since Emancipation for a mainstream album, and then after the Crystal Ball debacle and his internet explorations. He made a lot of compromises with this one: lots of featurings and various styles, that ruined the cohesiveness. He made real efforts to be on TV. And then, the disc disappeared. It remained as his unsuccessful attempt to come back, and he had to wait 5 years until "Musicology".

MantuaPharoah said:

If Prince was on major label,they would use their payola to get Chocolate Box on rotation.The compromise would be that Will I Am instead of Q-Tip would be the rapper.He can do deals with Target and get on Ellen and Leno on his own and thats cool.But steady rotation on the radio,even the oldhead classic soul and R&B format would be hard.And thats the path he paved for himself, and
I dont think he's losing sleep with that either.It's not like he had Alex the lion telling him "Don't bite the hand Marty!"..lol

Imo it wasnt a specific album that "hurt" Prince´s career the most.
He lost contact to the Top charts just because he didn´t have a major
label that supported him for 100% anymore.
It´s all about business, not about how good an album really is.
Look at the crap going around in 2day´s charts.
If Sony or WB would like to see Prince in the Top 10, he would be still there.

Prince chose the way he went by himself, so i guess everything is okay for him...
[Edited 7/24/09 17:52pm]