None

He was relevant from For You all the way up to Diamonds & Pearls, with an insanely high relevancy factor from 1980-1988.

, despite "7", was the on the fence regarding relevancy.

Dayclear said:

Your answer is unexpected and thoroughly shocking.

NouveauDance said:

releasing lovesexy instead of the black album

1. Come wasn't released without fanfare... certainly not in the UK. Let's get that straight from the get-go. WB pushed that album bigtime - primetime play on Radio One - featured album across a number of shows, with big build up by DJs, print advertising all over London (where I lived at the time) at least, and the desire to put out a single and video - killed by Prince. NOT WBs fault.

It did, however, hurt his career but that wsa through its association with the name change.

2. Purple Rain/ATWIAD - Not sure. Purple Rain set the bar too high only as far as sales, not as far as quality. To these ears, for example, the next four albums were so much better than PR, as was 1999, and Dirty Mind, that it stands out and hurts because of the glitch in sales.

3. I agree with those that say Emancipation hurt him most. It was the moment Prince had to relaunch his career and he decided not to. There is much to like about Emancipation, but there is a lot of filler and he would have been better advised to cut it out and craft a sharper, neater album with which to announce his freedom from WB's 'chains'... of gold.

that's what I think,

BoySimon said:

Big in the uk=irrelevant

Have you ever noticed that,whenever Prince has a successful album/era,he sorta ruins the momentum with the next album? It's as if he gets bored with success.We've seen this pattern over and over....

Purple Rain (1984)---the world loves him.Prince can do no wrong.
ATWIAD (1985)---he confuses the mainstream and many of them think he's gone nuts,lol.

SOTT (1987)---considered a return to form,with three Top 10 pop hits.
Lovesexy (1988)---an album that only the diehards liked.It flopped and the tour didn't sellout in many cities.

Batman(1989)---back on top,with a Number One hit single ("Batdance").The album goes multi-platinum and suddenly,Prince is "hot" again.
Graffiti Bridge(1990)---need I say more?

Diamonds And Pearls (1991)---A huge comeback,with two Top 10 hit singles.
Love Symbol (1992)---I love this album,but for some reason,it didn't repeat the success of the previous album and Prince soon went with Warners.

ernestsewell said:

That album is what saved him from going down Michael Jackson Avenue. As important as Dirty Mind in making sure he wasn't just another pop star. Did it hurt sales? Yes. Did it hurt his career? No. It is one of the albums that made it.

Honestly.....who cares about the mainstream?

ElCapitan, irrelevant, how? All I'm saying is that Come was not released without fanfare, irrespective of the country within which that 'without fanfare' took place. And, remember, the UK was where he played 21 nights recently - even though I didn't believe he could (agreeing with you somewhat) - and where he chose to 'give' away Planet Earth, etc... the UK has always been a very relevant market as far as Prince is concerned... could you explain your point?

Graycap23 said:

At this moment, (and the last 5 years) Prince.

SPOOKYGAS said:

It seems his fans are more concerned than he is.
Just my 2 pennies.

squirrelgrease said:

You right about "peaks and valleys"...and prince seem to have more VALLEYS than any of the other big names in the biz...think about it, who else has so many flops? COME...GB...THE VAULT...ATWIAD...CHAOS & DISORDER...EMANCIPATION...RAVE 2 THE JOY FANTASTIC...LOVESEXY...& could go on & on...dont get me wrong, some of these are simply brilliant and at times groundbreaking...so when i say "flop" I am simply talking about commercial success...the success(sales)& airplay an artist of Prince's caliber should be generating...so I guess instead, one should be asking what is it about Prince (the person/ musician / the biz man)overall thats limiting /stifling his bankability?

oops
[Edited 7/24/09 6:21am]

What does "irrelevant" in the mainstream mean? Sounds to me like it is just code for "popular".

Like many people have said, many albums that made his career have not been "popular". Dirty Mind being the best example. Furthermore, most of his albums since 2004 have been in the top 10 at some point, but have not really altered his career one way or another.

Nowadays, when it comes to being relevant to the mainstream, promotion of an album is more important than what is on the album.

Bottom line: Prince has always had a loyal fanbase. As he has said, none of his albums have been "make or break" some are popular with the masses(Musicology), some are not (The Rainbow Children). At the end of the day, he is still Prince...straddling the line between pop and art.
[Edited 7/24/09 6:26am]

3232 said:

ATWIAD sold 3 million - not a flop.

GB and Lovesexy were both Number 1 albums in the UK, and I suspect did quite well in other European markets.

I'm not saying he hasn't had any flop albums - but not as many as you make out.

SPOOKYGAS said:

Prince is well aware of the fact that he's not going to be on MTV any longer and frankly hardly any videos show there anymore anyway. When they do show a video of any black artist it's a drug referencing/booty popping/look at my money/check out my car video. Only white artists are allowed some artistic integrity on MTV and they wouldn't have it any other way. Radio isn't much better with what they push as new and hot in the world of R&B. If Prince sold out years ago and went with this formula to get the "relevancy" you all claim he's lost then you'd no longer be a fan today. I've been to his shows and trust me "irrelevant" artists don;t sell out MSG or the O2.

I don't agree with people saying: ATWIAD.

It did probably hurt him commercially, indeed. But could he ever have topped the succes he had with Purple Rain, even if he had made a 'Purple Rain, part 2'? I dont think so
But it also paved the way to a sequence of albums (ATWIAD - Lovesexy) that gave him more critical acclaim: he was seen as a more versatile, artistically important musician (especially in Europe).
Next to that it helped him develop his OWN creativity: it gave him the opportunity of trying out new styles, songstructures, sounds, arrangements without having to think TOO much about if his music should score with the 'Purple Rain / mainstream crowd'.

I think the period it went 'wrong' was in the mid-90's: both among the mainstream public as among music critics / 'serious' music lovers he lost a lot of popularity.
As others here have said: I think its hard to name a particular album from that period that was responsible for the downfall, but i think you can see certain patterns.

When it comes to the critical acclaim of his music, people were allready 'complaining' in the first half of the nineties: a sort of general consensus seemed to be his albums werent as good anymore in its entirety. 'Too long,' or 'too many filler', or 'nothing he hasnt done before' you could often read in the reviews.
But at the same time he still was respected because on every album from that period there could be found a small number of great/innovative/classic songs that showed he still 'HAD IT' (The Question of U, Joy in Repitition, Money don't Matter Tonight, Seven, to name a few).
When the battle with WB emerged, with the whole name change thing, the obligational contract-records etc. I think people did get a bit tired for looking for such 'diamonds in the rough'. The whole path of new releases, under two different names, did get messy and confused, and weak albums like Come (which did receive pisspoor reviews) and New Power Soul didnt exactly 'invite' critics to keep following his career closely.
The Gold Experience and even Emancipation did receive some very good individual reviews, but it seems the majority of the music following crowd had lost interest in his career.

When it comes to the public perception of Prince (aka his mainstream succes) I think the whole WB-battle / name-change / Slave-thing was even more disastrous.
I remember people saying things around that time like: 'What a freak. He is turning into some Michael Jackson'.
It did get perceived as excentricity and weirdness in the first place, and overshadowed his musical releases.
What didnt help of course was how badly his new releases were managed: I think many folks didnt even know Come was released as a new album, allthough Letitgo was a minor (radio)hit. The most beautifull girl was his biggest hit since Cream, but the corresponding album (Gold) was released way too late after it. Emancipation was, of course, expansive to buy as a 3CD-set. And the whole slave / record-battle thing, which annoyed people, did obviously withhold them from paying their bucks for it.

I think because of this 'mess' in the mid nineties Princes career remained very low-profile from 1996 unto 2004.
Maybe it made Prince think: You dont want me anymore? well then i do it on my own terms, and for my own crowd. In this period he was focussing himself on a small 'Fam'-crowd with his NPGmusicclub, the Crystal Ball-set and internet-releases like The Chocolate Invasion and The Slaughterhouse.
It also felt to me as if he didnt feel the need to 'impress' the critics anymore. The New Power Soul record and the Larry Graham / Chaka Kahn productions gave me the feeling he 'just' wanted to play the 'oldskool' music he liked from his childhood: classic funk, disco and soul.

Rave unto the Joy fantastic was obviously meant to be a commercial comeback like Santana had done a few years before: invite some famous guests and create a rather 'contemporary sounding album.
But when i listen to that album its like he just isnt 'into it'. Its like someone advised him to do it, but his mind isnt really there. It came to early i think. And again, this album was very poorly promoted.

Somehow it gave way to an even more 'obscure' period: The Rainbow Children and News are among his most uncompromising albums. It sounds like he is simply playing the music he likes to play, and sings the lyrics he wants to sing, without giving a damn of it sells or how other people will receive it in general.

But, in the end, i think Prince still remains an artist who likes the respect and attention from others, who wants to be loved by critics and the public.
A person also who likes to keep a certain 'life-style' intact. So yes, the cash probably needed to flow again.
So this 2004 comeback with Musicology album and tour seemed inevitable to me.

3232 said:

to put ATWIAD in the same catagory as the rest of this doesn't work
ATWIAD may only have made 3 Million but as far as artistry it didn't flop
from stretching out musically to the b-sides there is no flop there
the Raspberry Beret video really showed another side to him and the video was vote in the top 5 best videos

Flop? doubt it
[Edited 7/24/09 7:09am]

ElCapitan said:

Don't be daft.

thedance said:

I agree that Come is a "decent" album. I LOVED the title track the first time I heard it, and still groove to it in my car when I'm out on the prowl.

After Come in 1994 came the release of The Black Album, which only us die hards cared about. After that came The Gold Experience. That album had TMBGITW and Shhh... but I think that by then, Prince had already became irrelevant. Music was changing, the whole "Slave" thing was brewing, and then came Chaos and Disorder which NOBODY cared about.

I think that (and I could be wrong here), but when Prince signed that $100 million dollar deal with Warner Brothers, and then got pissed bout WB not allowing him to do what he wanted, that also made him look bad. It was kinda like these multi-million dollar athletes complaining about not getting the ball enough, or limited playing time.

I think the majority of former fans were like... "Dude, you just signed for $100 million, and you've got SLAVE on your face?? What the fuck???"

Prince went on Oprah to promote Emancipation, but it wasn't Purple Rain, and because of the WB thing, it got NO airtime! In fact, I don't think I've EVER heard a single song from Emancipation played on the radio. Well... maybe Somebody's Somebody... as a part of a hip hop mix.

And by the time of Rave Unto The Joy Fantastic (1999), Prince had become passe.

So that's why I think Come signaled the downfall. Too many up and down albums... lack of consistency and dare I say... direction.

HOWEVER... you could also argue Lovesexy (1988)

Good album... don't get me wrong, but I'm sure Prince lost alot of "street cred" with that cover, and Alphabet Street... while a hit... wasn't a rock or funk smash.

Then came Batman. Once again... GOOD ALBUM... I still listen to it to this day... but it was a soundtrack, and really catered more to kids. The hit song was "Batdance". (Gimme a break. That ain't "hot" in the clubs")

Also, I used to be a DJ for a college station around that time, and my partner and I would do local gigs at skating rinks and parties. I remember doing a birthday party and running out of material, so I put on Partyman. The kids (7-11 year olds) LOVED it!!! They cheered BATMAN!!!

That was kinda wild. I was thinkin'... hmmm... kids?? Prince is in trouble! LOL

And then came the godawful movie Grafitti Bridge... No comment. Whatever direction Prince was going... with the whole God and spirituality... just lost EVERYBODY.

I think people still knew he could make hits at that point in 1989 (hence Diamonds and Pearls), but I think that once Come came out in 1994, people gave up on Prince. His relevance was virtually gone... except to US here at the Org! LOL

Sorry for the novel
[Edited 7/24/09 7:28am]

Anxiety said:

that only favored warner bros. not prince in any way....perfect time for THEM.
but not for a prolific artist...

ATWIAD hurt his comercial appeal but it did recieve artistic criticle acclaim.

Riverpoet31 said:

I think it's his fans who want some validation that the person they're supporting can hit the top of the charts at any given moment. The Org. is full of fans who claim to know what Prince should be doing with his career and can tell him exactly where he went "wrong". 30 years in this business is not a sign of failure and should never be considered one. He has had weaker albums (The Rainbow Children, Planet Earth) in my eyes but that determination is still subjective and strictly my opinion not the litmus test we all should adhere to.

To me there was two:LoveSexy and the symbol album. LoveSexy was just terrible and got such bad press with the album cover.The symbol album was a let down.Everyone was waiting for Diamonds and Pearls pt II and we didn't get. It turned out to be a bootleg Chronic cd. What killed his career... The name change and filler cd's. The avg person didn't understand everything and he just seemed crazy. He should have just worked a few more years WB. It wasn't like he was dropping the bombs under his new name. Plus, where is all the music "3 albums or more per year?" He lost a lot. By the time Emancipation came no on cared.

funksterr said:

Good point. I think that just when Prince was getting his groove back after SOTT, which had some HOT stuff for the R&B people (Sign o', Adore), and some HOT stuff for Rockers (U Got the Look, I Could Never...) , and some HOT stuff for FREAKS (If I was your Girlfriend, It, etc.), he comes out with Lovesexy... which really catered to None of the Above... and just like that, he was back on an island again, just like he was after ATWIAD and Parade.

I still don't think Lovesexy hurt his career the most, but I see your point.

prime said:

I don't think the Symbol Album hurt his career. It came right after D&P, and right before Come. That had/has some hit material, and wasn't promoted well at all!

Sexy MF was hot, The Morning Papers could have been a hit, Blue Light could have gotten some air play, 7 was decent, The Continental could have been a hit... and that's just off the top of my head.

Oh... And God Created Woman is AMAZING! Could have been a nice radio tune.

I think the Symbol Album was a little bit of a comeback... albeit a drop off from the commercial success of D&P, but proved he still had the talent to be creative and groundbreaking... but by the time Come came out 2 years later, and with only Letitgo getting radio play... black radio at that... Prince was pretty much done being relevant.

So I still say Come was the album that hurt his career the most. Very self-indulged... albeit good to many fans... but offered very little to sustain his dimishing reign.

I dont think over here in Europe (at least in the Netherlands, where I live), people were really turned of by the Lovesexy sleeve.
I mean: it was more like it made then laugh, and made them curious about the music inside.

Purple Rain might have been Princes commercial peak in the states, but it wasnt untill Sign of the Times (the album AND the shows) that he really became a commercial hype in Europe.
So he had gained a lot of 'credit' over here right before Lovesexy did came out, and it didnt really stop new fans from trying out the new album.

The main complaint these 'new' (maybe more casual) fans had about Lovesexy was that many of them simply didn't GET the music.
How artistically important SOTT might be, it still was an album with a lot of commercial appeal: sing along melodies, catchy tunes, good beats to dance to, and something for everything to love: rockier songs for the rocklovers (The Cross, ICNTTPOYM), poppier songs to score in the hitparade and the club (U got the Look), weirder artistic ones (If I was your girlfriend), etc.

Lovesexy is a much more daring album sonically and in terms of arrangements. Something you have to take effort for to truelly understand and appreciate.
Its like going from, lets say, Thriller, to a Frank Zappa live-record.
Lovesexy is full with dissonant harmonies, rhythem changes, jazzy textures, and most songs mix several musical styles in complex ways: not exactly an album (for many people, that is) to enjoy on face value.

I remember when Batman came out, that people around me said: I like this one more then the last one (Lovesexy). That one was so weird.
I think that the simplicity and directness of Batman appealed more to those 'casual fans'.

But to recapture: Lovesexy 'just' went gold here, while Sign sold double platinum.
[Edited 7/24/09 8:19am]

Riverpoet31 said:

I thought it was Parade that really got it going in Europe, he sure fell in love with Europe during the Parade era

I think ATWIAD would be on the top of my list..however it is 1 of my fave albums and shows prince is a bit more daring than ur casual "pop artist" I think after the brilliant "MAIN STREAM" album that was Purple Rain, people expected a repeat of the same album and style...kinda like U2 have been doing for years very succsefully

But more importantly the main thing that hurt his career was not any of his albums...it was prince himself not his music...and hes still hurting it more as time goes on