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peter430044 said: NouveauDance said: I don't really think 'Come' itself hurt Prince's commercial career, the material itself was sound - it was just the entire P.R. mess at that time that hampered the momentum.
Come didn't feature MBGITW, a number one single, Letitgo, a real buzz kill of a track, was the lead single, with no video or promo. Space was a brilliant song, and single, but again, no video and no promo. The album didn't stand a chance, not to mention Prince sabotaging it before it had even been released by removing top drawer tracks. I actually thought recently how cool a video for Space would've been. Some of you might know 'Put Yourself In My Place' by Kylie Minogue, the video has a Barbarella theme, and this is pretty dorky to say, but I think it would've worked brilliantly as a video for Space with Prince in Kylie's part (she's basically stripping out of a pink space suit orbiting in a spacecraft) - I think it would've really suited the song and Prince's androgynous look, would've got tongues wagging no doubt - very camp, risque, but no more so than stuff he'd done before. The more I look back, the more I think what a missed opportunity the 93/94 period was. I guess the name change and anger at Warners at the time fuelled and created a lot of the energy then, so without it, it might not have produced the same great vibe in the music, but there was so many great tracks then that were really distinct, and fresh, it could've done more than it did - Hit singles, better videos, remixes, EPs, all that stuff, I don't just mean sales and MTV rotation. It's a shame. Back on topic: ATWIAD was a buzz killer, but again, it also showed Prince could do different things and he wouldn't be pigeonholed, a quality that stood him in good stead in the long term I think. Lovesexy's cover and relatively weak single choices and Graffiti Bridge the movie are also contenders, but again they each have their plus sides that would be hard to cast out from history if we had a time eraser  Which songs are you referring to that he removed from the final Come sequence? Would be interesting to know. http://en.wikipedia.org/w...28album%29 "What kind of fuck ending is that?" |
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ElCapitan said: peter430044 said: Which songs are you referring to that he removed from the final Come sequence? Would be interesting to know. http://en.wikipedia.org/w...28album%29 Thanks! I think it would've felt a little strange if rock songs like Interactive and Peach had been on Come given the vibe of the rest of the album. | |
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Se7en said: SPOOKYGAS said: Purple Rain.
You know, once you get over the shock of thinking this, it's actually quite true. no. that album opened ENORMOUS doors for prince. it gave him more resources than he'd ever had, more clout, more privilege, more of lots of things. i do see your point, and in some kind of alternate reality universe, you probably DO have a good point, but in this universe, i'd be really happy to have MY career ruined by something as successful as a "purple rain". | |
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Anxiety said: Se7en said: You know, once you get over the shock of thinking this, it's actually quite true. no. that album opened ENORMOUS doors for prince. it gave him more resources than he'd ever had, more clout, more privilege, more of lots of things. i do see your point, and in some kind of alternate reality universe, you probably DO have a good point, but in this universe, i'd be really happy to have MY career ruined by something as successful as a "purple rain". Well, he couldn't live up to people's expectations after Purple Rain but this was the album that made Prince a really big star. | |
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Anxiety said: Se7en said: You know, once you get over the shock of thinking this, it's actually quite true. no. that album opened ENORMOUS doors for prince. it gave him more resources than he'd ever had, more clout, more privilege, more of lots of things. i do see your point, and in some kind of alternate reality universe, you probably DO have a good point, but in this universe, i'd be really happy to have MY career ruined by something as successful as a "purple rain". All true. He set the bar impossibly high for himself on that one, and raised our expectations impossibly high at times too. But, without Purple Rain, we might not be speaking of him in the same regard. He might've been a talented, but "normal" act. |
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peter430044 said: Anxiety said: no. that album opened ENORMOUS doors for prince. it gave him more resources than he'd ever had, more clout, more privilege, more of lots of things. i do see your point, and in some kind of alternate reality universe, you probably DO have a good point, but in this universe, i'd be really happy to have MY career ruined by something as successful as a "purple rain". Well, he couldn't live up to people's expectations after Purple Rain but this was the album that made Prince a really big star. he consciously TRIED to defy people's expectations after purple rain. it's not even like he made an attempt and failed. he WANTED to take a sharp turn with ATWIAD. and even though as a result, sales might not have been as stellar as purple rain, it's not like ATWIAD was a huge failure by any means. | |
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Anxiety said: peter430044 said: Well, he couldn't live up to people's expectations after Purple Rain but this was the album that made Prince a really big star. he consciously TRIED to defy people's expectations after purple rain. it's not even like he made an attempt and failed. he WANTED to take a sharp turn with ATWIAD. and even though as a result, sales might not have been as stellar as purple rain, it's not like ATWIAD was a huge failure by any means. He wanted to surprise people with ATWIAD but I think he thought it would be a pretty huge success. [Edited 7/23/09 17:25pm] | |
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Purple Rain was not a benchmark that he couldnt reach again..ATWIAD and Parade were chances for him to broaden musically and ride the wave of his PR success to get away with it.He peaked again with SOTT. so that showed that he could make a classic album to rival PR.If he just wasnt all nekkid on the Lovesexy cover I wonder if it wouldve been accpeted more.after the Graffiti Bridge disaster he makes another successful album with D&P.Then comes(which is my choice) o(+> .It wasnt his worse album but this is when he tried to keep up instead of innnovate.All of the horrible rappin and the theme of the album just didnt work for many listeners.He starts using the symbol as his name.Then the drama with WB starts and he disappears for a while(Hits and B Sides comes out next,then Come with no promotion).By the time Come is released he's already out of the mainstream's immediate view and now only relevant to his die hard fans.IMO | |
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peter430044 said: Anxiety said: he consciously TRIED to defy people's expectations after purple rain. it's not even like he made an attempt and failed. he WANTED to take a sharp turn with ATWIAD. and even though as a result, sales might not have been as stellar as purple rain, it's not like ATWIAD was a huge failure by any means. He wanted to surprise people with ATWIAD but I think he thought it would be a pretty huge success. [Edited 7/23/09 17:25pm] i dunno. i think he was gunning for more critical/fan success with ATWIAD. why else would he make announcements that he was retiring from touring, and why would he try to keep from releasing singles or videos? i don't think mass appeal was at the top of his priority list after purple rain, at least not in any conventional sense. | |
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Anxiety said: peter430044 said: He wanted to surprise people with ATWIAD but I think he thought it would be a pretty huge success. [Edited 7/23/09 17:25pm] i dunno. i think he was gunning for more critical/fan success with ATWIAD. why else would he make announcements that he was retiring from touring, and why would he try to keep from releasing singles or videos? i don't think mass appeal was at the top of his priority list after purple rain, at least not in any conventional sense. Perhaps. | |
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SPOOKYGAS said: Purple Rain. Very good point. The world judges ever other Prince album by that one. And it's not even the best one. | |
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peter430044 said: Which songs are you referring to that he removed from the final Come sequence? Would be interesting to know.
Specifically I was thinking of Interactive and Endorphinmachine. Both of which are hit single-worthy IMO. Also agree with violetblues above about Emancipation. After the big hoopla of him saving his best for being free - it was a big "is this it?" It sounded like a really watered down, stretched thin version of the stuff he'd already done on Gold. Some nice songs, but way too few ideas to fill 3 discs and the production especially is way off mark, so pedestrian and lifeless that a flat studio jerk off like 'Joint 2 Joint' was considered by some to be really inventive and mindblowing at the time. Rave is a worse album by far, it's like a truncated version of Emancipation, but so few cared by that point, I can't see how it could've hurt his career in the slightest. The past decade has been a meteoric ascent in comparison. | |
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Anxiety said: peter430044 said: Well, he couldn't live up to people's expectations after Purple Rain but this was the album that made Prince a really big star. he consciously TRIED to defy people's expectations after purple rain. it's not even like he made an attempt and failed. he WANTED to take a sharp turn with ATWIAD. and even though as a result, sales might not have been as stellar as purple rain, it's not like ATWIAD was a huge failure by any means. | |
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Lovesexy. He was damaged enough by atwiad and parade, but Lovesexy was indefensible. It's a great "Prince' album for diehards who can tolerate a bit of corniness from Prince, but offered nothing for the average music fan that they would recognize. Levert and Guy were killing it in r&b, hip-hop was becoming mainstream and Prince was in his own little drugged out world. | |
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NouveauDance said: peter430044 said: Which songs are you referring to that he removed from the final Come sequence? Would be interesting to know.
Specifically I was thinking of Interactive and Endorphinmachine. Both of which are hit single-worthy IMO. Also agree with violetblues above about Emancipation. After the big hoopla of him saving his best for being free - it was a big "is this it?" It sounded like a really watered down, stretched thin version of the stuff he'd already done on Gold. Some nice songs, but way too few ideas to fill 3 discs and the production especially is way off mark, so pedestrian and lifeless that a flat studio jerk off like 'Joint 2 Joint' was considered by some to be really inventive and mindblowing at the time. Rave is a worse album by far, it's like a truncated version of Emancipation, but so few cared by that point, I can't see how it could've hurt his career in the slightest. The past decade has been a meteoric ascent in comparison. | |
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Vendetta1 said: Anxiety said: he consciously TRIED to defy people's expectations after purple rain. it's not even like he made an attempt and failed. he WANTED to take a sharp turn with ATWIAD. and even though as a result, sales might not have been as stellar as purple rain, it's not like ATWIAD was a huge failure by any means. well, the unromantically honest part of me believes that there's more to the story than we're led to believe about the ATWIAD deal, and it probably had to do with WB making prince do things he didn't want to do, so he threw tantrums and played games of career sabotage to piss them off. NAH, that doesn't sound like prince at all. 
but if indeed he did make that sharp left turn after purple rain for purely artistic reasons, it's hard to say if he got what he wanted. part of me thinks he wanted to make his brainy/introspective singer-songwriter album a la joni mitchell or some of stevie's more experimental albums, which would serve as a balance to the big ballbusting arena monster that was purple rain. i dunno if, in retrospect, it worked out that way. probably moreso than if he had worked his butt off to make "purple rain 2", i guess.  | |
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Anxiety said: Vendetta1 said: I think Prince thought he could use PR to get an audience that would hang around for future projects. But just like now, everyone only loves what's popular.
well, the unromantically honest part of me believes that there's more to the story than we're led to believe about the ATWIAD deal, and it probably had to do with WB making prince do things he didn't want to do, so he threw tantrums and played games of career sabotage to piss them off. NAH, that doesn't sound like prince at all.
but if indeed he did make that sharp left turn after purple rain for purely artistic reasons, it's hard to say if he got what he wanted. part of me thinks he wanted to make his brainy/introspective singer-songwriter album a la joni mitchell or some of stevie's more experimental albums, which would serve as a balance to the big ballbusting arena monster that was purple rain. i dunno if, in retrospect, it worked out that way. probably moreso than if he had worked his butt off to make "purple rain 2", i guess. | |
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Anxiety said: Vendetta1 said: I think Prince thought he could use PR to get an audience that would hang around for future projects. But just like now, everyone only loves what's popular.
well, the unromantically honest part of me believes that there's more to the story than we're led to believe about the ATWIAD deal, and it probably had to do with WB making prince do things he didn't want to do, so he threw tantrums and played games of career sabotage to piss them off. NAH, that doesn't sound like prince at all.
but if indeed he did make that sharp left turn after purple rain for purely artistic reasons, it's hard to say if he got what he wanted. part of me thinks he wanted to make his brainy/introspective singer-songwriter album a la joni mitchell or some of stevie's more experimental albums, which would serve as a balance to the big ballbusting arena monster that was purple rain. i dunno if, in retrospect, it worked out that way. probably moreso than if he had worked his butt off to make "purple rain 2", i guess. the thing about ATWIAD is that he could have had both. he could have had Purple Rain part 2 AND the keleidescopic, psychedelic, lyrically expanded, artsy album. because it's almost there. when you think about the other songs that we've heard that were given to others or still remain uneleased, he could have had the best of both worlds. i guess with me, i really dig the album pretty much all the way up until the last 2 songs and it completely falls apart for me. totally cheapens the rest of it and i walk away thinking "wow, what a piece of shit" when it's no such thing. hell, i even like Temptation! but you know, there's that ending part... | |
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you guys are nuts.. COME is a fantastic album, my fave of the 1990s - together with Gold.
It's a FAR FAR better album than post 1995 albums. Come U should do that baby no more will U Cry.... and it went to # 1 in the UK !! I guess some americans don't care much about that, or maybe some of you americans don't know. 
C-O-M-E..... great album....   [Edited 7/23/09 18:07pm] Prince 4Ever. | |
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Vendetta1 said: Anxiety said: well, the unromantically honest part of me believes that there's more to the story than we're led to believe about the ATWIAD deal, and it probably had to do with WB making prince do things he didn't want to do, so he threw tantrums and played games of career sabotage to piss them off. NAH, that doesn't sound like prince at all.
but if indeed he did make that sharp left turn after purple rain for purely artistic reasons, it's hard to say if he got what he wanted. part of me thinks he wanted to make his brainy/introspective singer-songwriter album a la joni mitchell or some of stevie's more experimental albums, which would serve as a balance to the big ballbusting arena monster that was purple rain. i dunno if, in retrospect, it worked out that way. probably moreso than if he had worked his butt off to make "purple rain 2", i guess. i love it too, but i think print/TV/radio promotion in the 80s meant a lot more than it does now, and prince was being a flake about all those mediums. i think he made himself less visible, and it ended up costing him the audience who followed his every move a year before. i remember 'raspberry beret' being a big success in 85, the single AND the video. but there was no tour. no real television appearances to speak of. there was the rolling stone interview and the live aid video and what else...? even the 'america' video and interview on MTV was more of a preview of UTCM than it was promotion for ATWIAD, ya know? | |
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squirrelgrease said: It wasn't Purple Rain Part 2, so the fair-weather fans went elsewhere. But I don't know that it hurt his career. A career in music that lasts for thirty-plus years will have peaks and valleys.
I'm not particularly sure that an album could ever do the damage that his reputation as a litigious, cash-centric and spoiled nut-job have done. You're smart enough to see beyond the Prince quote on ATWIAD though. Take out Purple Rain and put ATWIAD after 1999. Still a stinker in the scheme of his career. | |
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Any fan of Prince before PR knew he would never make a PR part2.The new found fans were about have their loyalty tested..lol.A album so much different than PR and a drastic visual change and yada yada yada.But this album didnt hurt his career. | |
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ATWIAD is brilliant, but I think Prince wanted to create something SPECIAL/ different with that album rather than to make a follow up to PR:
With Purple Rain Prince was center of complete hysteria, He had to make a different alternative album to trying to escape that hysteria. I think Prince had a 'fuck you - attitude' when he made that excellent album, and jesus... we got spoiled: the 12" versions, the b-sides, the album itself, a 100% funkyyyyy masterpiece. 
[Edited 7/23/09 18:39pm] Prince 4Ever. | |
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SavonOsco said: Any fan of Prince before PR knew he would never make a PR part2.The new found fans were about have their loyalty tested..lol.A album so much different than PR and a drastic visual change and yada yada yada.But this album didnt hurt his career.
I don't know, at the time it was pretty easy to see the connection between Dirty Mind, Controversy, 1999, PR, and expect to get more of that "minneapolis sound" but even better. ATWIAD was a serious left turn, even for the old school fans (just ask vainandy). That said, I personally think that if he had released PR 2 he would have been dangerously close to getting pigeonholed as a one-trick synth/funk/rock pony. So it probably did his career more good in the long run to release ATWIAD and take the hit on his mass appeal and broaden peoples expectations about what Prince music could be. [Edited 7/23/09 18:44pm] "What kind of fuck ending is that?" |
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damn double post... [Edited 7/23/09 18:45pm] "What kind of fuck ending is that?" |
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thedance said: you guys are nuts.. COME is a fantastic album, my fave of the 1990s - together with Gold.
It's a FAR FAR better album than post 1995 albums. Come U should do that baby no more will U Cry.... and it went to # 1 in the UK !! I guess some americans don't care much about that, or maybe some of you americans don't know.
C-O-M-E..... great album....
[Edited 7/23/09 18:07pm] I agree, as flawed an album that it is, its about the only 90's album that has aged well. Take away the slurping sounds from the title track, and eliminate the final track, and you have a great album. [Edited 7/23/09 18:44pm] | |
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I was going to jump right in and say Chaos and Disorder, but after reading through, I have to grudgingly agree with ATWIAD...personally one of my faves, but I can remember being stationed in Germany and playing it for my roommates...they were big PR-Prince fans...and they looked at me like I cursed their mothers out...
I thought SoTT would bring many back into the fold, but Grafilthy Bitch killed that thought (the movie....the album kinda grew on me as the years passed...) and then the whole name thing came along and really alienated anyone who was a casual fan or there-abouts... He was like a cock who thought the sun had risen to hear him crow.
(George Eliot) the video for the above... 
http://www.youtube.com/wa...re=related | |
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reneGade20 said: I was going to jump right in and say Chaos and Disorder, but after reading through, I have to grudgingly agree with ATWIAD...personally one of my faves, but I can remember being stationed in Germany and playing it for my roommates...they were big PR-Prince fans...and they looked at me like I cursed their mothers out...
I thought SoTT would bring many back into the fold, but Grafilthy Bitch killed that thought (the movie....the album kinda grew on me as the years passed...) and then the whole name thing came along and really alienated anyone who was a casual fan or there-abouts...  | |
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ElCapitan said: SavonOsco said: Any fan of Prince before PR knew he would never make a PR part2.The new found fans were about have their loyalty tested..lol.A album so much different than PR and a drastic visual change and yada yada yada.But this album didnt hurt his career.
I don't know, at the time it was pretty easy to see the connection between Dirty Mind, Controversy, 1999, PR, and expect to get more of that "minneapolis sound" but even better. ATWIAD was a serious left turn, even for the old school fans (just ask vainandy). That said, I personally think that if he had released PR 2 he would have been dangerously close to getting pigeonholed as a one-trick synth/funk/rock pony. So it probably did his career more good in the long run to release ATWIAD and take the hit on his mass appeal and broaden peoples expectations about what Prince music could be. [Edited 7/23/09 18:44pm] Exactly,remember when he made that comment about looking for the ladder and sometimes it snows in april when he was cutting back from touring after the purple rain tour?.He was letting u know then that he was working on those two albums and UTCM.the reason why i dont think it hurt his career as much as other albums is because he recovered very well with SOTT | |
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ATWIAD helped his career.
Let's face it, he was never going to be able to sustain the success of the Purple Rain period. It would be useless to try and recapture that success on the next project because it would have seemed like a lame attempt at repeating himself instead of being a visionary artist. If Prince had tried to bottle Purple Rain fame and kept up with blatantly flogging that horse, he may have had some more short-term Top 40 success, but he wouldn't be viewed as the fearless artist he is today - someone not afraid to do what he wanted. ATWIAD was still commercially successful, and it was on his terms, and led the way for masterpieces like Parade and SOTT. * * *
Prince's Classic Finally Expanded The Deluxe 'Purple Rain' Reissue http://www.popmatters.com...n-reissue/ | |
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