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PrintableTyphoonTip said: unique said: i've long thought about that idea when it comes to people mentioning folks like michael jackass as the best, as he would be nothing if he didn't have that tag, he would just be another pop start churning out more shit records after his popular ones 25 years ago i don't give two shits who is the best, as it's not going to affect my life in any way, so i can look on things objectively. there are a ton of great acts i like who are never going to get big in a month of sundays, but i don't care, i just listen to the music and maybe go to the gigs. personally i prefer bans when they aren't so big because i can go to a concert and actually see them onstage without having 15,000 people in front of me or not get a ticket because it's sold out. i like standing front row at prince aftershows all the time, i liked being front row at all the ONA shows with no barriers and everything was chilled out. if there was a greater artist than prince, i would probably listen to them and follow thier music too. i probably do already to anyone that anyone can come up with as a potential candidate for best ever i've studied music for a long time, i have formal qualifications in studying music history and as an artform, rather than the playing of music, and i have worked in record stores when people still bought records, and dj'ed in clubs when people still used records and then cds, so i also have a working knowledge of all sorts of music, good and bad, new and old. i geniunely think if people put aside the ego or personal bias, and those with a real understanding of the history of music critiqued this question, they would come up with prince as number one artist of all time. whilst i am a big fan of prince, out of most jobs i have done in the past few years, i have had to make unbiased decisions of life affecting matters on a regular basis, i'm aware that few people do this and few people can easily do this, but it's worth pointing out. if i felt prince was number 2 or number 20 or number 100, then i'd be clear about it. the problem with these type of questions is that few people responding can answer without bias and with the correct amount of musical knowledge thats required to accurately answer such as question, thus the end result is a matter of personal opinion, and being asked on the fansite of the artist in question it's understandable that artist will be selected as number one, but ask the same question on a general forum elsewhere and i'm sure the same can be agreed I'm not quite sure why you felt the need to detail your education. Surely you're not suggesting that YOU are somehow better qualified to judge whether one artist is 'better' than another? You certainly seem to be saying this by mentioning that you've had to make objective decisions in your working life! If the former is correct, then that is one of the more elitist and ridiculous things I've read on any forum. The great equalizing quality about any art form, is that it doesn't require 'qualifications' to appreciate it, or for it to make you feel something. I'm afraid you have completely missed the point. I'm not suggesting that it's not possible to discern who's the 'best' because it's not possible for one to be objective; rather I'm stating that the terms ART & BEST are mutually exclusive. Other art forms seem to avoid having individuals singled out as being the 'objective best'. That's because the notion is simply ridiculous. Who is the single BEST painter? Who is the BEST film maker? Who is the single GREATEST author? I feel like I'm stating the obvious, but clearly I'm not. The reason the above questions have no clear objective, universal answers, is two fold. One, the breadth, depth & variety of the artists and their works; and two, that Art, if anything, is an expression of the human condition. And the human condition cannot be neatly detailed in a criteria set. To put it simply, what speaks to one person quite possibly won't speak to another. You can have two intelligent, informed and musically obsessed people with completely different tastes in music. Stretch this to hundreds, thousands, or millions of people, then the likelihood of one artwork or artist 'speaking' to everyone, or even a majority, is unlikely. This point is also conveniently played out in org forums where there is little to no agreement on the 'best' or 'worst' Prince songs, for example. Consensus does not equate to greatness. Music is not a democratic/political process. Finally, I've used the terms 'speak to' & 'feel' when describing the effect a work of art has on an individual. And that's because there are no words to adequately describe the feeling one has when connecting with a work of art. It's completely and utterly unquantifiable. So by suggesting that one artist is the absolute objective best, is also suggesting that those who don't 'feel' that artists work are wrong. Clearly that's ridiculous. I love Prince's work, but it doesn't completely reach me in the same way say Radiohead, Morrissey or Bowie does. I love Prince's guitar work, but then again I also love the work of Jeff Beck and Nuno Bettencourt. The point is, that all these artists are so vastly different that there is no viable means to judge them against one another. But more importantly there is no viable way to compare how these artists 'speak to' or make individuals 'feel'. Art is not science. [Edited 7/31/09 19:47pm] what i'm pointing out is that yes the choice is a matter of opinion, and the opinion can be affected by lack of knowledge of other artists and by personal bias. what i'm saying is that if a group of experienced and knowledgable people got together to draw up a list of who is the best, with a lack of personal bias, prince would be ultimately chosen as the best of all time, and i've explained why, his songwriting, his recorded work, his live work, his musicianship, considering all the points he trumps everyone. he may be more of a jack of all trades rather than overall master in any one specific field, but instead of master of none, he is master of all. and he is still playing live, recording and releasing new music to date, and has done every year for the last 30 years, so you don't know what's coming next, he may well mature and create even better works in his old age | |
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unique said: TyphoonTip said: I'm not quite sure why you felt the need to detail your education. Surely you're not suggesting that YOU are somehow better qualified to judge whether one artist is 'better' than another? You certainly seem to be saying this by mentioning that you've had to make objective decisions in your working life! If the former is correct, then that is one of the more elitist and ridiculous things I've read on any forum. The great equalizing quality about any art form, is that it doesn't require 'qualifications' to appreciate it, or for it to make you feel something. I'm afraid you have completely missed the point. I'm not suggesting that it's not possible to discern who's the 'best' because it's not possible for one to be objective; rather I'm stating that the terms ART & BEST are mutually exclusive. Other art forms seem to avoid having individuals singled out as being the 'objective best'. That's because the notion is simply ridiculous. Who is the single BEST painter? Who is the BEST film maker? Who is the single GREATEST author? I feel like I'm stating the obvious, but clearly I'm not. The reason the above questions have no clear objective, universal answers, is two fold. One, the breadth, depth & variety of the artists and their works; and two, that Art, if anything, is an expression of the human condition. And the human condition cannot be neatly detailed in a criteria set. To put it simply, what speaks to one person quite possibly won't speak to another. You can have two intelligent, informed and musically obsessed people with completely different tastes in music. Stretch this to hundreds, thousands, or millions of people, then the likelihood of one artwork or artist 'speaking' to everyone, or even a majority, is unlikely. This point is also conveniently played out in org forums where there is little to no agreement on the 'best' or 'worst' Prince songs, for example. Consensus does not equate to greatness. Music is not a democratic/political process. Finally, I've used the terms 'speak to' & 'feel' when describing the effect a work of art has on an individual. And that's because there are no words to adequately describe the feeling one has when connecting with a work of art. It's completely and utterly unquantifiable. So by suggesting that one artist is the absolute objective best, is also suggesting that those who don't 'feel' that artists work are wrong. Clearly that's ridiculous. I love Prince's work, but it doesn't completely reach me in the same way say Radiohead, Morrissey or Bowie does. I love Prince's guitar work, but then again I also love the work of Jeff Beck and Nuno Bettencourt. The point is, that all these artists are so vastly different that there is no viable means to judge them against one another. But more importantly there is no viable way to compare how these artists 'speak to' or make individuals 'feel'. Art is not science. [Edited 7/31/09 19:47pm] what i'm pointing out is that yes the choice is a matter of opinion, and the opinion can be affected by lack of knowledge of other artists and by personal bias. what i'm saying is that if a group of experienced and knowledgable people got together to draw up a list of who is the best, with a lack of personal bias, prince would be ultimately chosen as the best of all time, and i've explained why, his songwriting, his recorded work, his live work, his musicianship, considering all the points he trumps everyone. he may be more of a jack of all trades rather than overall master in any one specific field, but instead of master of none, he is master of all. and he is still playing live, recording and releasing new music to date, and has done every year for the last 30 years, so you don't know what's coming next, he may well mature and create even better works in his old age For all your apparent education and 'knowledge', you have a lot to learn about the meaning of art. | |
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TyphoonTip said: unique said: what i'm pointing out is that yes the choice is a matter of opinion, and the opinion can be affected by lack of knowledge of other artists and by personal bias. what i'm saying is that if a group of experienced and knowledgable people got together to draw up a list of who is the best, with a lack of personal bias, prince would be ultimately chosen as the best of all time, and i've explained why, his songwriting, his recorded work, his live work, his musicianship, considering all the points he trumps everyone. he may be more of a jack of all trades rather than overall master in any one specific field, but instead of master of none, he is master of all. and he is still playing live, recording and releasing new music to date, and has done every year for the last 30 years, so you don't know what's coming next, he may well mature and create even better works in his old age For all your apparent education and 'knowledge', you have a lot to learn about the meaning of art. who doesn't. but art can still be compared and judged and critiqued, and from that viewpoint a decision can be agreed within a group as to which is deemed the best, and that is the point of this thread. to ascertain if prince is the best artist of all time, rather than someones personal favourite | |
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unique said: TyphoonTip said: For all your apparent education and 'knowledge', you have a lot to learn about the meaning of art. who doesn't. but art can still be compared and judged and critiqued, and from that viewpoint a decision can be agreed within a group as to which is deemed the best, and that is the point of this thread. to ascertain if prince is the best artist of all time, rather than someones personal favourite Would that not simply be the viewpoint of that group, rather than a universal conclusion? Be sure that you and your learned friends inform us as to which music is the 'best', so we can all get with the program. Oh, & just out of interest, who is the 'best' author or all time? [Edited 8/1/09 3:01am] | |
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TyphoonTip said: unique said: who doesn't. but art can still be compared and judged and critiqued, and from that viewpoint a decision can be agreed within a group as to which is deemed the best, and that is the point of this thread. to ascertain if prince is the best artist of all time, rather than someones personal favourite Would that not simply be the viewpoint of that group, rather than a universal conclusion? Be sure that you and your learned friends inform us as to which music is the 'best', so we can all get with the program. Oh, & just out of interest, who is the 'best' author or all time? [Edited 8/1/09 3:01am] 
i can't read so i can't give an answer about books | |
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unique said: TyphoonTip said: Would that not simply be the viewpoint of that group, rather than a universal conclusion? Be sure that you and your learned friends inform us as to which music is the 'best', so we can all get with the program. Oh, & just out of interest, who is the 'best' author or all time? [Edited 8/1/09 3:01am] i can't read so i can't give an answer about books I got that already.  | |
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No. Nobody is. All subjective.
This thread has me laughing, I've had some terrible concert experiences with some of the 'best ever' including both P and MJ. Of course the great shows are the ones i'll remember most. |
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  I swear the words "HATER" is wayyy over-rated...smh | |
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YES YES AND YES!!!!PRINCE IS THE BEST OF ALL TIME!!!!!  | |
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lladygold said:[quote]YES YES AND YES!!!!PRINCE IS THE BEST OF ALL TIME!!!!! [/quote
I AGREE HE'S FUNKIN AMAZING | |
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be4 pRINCE THERE WAS NO MUSIC | |
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If you're talking about practitioners of pop music in the post rock n roll years then yes, Prince was the best. It's silly to talk about an album like Thriller in this context since that has so many people's fingerprints on it. Prince did it all himself and still produced far more great work than any of his competitors (and Prince certainly sees all great or near-great artists as his competitors).
The Beatles were great but there were 5 of them (including George Martin). Dylan was great, but he didn't play most of the instruments like P did. Stevie Wonder's an obvious comparison, but Prince produced more great work than him over the long haul (equally important, Prince is a far greater live performer than any of these people). For skill, vision, productivity and IMAGINATION, Prince was the best ever. He is also the most UNDERRATED major artist of our time. There are many far less gifted artists than him who are far more praised. [Edited 8/4/09 10:05am] “The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson | |
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midnightmover said: The Beatles were great but there were 5 of them (including George Martin). Dylan was great, but he didn't play most of the instruments like P did. Stevie Wonder's an obvious comparison, but Prince produced more great work than him over the long haul (equally important, Prince is a far greater live performer than any of these people). For skill, vision, productivity and IMAGINATION, Prince was the best ever. He is also the most UNDERRATED major artist of our time. There are many far less gifted artists than him who are far more praised. [Edited 8/4/09 10:05am] Could not have stated it better. | |
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DMSRCMC12 said: be4 pRINCE THERE WAS NO MUSIC
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