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Thread started 06/26/09 12:34pm

GottaLetitgo

Prince's Fame Versus MJ's Fame

Won't post my thoughts on the tragic loss of Michael here. This thread is more about the perception of MJ's fame versus that of Prince's. I was watching the news like so many of us last night and my wife had several of her friends over. I was trying to explain about MJ's fame to my young daughters who really have no concept of who he is and I referred to the Holy Pop Trinity; MJ, Madonna, and Prince. I started talking about how MJ was really famous at a time when other musicians like Prince and Madonna were really popular and one of my wife's friends said "Well Michael was about 100 times more popular than Prince." I did every thing I could not to vehemently disagree and made some comments like "Well you know Purple Rain sold 15 million copies" under my breath.

I guess the point is, from a popularity standpoint, MJ has always been some sort of benchmark that Prince was measured against even if it didn't seem like Prince really cared about that all that much. It was always us fans that pushed it, the cover of an average 1980's "Black Beat" saying something about Prince vs. Michael Jackson: Who's Better? and us fans were always fanning the flames. You couldn't be a fan of one or the other even though like a lot of people I liked them both. Which is to say Prince was the ultimate supreme musician to me but I had 4 or 5 MJ CDs and dug them okay.

I'm rambling but do those of you here think Michael Jackson was always that much more popular than Prince or is that perception? Was he 100 times more popular, 50 times more popular, twice as popular? It's an irrelevant issue but something I definitely thought about last night.

RIP Michael
All good things they say never last...
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Reply #1 posted 06/26/09 12:53pm

xpertluva

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Michael Jackson is definitely more popular than Prince. I'm realizing that the more and more news coverage I see about Michael's death. I was thinking that if Prince died suddenly, you'd probably hear a lot of comments about how he, along with Michael Jackson and Madonna, defined an era. However, I haven't heard even a mention of Prince in conjunction with Michael's contribution to the MTV generation or pop music in the 80's. I'm guessing that, along with the usual pop music demographic, Michael appealed to younger kids and older people that Prince's music didn't speak to.

Still, one hundred times more popular is a gross overstatement. Prince is known by virtually everyone in the world, I'd guess. Purple Rain was HUGE in the 80's and propelled him into a very exclusive club of bonafide superstars.
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Reply #2 posted 06/26/09 1:13pm

xlr8r

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There is no doubt that MJ's popularity reaches far more peeople than Prince. The recent tragedy undersopcres that but Ive already known that for a while. Prince would not get one fourth of the coverage MJ is getting and will get. Dosnt mean anything in the grand scheme of things though.
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Reply #3 posted 06/26/09 1:40pm

GottaLetitgo

xlr8r said:

There is no doubt that MJ's popularity reaches far more peeople than Prince. The recent tragedy undersopcres that but Ive already known that for a while. Prince would not get one fourth of the coverage MJ is getting and will get. Dosnt mean anything in the grand scheme of things though.


I agree, fwiw, that there would not be 24 hour press coverage when the purple man passes on...even though I think he has grown into a kind of elder statesman so to speak of pop. I equate Prince to kind of an Eric Clapton figure right now after his most recent tours.

For whatever reason of which I cannot fathom, you never saw people cry and wail at Prince concerts like they did at MJ concerts.
All good things they say never last...
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Reply #4 posted 06/26/09 2:05pm

Revolution

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No doubt MJ was more popular...but, let's break down why that was so...

MJ played the numbers game...he wanted the top selling everything, and his record co paid for the top producers, paid top dollar for the best videos and in return wanted MJ to be bubblegum...but, his personal life wouldn't go for it.
Maybe the question should be, who was more respected, especially for the last 15 years? Then the answer is clearly Prince, who is still getting props from every and all angles.

MJ sold out for the numbers game...Prince has always done things his way.
Thanks for the laughs, arguments and overall enjoyment for the last umpteen years. It's time for me to retire from Prince.org and engage in the real world...lol. Above all, I appreciated the talent Prince. You were one of a kind.
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Reply #5 posted 06/26/09 2:20pm

buttcheeks

Michael Jackson became the Superstar with an bizarre image that overshadowed his music. His image in the last decade has been the car wreck that everyone slows down to look at. If he wasn't so strange looking and strange acting and never changed his face, I believe people would think differently about him now. In his adult life he attracted our attention with his wierdness far more than his music. Now its wierd that he died.

Prince's Purple Rain is better than Thriller.

Michael wins the popular vote at having the weirdest image.

His Jackson 5 days makes him more popular as a whole.
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Reply #6 posted 06/26/09 2:21pm

DesireeNevermi
nd

MJ's fame would be too big for anwyone to bear. It was for him. rose Prince should be and probably is glad not to have such a level of fame.
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Reply #7 posted 06/26/09 2:29pm

mzspongebob

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I know for a fact that mj was far more popular than prince..i was watching youtube videos yesterday and people were saying r.i.p. from all over the world..the neverlands.. Romania... Barbados... Canada... Germany...u.s. and lots of more places over seas and stuff like that it was amazing its like the whole world stood still when mike died he is def more popular than prince
welp
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Reply #8 posted 06/26/09 2:41pm

darlingnikki19
80

If you watch the news coming out of various countries around the world, it's obvious that Michael has had more global impact than Prince. Prince is always my main man but I was a Michael fan too, for different reasons. I don't think they're comparable; it's like apples and oranges. For me, Prince is a different flavor altogether. MJ was a great pop artist, no question. But none of his songs have ever touched me the way Prince's do.

Plus, I never found MJ "sexy." He seemed asexual to me, where part of Prince's appeal to me is the overwhelming sexuality he exudes.

MJ is more popular, but not to me.
I don't care, pretty baby... just take me with u.
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Reply #9 posted 06/26/09 2:47pm

mushmackalenta

I would say from the music world only Madonna's death would come close to receiving the kind of coverage that MJ's has.
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Reply #10 posted 06/26/09 2:58pm

DecaturStone

I don't think you can compare Prince and MJ. Prince CLEARLY was not pressed on fame as much as MJ. MJ made SURE he made hits back to back. Where Prince is more a risk taker. I mean really 'If I Was Your Girlfriend' as a single? It is the dopest song but not a hit song by any means in reality. So I don't think Prince would get half of the coverage MJ is getting. Prince is my favorite by far. Like the other posters have said apples and oranges
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Reply #11 posted 06/26/09 3:04pm

Imago

Prince sold over 100 million records as of 2006? So, although she wasn't being literal in her "100 times more popular", such a statement is still rather absurd.

I personally am largely unaffected by MJ's death, and I find it hard to relate to people who are actually emotionally distraught over it. Not because he's MJ and I have a prejudice towards him, but because these are stars and entertainers well removed from our own lives. It's simply odd to me. If Prince were to pass away I'd feel only marginally more affected because I am actually a fan.

That being said, I'm going to try to look at their popularity as a regular joe and not a Prince fan.


MJ is undoubtedly more popular the Prince worldwide, and in the US he's more popular though the gap in popularity narrows marginally. Michael's death yesterday ensures that this will be the year of Michael Jackson, and if his record sales have not shot through the roof yet, they will very shortly. His record sales are going to dwarf lotusflow3r this year.

With MJ, how could you not get a hit? I mean, millions poured into his P&R campaigns, all his songs are safe and catchy, his videos are flashy, and his ridiculous self-named title "King of Pop" all work perfectly to generate buzz. The fact that he could at one time dance his ass off, and actually sought to entertain the audience only seals the deal.
MJ makes sure in every way possible that his album releases are 'events'.

Madonna had a lull in her career prior to the release of "Ray of Light", and as she was gearing up for it's release, she launched a media blitz which helped ensure it was her biggest selling album in years.

To me, even if Prince did that sort of thing, he'd never reach the levels on MJ stardom in the short term. His muisc, even bleed of its original daringness, is still more challenging than anything MJ has ever done. It demands more from its audience. Michael can put out boring ass songs like "Black or White" or the dreadful "I am here for you" and they become hits cause they're designed to be. Prince could release "Colonized Mind" which is deservingly a hit, but it wouldn't be.


Prince is amazing. He's done everything possible to sabotage his career, and at times behaved as if he didn't want to sell any albums at all. And despite all of this, he's one of the biggest selling musicians in history. Unlike MJ and other peers, Prince's success relies soley on his song writing and musical skills.

So to me it isn't about how many records he's sold, or taking on some ridiculous "King of Pop" title, but about how his music is going to be judged.

I mean, MC Hammer may have outsold Tribe Called Quest, and had his own cartoon and action figure at one time, but.... lol
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Reply #12 posted 06/26/09 3:14pm

xlr8r

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Imago said:

Prince sold over 100 million records as of 2006? So, although she wasn't being literal in her "100 times more popular", such a statement is still rather absurd.

I personally am largely unaffected by MJ's death, and I find it hard to relate to people who are actually emotionally distraught over it. Not because he's MJ and I have a prejudice towards him, but because these are stars and entertainers well removed from our own lives. It's simply odd to me. If Prince were to pass away I'd feel only marginally more affected because I am actually a fan.

lol:


Many of the distraught or even slightly affected people grew up with MJ and the brothers as part of their leisure entertainment. It wasn't like today with so much available technology that you can see and hear and interact with so many artists. There were only few media outlets which means that the artsist of yesteryear meant so much more to see. And MJ was during the time of great growth and progress in musical scope. Many things he did were of 'event' status. So growing up with that is akin to feeling a distant connection if you will. Plus Prince was a cultures own Elvis. And his passing is very utimely and way too soon.
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Reply #13 posted 06/26/09 3:16pm

tonyat

nm
[Edited 6/26/09 15:18pm]
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Reply #14 posted 06/26/09 3:17pm

DesireeNevermi
nd

tonyat said:

Even in death someone finds away to compare the two....amazing.
No offense OP but come on!!!!



you got a good point there. confused
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Reply #15 posted 06/26/09 3:17pm

Imago

xlr8r said:

Imago said:

Prince sold over 100 million records as of 2006? So, although she wasn't being literal in her "100 times more popular", such a statement is still rather absurd.

I personally am largely unaffected by MJ's death, and I find it hard to relate to people who are actually emotionally distraught over it. Not because he's MJ and I have a prejudice towards him, but because these are stars and entertainers well removed from our own lives. It's simply odd to me. If Prince were to pass away I'd feel only marginally more affected because I am actually a fan.

lol:


Many of the distraught or even slightly affected people grew up with MJ and the brothers as part of their leisure entertainment. It wasn't like today with so much available technology that you can see and hear and interact with so many artists. There were only few media outlets which means that the artsist of yesteryear meant so much more to see. And MJ was during the time of great growth and progress in musical scope. Many things he did were of 'event' status. So growing up with that is akin to feeling a distant connection if you will. Plus Prince was a cultures own Elvis. And his passing is very utimely and way too soon.

I may be just jaded or strange about this.
I was a huge Nirvana fan during prior to their release of Nevermind.
And still remained a large fan up until Kurt Cobain died.

But wasn't largely affected by his death.
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Reply #16 posted 06/26/09 3:19pm

DesireeNevermi
nd

I wouldn't wish MJ's fame on anybody. Your life is not your own with that level of adoration, obsession, scrutiny, criticism, and responsibility to those who have invested in your career. disbelief
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Reply #17 posted 06/26/09 3:19pm

Philly76

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mushmackalenta said:

I would say from the music world only Madonna's death would come close to receiving the kind of coverage that MJ's has.


I don´t think so. Nobody will get a coverage like what we have seen 2day.
I agree with most in here that M.J was the most famous one.
And his death really hit me hard as i have much respect for his work
and the music he composed.

But nevertheless, i am still convinced that Prince is the most
talented musician of the 20th century and the greatest live performer
that has ever seen the light of the day. And i think it´s for good
that Prince won´t get a coverage like Michael Jackson got.
Besides that, the coverage of Michael here in Germany wasn´t all that positive...

I hope Michael Jackson will rest in peace.
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Reply #18 posted 06/26/09 4:39pm

optimus

Once was this ball with a line straight down the middle
One side was black (Prince) and the other one white (MJ)
And they both understood so little
That they spent their whole lives tryin' 2 tell each other what time it was
And all along it did not matter what either said
Because, because

U only know what u know
U only see what your heart will show
U only love when your soul remembers
We all come from the same December
And in the end that's where we'll go
So let's go

There once was a golden idol (Grammy) that went 2 the winners
Needless 2 say, it didn't make 'em feel any less a sinner
Cuz the very next mornin' the whole damn world was the same
Yes it was
The idol's still shinin' but the voice inside it said,
"There ain't no winners in this game"


Theres my answer! lol wink
[Edited 6/26/09 16:45pm]
Everybody's looking 4 the ladder
Everybody wants salvation of the soul
The steps U take are no easy road
But the reward is great
4 those who want 2 go
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Reply #19 posted 06/26/09 4:43pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

Revolution said:

No doubt MJ was more popular...but, let's break down why that was so...

MJ played the numbers game...he wanted the top selling everything, and his record co paid for the top producers, paid top dollar for the best videos and in return wanted MJ to be bubblegum...but, his personal life wouldn't go for it.
Maybe the question should be, who was more respected, especially for the last 15 years? Then the answer is clearly Prince, who is still getting props from every and all angles.

MJ sold out for the numbers game...Prince has always done things his way.



That still doesn't answer the question

And if we deal with respect, I don't think Prince has it like that in the last 5 years either with his well known sueing of fans and sites and control of his image that does not translate respect.

Michael was an entertainer so he put top dollar into what he gave to the fans. I'm watching top quality videos from Michael from Thriller on up

I can't say the same for Prince
There were times Prince just thought he was/is it and the fans will like it
I Prince never did good videos outside of When Doves Cry, Raspberry Beret (all the Parade videos) stuff from Batman was ok, Diamonds and Pearl and good quality videos but even that whole project was to put a good pop album out to make money from the loss of the expensive Lovesexy tour to the cheap Graffiti Bridge movie

Also Michael doesn't have a list of people he refused to pay or make sure they got paid, I forget who it is but there is someone from the Purple Rain movie/tour who just got paid recently.
Michael has never had that problem and he has had:Slash,Naomi,Tyra Banks,Iman, Eddie Murphy, Paul McCartney etc etc either on an album concert or video

I didn't want to got there but your post took it there especially about respect

Who decideds to do an album but not want to pay people to work on it? respect?
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Reply #20 posted 06/26/09 4:48pm

XxAxX

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i think the reason MJ's passing is being made so much of is because the media has an unhealthy control over our common reality and perception. the cart is driving the horse, ladies and gents.

starting with princess di the tabloid scum began creating their own dramas and marketing them to us. check out TMZ. it's like they're on safari, hunting celebs down and spotlighting their every move.

michael was easy. he made a spectacle of himself in many ways. buying the elephant man's skeleton, bubbles, the oxygen tank, etc. for whatever reasons he had his quirks, said quirks were easily magnified by the press.

prince, on the other hand, does a good job of keeping the tabloids folks out of his biz. i don't think it is true that prince is not as popular an artist as michael jackson, i think it's more that he has never allowed the press to turn him into a huge, larger than life, so-shiny-we-see-ourselves-in-him kind of figure like michael.

i'm not an expert, just my 2c
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Reply #21 posted 06/26/09 4:53pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

DecaturStone said:

I don't think you can compare Prince and MJ. Prince CLEARLY was not pressed on fame as much as MJ. MJ made SURE he made hits back to back. Where Prince is more a risk taker. I mean really 'If I Was Your Girlfriend' as a single? It is the dopest song but not a hit song by any means in reality. So I don't think Prince would get half of the coverage MJ is getting. Prince is my favorite by far. Like the other posters have said apples and oranges



ahhhh I don't know I think Prince was pressed on fame in very different points of life.

I don't think Michael is pressed on fame, he was groomed to be an entertainer
Michael was doing this since the late late 60's into the 70's into the 80's into the 90' ....

Prince even though learning his craft as far as instruments and voice didn't come out until 1978

Both are entertainers, but to different degrees, MJ fans are not going to lack for fanfare, Prince fans in my opinion do. But that goes to the individual and there are personal reasons Prince is withdrawing at times, controlling(media)

Every songs Michael made was not a hit at all
Off the Wall and Thriller probably produced the largest number of hits.

I think Prince could have been more patient, believed in the project and worked the album, SOTT was not worked like it should have, US fans were sold short by giving us a concert film(not because he wanted it documented but because he didn't want to tour anymore and move onto the next project, that drove fans crazy again but was pulled from the shelves(Black album)
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Reply #22 posted 06/26/09 4:59pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

XxAxX said:

i think the reason MJ's passing is being made so much of is because the media has an unhealthy control over our common reality and perception. the cart is driving the horse, ladies and gents.

starting with princess di the tabloid scum began creating their own dramas and marketing them to us. check out TMZ. it's like they're on safari, hunting celebs down and spotlighting their every move.

michael was easy. he made a spectacle of himself in many ways. buying the elephant man's skeleton, bubbles, the oxygen tank, etc. for whatever reasons he had his quirks, said quirks were easily magnified by the press.

prince, on the other hand, does a good job of keeping the tabloids folks out of his biz. i don't think it is true that prince is not as popular an artist as michael jackson, i think it's more that he has never allowed the press to turn him into a huge, larger than life, so-shiny-we-see-ourselves-in-him kind of figure like michael.

i'm not an expert, just my 2c


I definately agree about your first line

I think by the time Michael was in his (Just Leave Me Alone) phase
he was already a star for about 20yrs Prince was probably just getting started by then. The pressure and life he had to live I think started to really get to him

They tried to get at Prince via Big Chicks interview

Prince did enough things to put himself out there, even though I may understand it, I think it worked (example the Slave faze)
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Reply #23 posted 06/26/09 5:32pm

Brofie

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Here is the all inclusive difference - and the one that matters most. Micheal Jackson was an entertainer. Prince is an artist. THey approached their careers with these definitions as the basis. Prince is the consumate artist and musician. He creates everything himself. What made Prince great came from Prince. Jackson relied on his visual presense (ground breaking music videos, TV appearances like Motown 25, his tours) more than he did on substance of music. Lets face it - Prince's material is superior overall and he writes, performs, and produces all of it.

But in this world that doesnt get you respected anymore. Sensationlism does. Grabbing your crotch and screaming on camera will get you famous faster than a kick ass guitar solo for the ages. Standing on top of a car and entertaining fans inte street outside a courthouse beats being brave and smart enough to take on the record industry and win when you ask the average low brow American music fan.
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Reply #24 posted 06/26/09 5:51pm

dirtyman2005

Brofie said:

Here is the all inclusive difference - and the one that matters most. Micheal Jackson was an entertainer. Prince is an artist. THey approached their careers with these definitions as the basis. Prince is the consumate artist and musician. He creates everything himself. What made Prince great came from Prince. Jackson relied on his visual presense (ground breaking music videos, TV appearances like Motown 25, his tours) more than he did on substance of music. Lets face it - Prince's material is superior overall and he writes, performs, and produces all of it.

But in this world that doesnt get you respected anymore. Sensationlism does. Grabbing your crotch and screaming on camera will get you famous faster than a kick ass guitar solo for the ages. Standing on top of a car and entertaining fans inte street outside a courthouse beats being brave and smart enough to take on the record industry and win when you ask the average low brow American music fan.


oh please,
we all know Prince is the fucking artist of all artists,
but don't try give us that smart ass bollocks again about Prince being an artist, and MJ being just an entertainer. MJ was just as much an artist as Prince or any other past great.

Having the vision to create a fucking 15 minute music video and financing it yourself, thats a fucking artist if there was one.

And also, having a fucking guitar in your hand doesn't automatically make you a "artist".
There are plenty of piles of shit around which have been over the years and today, who play guitars, but are full of shit and bring mediocrity to the fore, and give guitars an insult which cannot be recovered from. Playing a guitar or a keyboard doesn't automatically make you some sort of "artistic" master on a higher level to others, thats all fucking bollocks.
MJ was just as much an artist as anyone.

Also, there will never be anyone like Prince, probably the closest thing to a Jimi Hendrix we have had since Jimi's death.

MJ was a child performer, and basically has worked all his life, suffering as a consequence of the pressure.

He was an artist, and he gave people around the world enjoyment and positivity, thats what an artist does.

So please, don't give us the nun's cunt bullshit again.
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Reply #25 posted 06/26/09 6:06pm

Tame

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I've just always seperated these two men that were the same age doing what they do. In my personal opinion, Michael was a "Motown," Baby, that grew up within a disco oriented lifestyle with his music having little rock influence sound to it, where Prince as a guitar player is versatile as a musician and a singer.

I respect them both, and adore Prince as a Man. cool
"The Lion Sleeps Tonight...
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Reply #26 posted 06/26/09 6:13pm

jackielove

Prince's music was way ahead of anything out at the time. His lyrics required you to THINK at times. He was not always easy to process (not that it was a bad thing). So his sophistication, instrumentation, etc. appealed to a different audience. Plus, let's remember that Michael appealed to children and adults (I believe someone may have said this...sorry if I'm repeating) and Prince was considered foul, raunchy, and too sexual...for some therefore excluding huge audience (unlike me...who dug Prince at age 8 and I've been hooked since).

I am not sure who said it on this forum...but I must agree it's like comparing apples and oranges.

That's my take on it.
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Reply #27 posted 06/26/09 6:17pm

jackielove

Imago said:

Prince sold over 100 million records as of 2006? So, although she wasn't being literal in her "100 times more popular", such a statement is still rather absurd.

I personally am largely unaffected by MJ's death, and I find it hard to relate to people who are actually emotionally distraught over it. Not because he's MJ and I have a prejudice towards him, but because these are stars and entertainers well removed from our own lives. It's simply odd to me. If Prince were to pass away I'd feel only marginally more affected because I am actually a fan.

That being said, I'm going to try to look at their popularity as a regular joe and not a Prince fan.

Valid points!Good Post!

MJ is undoubtedly more popular the Prince worldwide, and in the US he's more popular though the gap in popularity narrows marginally. Michael's death yesterday ensures that this will be the year of Michael Jackson, and if his record sales have not shot through the roof yet, they will very shortly. His record sales are going to dwarf lotusflow3r this year.

With MJ, how could you not get a hit? I mean, millions poured into his P&R campaigns, all his songs are safe and catchy, his videos are flashy, and his ridiculous self-named title "King of Pop" all work perfectly to generate buzz. The fact that he could at one time dance his ass off, and actually sought to entertain the audience only seals the deal.
MJ makes sure in every way possible that his album releases are 'events'.

Madonna had a lull in her career prior to the release of "Ray of Light", and as she was gearing up for it's release, she launched a media blitz which helped ensure it was her biggest selling album in years.

To me, even if Prince did that sort of thing, he'd never reach the levels on MJ stardom in the short term. His muisc, even bleed of its original daringness, is still more challenging than anything MJ has ever done. It demands more from its audience. Michael can put out boring ass songs like "Black or White" or the dreadful "I am here for you" and they become hits cause they're designed to be. Prince could release "Colonized Mind" which is deservingly a hit, but it wouldn't be.


Prince is amazing. He's done everything possible to sabotage his career, and at times behaved as if he didn't want to sell any albums at all. And despite all of this, he's one of the biggest selling musicians in history. Unlike MJ and other peers, Prince's success relies soley on his song writing and musical skills.

So to me it isn't about how many records he's sold, or taking on some ridiculous "King of Pop" title, but about how his music is going to be judged.

I mean, MC Hammer may have outsold Tribe Called Quest, and had his own cartoon and action figure at one time, but.... lol
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Reply #28 posted 06/26/09 6:30pm

2elijah

MJ and Prince, two different artists who made major contributions to the world of music, with respect to their "own" unique styles, and were both able to cross over many racial lines during a time period, that not too many artists from America were able to do.

I respect both artists' contributions to music, and I see no point in proving which one of them was more popular or better than the other, but rather appreciate their creativity and gift of music.
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Reply #29 posted 06/26/09 6:30pm

kimrachell

some good points are brought up here by many peoples views! most people yesterday that i talked to thought MJ was a joke and a freak! confused and were laughing, i haven't seen anyone crying or anything where i live. and i get the feeling that people would react the same with prince, most people that i meet and i mention prince to laugh and call him a freak....i don't agree with them, but to alot of people both MJ and prince's days of mass fame are over. and i think it happens to alot of musicians/artists as they age. i think MJ had more fame than prince simply because he was famous longer and was a famous singer since childhood.

i wasn't a huge MJ fan or anything, i didn't cry or have a meltdown when i heard he had passed away, but i find it very sad, and i feel for his kids and family the most. growing up in the 80's i have fond memories of his music and i recall trying to do the moonwalk at age 7 in my parents kitchen wearing socks.....i remember that MJ's "bad" album was the first actual casette tape i bought with my own money.....so, sure it's sad....

confused
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