Well I have to agree with you on that one, I could understand the point he was originally making but no reason to use just Jewish names after the fact, unless he is accusing Jewish people of being slave owners as well?

I am not comparing it to blacks who have been given the names of their slave holders, but many Jewish US citizens did change their names to English names after they had to leave Europe. For example your name was "Grün" and they changed it to "Green".

The comparisons of black family names and jewish family names, as I've said, was definitely purposeful. Jews actually take great pride in their family names...would be a huge insult for someone jewish to change their name from Goldstein to, say, just Gold. It would be like denying their heritage. Prince was saying that blacks, in contrast, had their heritage stripped from them, don't even know what their real family names are. So yeah, the comparisons were on purpose. Nothing anti-semetic there in doing that.

As for mentioning the holocaust, like I said up above I'm in that grey area that says he used the word "aside" for a reason (and you did hint at it being laziness and merely needing a word that rhymed with "died" lol)...but I also don't quite buy it was simply to say "putting the holocaust aside for a moment"...you don't bring it up to put it aside.

If I were to give an educated guess, I would say that within Prince's own internal dialogue and conversations at the time, a lot of different aspects on life, death, race, God, etc, were brought up, including issues of how jews and blacks are viewed by and large in this country (Prince's views are pretty much U.S.-specific). All of those different topics that he delved into deeply at the time ended up making their way in one form or another into the lyrics of The Rainbow Children...so we get lyrics about the "new translation" of the bible, theocratic orders, the falacy of relying on race to differentiate ourselves, how the injustices of blacks and jews are viewed by the population, the matrix-like hold that the news media has on the public...etc, etc, yadda yadda lol...and all of it dished out in either bits and pieces, or in lengthy wholes, during the album.

So in that scenario, something like the holocaust can come up out of nowhere...at least, out of nowhere to us. Within Prince's thinking, though, it's all interconnected, so it "fits" just fine. Of course that's the result of an artist being overly self-indulgent in creating of a piece of his/her work. I've seen movies that were called "self-indulgent" that featured a BUNCH of "insider" tidbits that only the director would find any relevance in...things that really had zero to do with the movie's storyline or plot. They weren't included to help make the audience understand anything better or to give them a better experience...they were included solely for the director's own personal issues. You get a director who does that TOO much in a movie, and you feel like you're watching someone talk to themselves and laugh at their own private jokes...TRC veers into that area at times.

My assumption was always this:

Prince, at the time anyway, was leaning more towards a viewpoint that Blacks had been thru the same types of atrocities as Jews, but not given the same level of outrage, condemnation and recourse, both in the States and worldwide, as Jews were afforded. The perception being one of African Americans being told to "get over it" concerning things like slavery, etc...and he probably fell in line with others who would, say, compare how the holocaust was viewed in the U.S. to how slavery was viewed, how Jews were "given their own country" as where black slaves were given land (40 acres and a mule), only to have most of it stolen back by the KKK or even the government. Within that discourse would come a natural comparison between the plight Jews have faced and the plight Blacks have faced.

So when you get to a song like "Family Name", Prince brings up the whole "get over it" argument he probably felt is used too much towards blacks ("You might say, 'What U mad about?'..")...then goes on to compare the names blacks have been anchored with ("Lynch", for instance...not a good name for a race who was regularly lynched publicly to cheering crowds) to the names Jews have ("Rosenbloom", "Pearlman"...Rose In Bloom...Pearl...get it? lol)...I never even slightly got the impression that Prince was blaming Jews for stripping away blacks' family "names" and african heritage.

So why compare black family names to the family names of jews? I'm guessing to illustrate how blacks in this country have had it just as bad, if not worse, than Jews have had it...but that he believed people in the U.S. aren't nearly as willing to acknowledge it to the same level, probably because slavery is "our" national shame, as where the holocaust is another country's shame (as well as being more recent). He also wanted to point out areas in which he probably felt the majority of U.S. citizens didn't really appreciate the full level of harm centuries of slavery and racism placed on the black race...I actually thought singing about how being saddled with your slave master's last name was an ultimate insult was pretty damn clever, myself.

Prince was becoming a bit militant at the time, which turned off some of his fans...it's ok in everyone's eyes if he's being militant towards sexual attitudes, of course lol ...when the target is politics or religion, it's a bit dicier.


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[Edited 6/25/09 11:52am]

That's the thing, though...as you hinted at, there's a HUGELY significant difference between willingly changing your "family name" and yet still knowing what it originally was...and having it stripped from you and losing that heritage forever. It's pretty much apples and oranges.

Well it is not really willingly as they would not have needed to if they could have stayed back home in Europe. But like I said, I am not comparing it to blacks who have been given the names of their slave holders.

I can understand that, but the way he adresses it is very bad taste and anti-semitic IMO.

The black/Jewish name comparison might work (and not be anti-semitic) if it weren't for the fact that a lot of Jews in this country don't have their family names anymore. Many had their names changed for them at Ellis Island (through improper recording or for other reasons). Others changed their own names upon coming to the United States, hoping not to experience the kind of discrimination and persecution they had in Europe. (I used to work with a woman whose ancestors experienced this.)

Again, it is not an apt comparison. But, hey - dude believes in chemtrails. He just makes it easier and easier to blow off the other crap.

Well, I could ask, then, "why bring it up if you weren't comparing the two things?" lol ...which, of course, is what people are saying about Prince mentioning the holocaust in "Muse 2 The Pharaoh"..

Bad taste?...Yeah, could be tacky lol. Anti-semetic? Nah, not seeing it.

I brought it up because you said that Jews are so proud of their names and would never want to change them . So I pointed out many had to change it too.

Like I said above, though, you really can't compare the two...to use a train of logic you used earlier, it really diminishes what slaves went through (concerning their names, heritage and identity) to say that it's really no different than anyone else who's ever changed their last name due to clerical errors or willingly of their own accord. They're nowhere near the same. It would be like someone saying their child was abducted, and then comparing it to people who willingly gave their children up for adoption...

How is "Man under god, woman under man" not sexist?

I didn't diminish anything. I said it wasn't an apt comparison.

It's exactly in the same manner neo-nazi politicians in Europe act. Making fun of Jewish names is quite common among them.

But you brought it up before I said that (I think )...

I'll ask you the same question, then lol...if it's NOT an apt comparison, why bring it up?

Let's hope you're not saying Prince is much like a neo-nazi here lol...

And he doesn't make fun of Rosenbloom or Pearlman...however, like I said earlier, turning Goldstein into Goldstruck might cross the line (and is completely unnecessary for the point he had been making with that song).

it's in the book of revelations....