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Printableeaglebear4839 said: As with any song on Purple Rain, Adore is a good ballad, but for me, it's just not his best. I think it's partly because I don't necessarily like it when Prince puts a sensual ballad at the end of an album (like with International Lover at the end of 1999). I like Better With Time, Satisfied and The Dance more than I do Adore.
 
 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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1725topp said: Marrk said: Wow, a mountain out of a mole-hill.
I don't know how you guys can read so much, into a few relatively harmless comments. i certainly didn't imply any culture is greater than another, that's not in my book. when all is said and done, i'm not talking about an entire culture, just a small part of it (the fucking radio for crying out loud!). But the fact i don't know intricately about this small part of your culture makes me borderline racist/genocidal? please! look at yourselves. 
crazy.  First, your last two posts remind me of when I hear a white person say, "Hey, don't be offended by my words...some of my best friends are black..." as if purchasing a few black records and magazines somehow balances prejudice if not racist language. Now, I stated in my last post that you may not have meant or intended to be prejudice or racist, but that is what you accomplished. Secondly, you call someone a liar--someone you don't know, which means you have no proof of their particular experience, but you feel, for some reason, that you have the "right" to call him a liar, and then have the nerve to wonder why he or someone else who shares that particular experience is offended. Then, you top it off by saying that they are being racist for being offended that someone who does not know them or their experience feels that he has the "right" to make assumptions about their experience. Taking into consideration all that you have said and done, if you were not being racist or offensive, what would you call it? Or at least tell me how you feel that you have the "right" to make declarations about people's lives, cultures, or existences without having properly studied them other than feeling that their culture or experience is so marginal that it could not possible be unlike yours. It is cool to say, "Well, in my hometown Prince isn't played on the radio." But, you went a step further and asserted that BigDaddyHQ must be lying because he is asserting that he lives a different existence than you. Your words are no different than when White Americans say, "Well, we don't have problems with racial profiling or police brutality in our neighborhood, so black people must be lying." Whether it is a major or minor point/issue, when you make false or flawed assumptions about someone else's culture or claim that someone is lying about their cultural experience because it is foreign to you, you are putting yourself in a position of superiority even if it is not your intent to do so. You said that your comments are harmless. How is it harmless to call someone a liar when you don't know them or their experience? And how is it not elitist or prejudice or racist to assume that just because something doesn't exist in your world of experiences that it must not exist in somebody else's world of experiences? You said that you are a historian. Is that the same type of historian who denies that Africans had a civilization before contact with whites? Is that the same type of historian who denies that Elvis and Pat Boone stole from black culture? Just as these two lies were perpetuated due to people not doing their homework, so is your lie about Prince's music continuing to be on black radio, especially songs like "Do Me, Baby" and "Adore." So, you can put all the icon faces you want on your posts and claim that we are overreacting, but you were the one who called someone a liar with no basis or merit to substantiate your declaration, and when you do that we are left to wonder or assume why you would feel so comfortable in denying if not marginalizing someone else’s cultural experience. You've got my response via orgnote, but by this response alone, you've blown everything out of all proportion from what was previously discussed And revealed alot about your militant self. Bringing things into the discussion that just weren't there in the first place. At least from me! I'm a Prince fan first and foremost, but you just had to pull the old Pat Boone/Elvis card. Ridiculous, considering you know nothing about me, my family or my ancestory. BTW, Got a weblink for the stations who play these P tunes regularly? | |
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Marrk said: BTW, Got a weblink for the stations who play these P tunes regularly? Yep... a station I mentioned earlier in this thread. WVAZ Chicago (aka v103 urban adult contemporary) home of Chicago's 'Quiet Storm'... but these are from thier normal playlist. (being adult) 42.Prince - Do Me Baby 58.Prince - How Come You Don't Call Me Anymore 128.Prince - Adore 170.Prince - I Wanna Be Your Lover I didn't feel like checking any further... but this was the first station which came too mind. [Edited 6/12/09 14:08pm] | |
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1725topp said: we are left to wonder or assume why you would feel so comfortable in denying if not marginalizing someone else’s cultural experience.
And that is exactly what you did in your post. It is simple. In Europe we don't have black charts or black radio shows, we never had. The division is made by the type of music not the color of someone's skin. The big difference between the USA and Europe is their history. And although I try I will probably never understand why American society is still so divided but that doesn't make me a racist. On the other hand there are a lot of Americans on forums (also on prince.org) that easily use the words nazi and Gestapo which I think are never to be used except when you are talking about the real nazi's and Gestapo from 1940-1945. So before you are calling someone racist keep in mind where they come from. And don't accuse people of stuff you are guilty of yourself. European and American culture are different. ----- BTW I love 'Adore'. It is Prince at its best. [Edited 6/12/09 15:41pm] Formerly known as Parade @ HQ and formerly proud owner of www.paradetour.com | |
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dothejump said: 1725topp said: we are left to wonder or assume why you would feel so comfortable in denying if not marginalizing someone else’s cultural experience.
And that is exactly what you did in your post. It is simple. In Europe we don't have black charts or black radio shows, we never had. The division is made by the type of music not the color of someone's skin. The big difference between the USA and Europe is their history. And although I try I will probably never understand why American society is still so divided but that doesn't make me a racist. On the other hand there are a lot of Americans on forums (also on prince.org) that easily use the words nazi and Gestapo which I think are never to be used except when you are talking about the real nazi's and Gestapo from 1940-1945. So before you are calling someone racist keep in mind where they come from. And don't accuse people of stuff you are guilty of yourself. European and American culture are different. ----- BTW I love 'Adore'. It is Prince at its best. [Edited 6/12/09 15:41pm] What the hell are you talking about??? Every one of my responses has been to Marrk for something that Marrk said. When the hell did I make negative comments about Marrk’s culture or European culture??? Second, if you are going to quote me or say that I said something, get it right. Show one time when I marginalized European culture. In fact, the point that I made to Marrk was that just because his culture doesn't like something, he should not assume that other cultures don't like something. Now, explain to me how that is marginalizing European culture??? I never said that there is something wrong with Europeans or white people for not liking “Adore.” Also, I never said that I didn’t believe that Marrk was telling the truth or lying about his own radio experience. See, unlike Marrk, I don’t make assumptions about people or their culture that I don’t know. Also, what is your point about "in Europe there are no black charts or black radio???" You are proving my point because my point was/is just because you don't have something do not assume that someone else does not have something. So please tell me how I am being racist for pointing that out??? Are you purposely trying to cloud the issue??? What you said makes absolutely no sense because I never said anything to disparage or marginalize Europe or European culture. WTF??? Seems like you are just reaching for straws!!! And finally, what is your point about you will never understand why America is still so divided??? What does that have to do with Marrk calling somebody a liar with no basis??? Marrk was the one who said that BigDaddyHQ was lying about "Adore" still being played on Black Radio. Marrk was the one who assumed that just because something does not happen in his hometown of mostly white people then it must not happen anywhere? For me to be guilty of being racist, I must be guilty of disparaging or marginalizing Europe or European culture. When did I do that? Calling Marrk out for falsely accusing someone of being a liar does not make me a racist. (Unless it is racist for a black person to contradict or point out the flaw of a white person?) Additionally, wondering why Marrk falsely accused someone of being a liar does not make me a racist. Marrk and anybody else should be more learned about other peoples' culture before they make statements about it. On the other hand, not one time did I make assumptions or sweeping generalities about Europe or European culture. I don't know what the hell you are talking about. So, just like I gave specific facts as to my accusations about Marrk, please provide specific accusations as to when I marginalized or disparaged Europe or European culture. And if you can't do that, you are, as James Brown says, talking loud and saying nothing. Finally, allow me to reiterate my first post. Marrk may not have intended to be racist, but he was when he assumed that BigDaddyHQ was lying based on his limited knowledge of black culture because he was assuming that our culture must be like his for whatever reason. That is a racist assumption because Marrk, in his statement (and I can only comment on his statement), is assuming that African American culture would not have either the ability or the desire to develop its own identity and decision making process that may create different choices than his culture. I did not say it; Marrk did; So, you need to holler at ya’ boy about his choice of words before responding to my words without reading and having a full understanding of what I said because I never attacked Europe or European culture, just Marrk's misinformed statements. Please, don’t try the reverse racism card on me; I don’t wither that easily because my life is about speaking truth to power. | |
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Marrk said: You've got my response via orgnote, but by this response alone, you've blown everything out of all proportion from what was previously discussed And revealed alot about your militant self. Bringing things into the discussion that just weren't there in the first place. At least from me! I'm a Prince fan first and foremost, but you just had to pull the old Pat Boone/Elvis card. Ridiculous, considering you know nothing about me, my family or my ancestory. BTW, Got a weblink for the stations who play these P tunes regularly? Now that BigDaddyHQ has proven to you that you were wrong about your baseless assumptions by providing weblinks to radio stations that play P tunes regularly, are you going to be able to admit that you were wrong and that you were making assumptions about other people's culture with limited information??? As far as bringing things into a conversation that just weren't there, again, that is your fault for choosing your words poorly and making assumptions about someone else's culture. Since you claim to be a historian and a lover of Black music, then I would expect more from you. Don't be upset at me because you chose words and made assumptions that marginalized someone else's culture. That’s your fault, not mine. Also, owning four million black records will not change what you said. Finally, you judged first, calling someone a liar with no basis, and now you are not even able to admit that you called him a liar. Then, you want to twist it as if we are judging you. Like you said, it's all good. At least I am able to own the words that I speak. Maybe you should be more careful about the words that you choose. I'm editing this because I completely missed that you called me militant? Why is it militant for a black person to tell the truth? Why is it militant for a black person to point out a wrong by a white person? Historically speaking, and you being a historian would know this, the term "militant" was mostly used when whites tired of blacks standing for their rights or was used on or against blacks who did not care about the consequence of telling the truth or standing for their rights. Don't forget that Martin Luther King was called militant, especially during his early days of leading the bus boycotts, as often as Malcolm X. To throw around that term, when it is so loaded with historical misuse, brings me back to my original post of wondering why you were so willing to assume that BigDaddyHQ was lying. You may need to stop talking before the rest of your ideological bones begin to spill from your closet. [Edited 6/12/09 23:15pm] | |
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^Man, you read way too much in everything. I never called you a racist.
1725topp said: I'm editing this because I completely missed that you called me militant? Why is it militant for a black person to tell the truth? Why is it militant for a black person to point out a wrong by a white person? Tsssss. Most people, I am one of them, don't even know what race other orgers are. We are talking to human beings. So stop the stuff like 'why can't a black man ...' etc. 1725topp said: To throw around that term, when it is so loaded with historical misuse, brings me back to my original post of wondering why you were so willing to assume that BigDaddyHQ was lying. You may need to stop talking before the rest of your ideological bones begin to spill from your closet. And there you have it: cultural difference. The word 'militant' doesn't have such a history here. [Edited 6/13/09 0:33am] Formerly known as Parade @ HQ and formerly proud owner of www.paradetour.com | |
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dothejump said: 1725topp said: we are left to wonder or assume why you would feel so comfortable in denying if not marginalizing someone else’s cultural experience.
And that is exactly what you did in your post. It is simple. In Europe we don't have black charts or black radio shows, we never had. The division is made by the type of music not the color of someone's skin. The big difference between the USA and Europe is their history. And although I try I will probably never understand why American society is still so divided but that doesn't make me a racist. On the other hand there are a lot of Americans on forums (also on prince.org) that easily use the words nazi and Gestapo which I think are never to be used except when you are talking about the real nazi's and Gestapo from 1940-1945. So before you are calling someone racist keep in mind where they come from. And don't accuse people of stuff you are guilty of yourself. European and American culture are different. ----- BTW I love 'Adore'. It is Prince at its best. [Edited 6/12/09 15:41pm] Please go back and re-read the conversation... the whole thread in fact. You jumped into the tail end, and your comments reflect that. Comments were made which tied the love of the song 'Adore' to African American culture. Several posters took offense... and I made comments which elaborated on the subject... which in short, is that in the African American community... Prince is most known for his R&B music... especially his 'slow jams' like Adore, Do Me Baby etc. And in our community... those songs are still heard on a regular basis virtually everywhere. Some got it who didn't at first... others agreed and backed me up based on their experiences. Marrk said "Prince is not primarily an 'RnB' artist, and thank goodness for that." and called me a liar. Marrk, just as you did, went on to explain how in his country... Prince in general doesn't get the love I described. And he brought up the fact that there aren't any large black communities where he is. That is fine. BUT he didn't leave it there... he went on to call me a liar and make the R&B music comment. His words should have been chosen better, When a person speaks of their own culture.. and your remarks dismiss what they say as a lie because it differs from your own experiences which bares no resmblence to thiers... or you make a derogatory statement about such an important part of that culture (R&B music).... it infers a touch of arrogance, superiority or flat out ignorance. In this case, coming from someone who admittedly had no grasp of African American culture... his words could have easily been taken as racist. And did he clear it up... NO. He dug himself in deeper. To bring up that he has read Vibe magazine and used to get Word Up and Right On magazines in the 80's... come off just like the racist guy who says... "I'm not racist because I have a black friend.". Also if he had in fact been up to date with those types of magazines... he would be more aware of African American culture and the importance of music to it.. and these exchanges wouldn't have begun in the first place. Adding to that, he ignored that others have described the same experiences and him wanting me to 'prove' what I said... what we said... about our own culture is true...???? He hasn't left much room to think anything else but some level of racism. Maybe not the hanging from a tree type... but clearly a level of cultural ignorance and his own self arrogance. Since we don't listen to those songs here, they wouldn't either... so he must be lying. Instead of trying to understand.. he took the route of baseless assumptions a bit too far. p.s. I know you don't come from a native English speaking country... but Marrk does and he knows full well what the term 'militant' refers to... just as you do. Unless you're inferring he's an idiot. Which I don't believe he is. A tad misguided... culturally un-aware... and a tad presumptuous ... but not an idiot who doesn't know the meaning of the word and who he's referring it too. Also just because you come from Europe does not give you or him or anyone else a free pass when it comes to racial/cultural intolerance and flat out ignorance... because they do exist there as well. Maybe not due to the color of skin... but issues with religion and nationality does exist. As far as the song ADORE goes... a couple of the reasons I believe it ranks as one of the all time great ballads in the African American community and has maintained such longevity starts with it's arrangement. It touches on several genres true to the community: R&B, Jazz and Gospel. It's sultry.. it's dreamy... and it has a great groove. Some of the lyrics are what women wish thier man would say.. and a couple even gets kinda funny. It speaks of a long term commitment to love and places your lover on a pedestal. The song is all that and then some. It ain't for everybody... and I know some don't like it... because everyone is different. [Edited 6/13/09 2:08am] | |
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this thread has gone far too off topic,
it's about the song Adore, for christ's sake..  Prince 4Ever.  | |
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thedance said: this thread has gone far too off topic,
it's about the song Adore, for christ's sake.. And that's what is being discussed. It got a little deeper than the simple... "I love it"... "I hate it" comments... but its still all about the song Adore. | |
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BigDaddyHQ said: I know you don't come from a native English speaking country... but Marrk does and he knows full well what the term 'militant' refers to... just as you do. Unless you're inferring he's an idiot. Which I don't believe he is. A tad misguided... culturally un-aware... and a tad presumptuous ... but not an idiot who doesn't know the meaning of the word and who he's referring it too. I know militant is not a positive word and personally I wouldn't use it on a forum. But in The Netherlands it is in no way attached to black people or the civil rights movement. I don't know how it is in the UK where Marrrk comes from but I get the idea that it is there the same as in The Netherlands. BigDaddyHQ said: Also just because you come from Europe does not give you or him or anyone else a free pass when it comes to racial/cultural intolerance and flat out ignorance... because they do exist there as well. Maybe not due to the color of skin... but issues with religion and nationality does exist. Of course there is intolerance in Europe. Unfortunately it is even growing in the last couple of years. All I'm trying to say is that there is a difference between the USA and Europe. And sometimes that gives trouble like in this thread. What you in the USA (now I'm generalizing too  ) would call racist or intolerant we wouldn't and vice versa. We just look differently to things. And then calling each other intolerant doesn't help because if you call someone ignorant because he doesn't understand your culture you are ignorant as well because you don't understand theirs.
I'll stand by my point that it is just difference between cultures. BigDaddyHQ said: As far as the song ADORE goes... a couple of the reasons I believe it ranks as one of the all time great ballads in the African American community and has maintained such longevity starts with it's arrangement. It touches on several genres true to the community: R&B, Jazz and Gospel. It's sultry.. it's dreamy... and it has a great groove. Some of the lyrics are what women wish thier man would say.. and a couple even gets kinda funny. It speaks of a long term commitment to love and places your lover on a pedestal. The song is all that and then some. It ain't for everybody... and I know some don't like it... because everyone is different. Now with most of that I agree. It is a great song with many influences. The only thing that I wouldn't write is the part about the African American community. I never thought about it that way. For me it is just a great song and I don't link it to a community. That probably only tells that I was brought up in The Netherlands and not in the USA. We look differently at certain things but that doesn't make you or me ignorant or intolerant. Formerly known as Parade @ HQ and formerly proud owner of www.paradetour.com | |
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BigDaddyHQ said: And that's what is being discussed.
It got a little deeper than the simple... "I love it"... "I hate it" comments... but its still all about the song Adore. Really.. I didn't replied in former posts with a simpls "I Love it" or "I hate it" 
here is my response... thedance said: C'mmon....
people can hate songs like Musicology, Black Sweat, Guitar, Chocolate Box... I don't care that much about THAT... but to hate the classics, that's really tough. I wonder what's wrong with ur tastes/ ears?? Sign O' The Times is a Prince top 3 album, it's among his finest art.... I really don't get how (why?) people can hate anything from this fine album. It hurts, it hurts..... next thing people are gonna hate on may be When Doves Cry or Kiss ? it just doesn't make any sense....  thedance said: ^ yeah that "baffles" me as well, classics like ADORE should be admired endlessly, imo.
all this "defending" of Prince's classics is hard, I agree to that. ADORE is a 10/10 classic...
it's sad when people don't appreciate the true masterpieces
Prince 4Ever. | |
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BigDaddyHQ said: thedance said: this thread has gone far too off topic,
it's about the song Adore, for christ's sake.. And that's what is being discussed. It got a little deeper than the simple... "I love it"... "I hate it" comments... but its still all about the song Adore. It is getting scary but I agree with you  Formerly known as Parade @ HQ and formerly proud owner of www.paradetour.com | |
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dothejump said: I know militant is not a positive word and personally I wouldn't use it on a forum.
And that says it all. He used the term militant in its proper but 'negative' context. The U.K.shares more in common with the U.S. than it does the Netherlands on almost every level of society. So its safe to assume he knows full well what he said and what it meant. Remeber.. he reads Vibe, Right On and Word Up! dothejump said: I'll stand by my point that it is just difference between cultures. This is not one of those... cultural misunderstandings. If you don't have a large black community in your country.. great. If you never heard of radio stations which played all black music... fine. If the 'pubs' you go to don't play strictly music made by blacks... wonderful. But what you DO NOT do... is turn around and use those aspects about YOUR culture and insist they must be truths about another culture you have NEVER experienced and call people from that culture LIARS, because you haven't experienced what they have. From Bangkok to Brooklyn.. you call some one a liar it means the same thing. That is an ignorant thing to do no matter what and it takes a racist tone due to the fact that it was directed towards comments which dealt with a specific race/culture and how they related to the music. I have seen you in the past use these same excuses to defend other culturally offensive statements. What you are doing... and you clearly are because you keep referring to the Netherlands where you are from... is excusing what he has said based on your own beliefs... your own tolerances or intolerances... your own communication barrier you sometimes have with people of other cultures and applying those traits to his comments. . But what is strange is that you clearly have an understanding of what has been said... but you're suggesting that he doesn't. dothejump said: It is a great song with many influences. The only thing that I wouldn't write is the part about the African American community. I never thought about it that way. For me it is just a great song and I don't link it to a community. That probably only tells that I was brought up in The Netherlands and not in the USA. We look differently at certain things but that doesn't make you or me ignorant or intolerant. Exactly... you wouldn't because you were brought up in the Netherlands and not the U.S. So what would give you the right to call me a liar after I shared with you that where I come from, the song is a mainstay of my culture and its still heard regularly on radio, in clubs, and in our homes...???? Absolutely nothing. And if you did... you'ld start problems. And that is exactly what happened here. | |
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thedance said: BigDaddyHQ said: And that's what is being discussed.
It got a little deeper than the simple... "I love it"... "I hate it" comments... but its still all about the song Adore. Really.. I didn't replied in former posts with a simpls "I Love it" or "I hate it" I didn't say that YOU literally responded like that in this thread. It was just an example. | |
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1725topp said: dothejump said: And that is exactly what you did in your post. It is simple. In Europe we don't have black charts or black radio shows, we never had. The division is made by the type of music not the color of someone's skin. The big difference between the USA and Europe is their history. And although I try I will probably never understand why American society is still so divided but that doesn't make me a racist. On the other hand there are a lot of Americans on forums (also on prince.org) that easily use the words nazi and Gestapo which I think are never to be used except when you are talking about the real nazi's and Gestapo from 1940-1945. So before you are calling someone racist keep in mind where they come from. And don't accuse people of stuff you are guilty of yourself. European and American culture are different. ----- BTW I love 'Adore'. It is Prince at its best. [Edited 6/12/09 15:41pm] What the hell are you talking about??? Every one of my responses has been to Marrk for something that Marrk said. When the hell did I make negative comments about Marrk’s culture or European culture??? Second, if you are going to quote me or say that I said something, get it right. Show one time when I marginalized European culture. In fact, the point that I made to Marrk was that just because his culture doesn't like something, he should not assume that other cultures don't like something. Now, explain to me how that is marginalizing European culture??? I never said that there is something wrong with Europeans or white people for not liking “Adore.” Also, I never said that I didn’t believe that Marrk was telling the truth or lying about his own radio experience. See, unlike Marrk, I don’t make assumptions about people or their culture that I don’t know. Also, what is your point about "in Europe there are no black charts or black radio???" You are proving my point because my point was/is just because you don't have something do not assume that someone else does not have something. So please tell me how I am being racist for pointing that out??? Are you purposely trying to cloud the issue??? What you said makes absolutely no sense because I never said anything to disparage or marginalize Europe or European culture. WTF??? Seems like you are just reaching for straws!!! And finally, what is your point about you will never understand why America is still so divided??? What does that have to do with Marrk calling somebody a liar with no basis??? Marrk was the one who said that BigDaddyHQ was lying about "Adore" still being played on Black Radio. Marrk was the one who assumed that just because something does not happen in his hometown of mostly white people then it must not happen anywhere? For me to be guilty of being racist, I must be guilty of disparaging or marginalizing Europe or European culture. When did I do that? Calling Marrk out for falsely accusing someone of being a liar does not make me a racist. (Unless it is racist for a black person to contradict or point out the flaw of a white person?) Additionally, wondering why Marrk falsely accused someone of being a liar does not make me a racist. Marrk and anybody else should be more learned about other peoples' culture before they make statements about it. On the other hand, not one time did I make assumptions or sweeping generalities about Europe or European culture. I don't know what the hell you are talking about. So, just like I gave specific facts as to my accusations about Marrk, please provide specific accusations as to when I marginalized or disparaged Europe or European culture. And if you can't do that, you are, as James Brown says, talking loud and saying nothing. Finally, allow me to reiterate my first post. Marrk may not have intended to be racist, but he was when he assumed that BigDaddyHQ was lying based on his limited knowledge of black culture because he was assuming that our culture must be like his for whatever reason. That is a racist assumption because Marrk, in his statement (and I can only comment on his statement), is assuming that African American culture would not have either the ability or the desire to develop its own identity and decision making process that may create different choices than his culture. I did not say it; Marrk did; So, you need to holler at ya’ boy about his choice of words before responding to my words without reading and having a full understanding of what I said because I never attacked Europe or European culture, just Marrk's misinformed statements. Please, don’t try the reverse racism card on me; I don’t wither that easily because my life is about speaking truth to power. powerful post... | |
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thedance said: this thread has gone far too off topic,
it's about the song Adore, for christ's sake.. Whether or not this thread has gone off topic depends on how one views art. If one views art as an isolated thing, separate and apart from the socio-political matrix or culture that produced it, then this thread can be perceived as being off topic. However, if one views art as an innate or organic artifact of the socio-political matrix or culture that produced it, then there is no way that one can discuss art without discussing how the art relates to or makes commentary about its socio-political matrix or culture. I'm not saying that either philosophy is more valid than the other. I agree with W. E. B. DuBois when he states that "in the final analysis all art is propaganda." Yet, I don't disparage others for not feeling the same. With all of that said, this tread became a discussion about society and politics when Marrk called BigDaddyHQ a liar regarding his own culture. After re-reading the entire thread, it seems that I have said everything that I wanted to say, and that BigDaddyHQ has said everything that needed to be said for our side of the issue. Hopefully, this thread will cause others to think about how their comments will be viewed by others, but I doubt it. With a community this large, constructed by people from all over the world, misunderstandings will occur. But there is a difference between a misunderstanding and language used to marginalize and disparage others. Everyone on this cite likes/loves Prince's work, we all like/love it differently and for different reasons, and "Adore" is one of many perfect examples of how our own subjective and cultural sensibilities and tastes cause us to embrace some songs and reject others. Yet, we cannot be so focused on how we view the world that we minimize or invalidate the perceptions of others. And, sadly, that happens a lot on this cite as well as on Housequake, which was my primary place for Prince news. Whether it is the 80s folks versus the post 90s folks or the R&B folks versus the Rock folks while the "I like all of the forms of music that Prince makes" folks look down on both of them, it seems that most people just like what they like, and most on this cite are cool with that. But, I am still surprised after being a fan of Prince's music for 29 years that so many who call themselves fans of Prince music can be so culturally uninformed and spend so much time discussing what they hate rather than what they like. I like "Adore" because the lyrics are slick, passionate, and funny to me, the organ echoes and proves that soul music is the twin heir to gospel, and the subtly of the horns always puts me back into a Clarksdale, Mississippi juke joint at 3:00 a.m. where the smells of greasy foods mix with sweaty bodies of folk who use music to grind away the pains of a hellish life so this cafe' be their temporary heaven. That's my personal reason why I love "Adore." I never give thought to those who don't like "Adore" as I am sure that there is a Prince song that does not move me that would surprise or be difficult for them to understand why I don't like it. When I was in elementary, I wanted to find Uptown so that I could leave Mississippi and live where "our clothes our hair [didn't matter]; it's all about being there." When I was in high school I was naive enough to believe that all fans of Prince's music thought that we could create a place for "colorful people...with smile on their faces [that] speaks of profound inner peace." And even as late as college, I still believed that people could "live for love" rather than love money and do anything to get it? However, as a man of forty, I know that life is not that simple. One's peace and prosperity is another man's enslavement. Yet, even at this age, I am still surprised to find so much negativity at a Prince cite or forum. And, I will admit that my constant checking people about things that seem insensitive or racist may add to rather than eliminate the negativity. Yet, I do also know that there are many young fans of Prince's music on this cite, and I am unable to allow some speech and ideas go unchecked for fear that they will influence young people not to realize that one of the many messages and themes of Prince's work is liberation, whether it is liberation from arbitrary and oppressive social norms, liberation of the social and political underclass, or liberation from the pain and turmoil of sin. I've said it before so maybe I am just tying to convince myself that rather than reading and participating in the forums, I should return to just checking the cite for news as to when Prince will be on tv, on tour, or has a new record released because for art that has brought so much joy, fun, and motivation into my life the forums that I read seem to be about the exact opposite. | |
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BigDaddyHQ said: This is not one of those... cultural misunderstandings. If you don't have a large black community in your country.. great. If you never heard of radio stations which played all black music... fine. If the 'pubs' you go to don't play strictly music made by blacks... wonderful. But what you DO NOT do... is turn around and use those aspects about YOUR culture and insist they must be truths about another culture you have NEVER experienced and call people from that culture LIARS, because you haven't experienced what they have. Well, I read Marrk's post totally different. BigDaddyHQ said: I have seen you in the past use these same excuses to defend other culturally offensive statements. Now you are calling my reasoning 'excuses'? And you say that I defend culturally offensive statements more often? I think that says a lot and proves my point once again: you are seeing things only from your culture. I can see where your reasoning is coming from, maybe you can try to see where my reasoning is coming from. Again, what you find culturally offensive doesn't mean it is offensive to everyone else and vice versa. BigDaddyHQ said: What you are doing... and you clearly are because you keep referring to the Netherlands where you are from... is excusing what he has said based on your own beliefs... your own tolerances or intolerances... your own communication barrier you sometimes have with people of other cultures and applying those traits to his comments. You are doing the exact same thing. And that is only natural. It doesn't however mean that one is right and the other not. Formerly known as Parade @ HQ and formerly proud owner of www.paradetour.com | |
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I can't believe I started this whole mess.
ANYWAY... can we please get back onto the subject. Some people here need to just exchange e-mail addresses and work out ya'lls issues!!!! lol I learned alot. There are many reasons that Adore is "not Adored", and many of those reasons seem to primarily be because they're not into Prince's slow stuff, and/or that it sounds cheesy, or ... whatever. I loved the comment that someone posted about Whitney Houston's "Didn't We Almost Have it All". People... THAT song is CHEESE! In my opinion however, Adore is the creme de la creme. There's never been a slow song that's better... for many reasons. I still don't think that Prince realizes what a gem he created. The public is squeezin' you kiddo. You'd better kick ass on your next album or else! | |
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I love this song! I don't get why some people don't like it.
Lyrically it is amazing. Probably one of the best songs he's ever written. It's just beautiful... This song almost symbolises the end of Prince to me. This is the last song on Sign of the Times album and he NEVER sounds the same after this. It's such a quiet gentle song. And it's just him and it's very, very intimate. Never has Prince sounded so good and in my mind he NEVER sounds as good again. That intimacy has gone completey from his work now. I love Adore, it's just peaceful and lovely and not really about sex but about love and just the happiness of being in love. I always wonder what the song is about. Who he adores? Is it a girlfriend, or sometimes I wonder if he's singing it to us, the audience, it's a sort of universal adoration yet intimate at the same time. Prince - how does he do it. Fucking amazing!!!! Shut up already, damn. | |
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DevotedPuppy said: 
:::cracks knuckles::: I wish Housequake was still up, because I know I posted there why I consider Adore to be Prince's most overrated song. I am not a "hater" (I don't "hate," it requires too much energy); but I always skip Adore (and didn't add it to my mp3 player). It seems too insincere or phony to me. Like he is saying all the 'right' lines that he thinks girls want to hear just so he can get some play. It's like he's trying to buy red roses, chocolates, lingerie, etc. because that's what society says is 'romantic' and girls like but they're just cheesey tokens, and superficial in the sense that's it's only for show or on the surface. There is no deeper thought behind it. The girl is interchangeable to him. Plus I'm not a fan of slow, sappy, love songs in general. 
On that album, I actually think Forever in My Life is the more sincere love song. Adore is like the player throwing lines, Forever in My Life is the guy who has finally realized he's met the one person he wants 'forever in his life'. [Edited 6/5/09 14:40pm] Interesting, because although I like 'Forever In My Life,' I would flip your descriptions of the songs. I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think. | |
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Militant said: You know, initially I thought "well, maybe the reason I don't see what the big deal is about Adore is because I'm not that into ballads"
But it's not true. The reason I don't like it is because it's slightly cheesy, the production isn't particularly innovative, it's Prince by-the-numbers, it's just very much nothing mindblowing for me. It's partially saved by second 3 minutes of the song, the first 3 minutes I find very bland. If it was a 3 minute song....I'd probably like it a bit more. It just takes way too long to kick into gear for my liking. "Crucial", however, is a fucking kickass ballad and MUCH MUCH better than "Adore". I don't hate "Adore". It's a pretty good song and SOTT is possibly my favorite Prince album as a whole. But if "Crucial" was on SOTT, it would be a much better album in my book. [Edited 6/5/09 16:15pm] "Crucial" should have replace " . . .Beautiful Night." Both of them could have been on the same album. I love them both. But 'Adore' has personal connotations for me so it's untouchable. I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think. | |
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Marrk said: BigDaddyHQ said: Always remember that on the Org... you are NOT allowed to associate any style of music with any culture or demographic of people. To do so means you live in a cave or a hole. In this case, you must submit to the notion that R&B is NOT created by nor listened too primarily by blacks and associated with our culture. The fact that Adore probably gets played almost every night during the 'Quiet Storm' set list of your local R&B stations means nothing. The fact that in most areas dominated by black culture... it is Prince's slow jams that he is known for, not his other music, is irrelevant here. The fact that Adore has been a night club bump n'grind, 'slow jam' favorite for decades is of no consequence. All I know is that I could be at a lounge, a club, at the beach. a house party or just cruising by in the car... if Adore comes on I'll hear a unified.. "heyyyyy thats my jam" I know what you mean... they don't. Shame too. But you're the one who gets labeled closed minded ..living in a hole or cave or something. That said.... like with all music... some people won't like it just because.. they don;t like it. No real reason why. Its just a matter of personal taste. Prince is not primarily an 'RnB' artist, and than goodness for that. There are No RnB stations playing 'Quiet storm' type playlists in the UK, Maybe that's our radio stations fault, but in the UK we don't have areas dominated by black culture countrywide, maybe some parts of London, but countrywide? no. we're for the most part a multicultural society, for better, for worse. On a normal night out, I've not heard Prince in any bar, Nightclub (even ones playing Funk) or pub for at least ten years full stop. He's not popular. I'd wager your whole "Heeeyyyy, that's my jam" paragraph is wishful fantasy and preaching to the peanut gallery. I'd be amazed if you heard 'Adore' in all those different places anytime recently. It's an old album track at the end of the day. But ultimately, you're right in one respect. great song. How can you say that from London? I live in California, having lived in Northern and Southern California, and 'Adore' not only get airplay, teenagers can sing it. Nightclub, anyplace with a jukebox . . That song is not going anywhere in the Black community. It's the classic it was meant to be. It should definitely have been a single even if only marketed to R&B radio. An easy #1. I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think. | |
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dothejump said: 1725topp said: we are left to wonder or assume why you would feel so comfortable in denying if not marginalizing someone else’s cultural experience.
And that is exactly what you did in your post. It is simple. In Europe we don't have black charts or black radio shows, we never had. The division is made by the type of music not the color of someone's skin. The big difference between the USA and Europe is their history. And although I try I will probably never understand why American society is still so divided but that doesn't make me a racist. On the other hand there are a lot of Americans on forums (also on prince.org) that easily use the words nazi and Gestapo which I think are never to be used except when you are talking about the real nazi's and Gestapo from 1940-1945. So before you are calling someone racist keep in mind where they come from. And don't accuse people of stuff you are guilty of yourself. European and American culture are different. ----- BTW I love 'Adore'. It is Prince at its best. [Edited 6/12/09 15:41pm] The Nazi Party and the Gestapo are older than 1940, no? I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think. | |
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So, any opinion on which lovely Prince girl was the muse for Adore?
I always heard it was Susannah. "Remember, one man's filler is another man's killer" -- Haystack | |
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MantuaPharoah said: WHY?
I just NEED to know! Many Prince fans consider this to be Prince's best song. There's even one website that I found that proclaims this to be the 2nd best R&B ballad EVER! (#1 was A Song for You by Donnie Hathaway) What's your reason for not liking Adore, or at least claiming it to be average and not all that? The lyrics? The music? The falsetto? The organ The chorus? Whatever the reason, I'd love to know!! To me, it's the greatest song in the history of MUSIC! (Maybe it's people making outrageous claims like that which cause you to not like Adore.) Whatever the reason... now is your chance What's your problem with the song???? Because in my opinion, it's an audible and expressive work of art. This is a trick question, you suck! "I have so much love for Prince. But why don't they look at me that way"- MJ | |
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Marrk said: TheKing662 said: i think Adore is the theme for black people(not trying to sound cocky) but it had dat Maxwell vibe to it.i know maxwell was not out at the time What the hell are you babbling about?  Prince's Sarah | |
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aarontj said: MantuaPharoah said: WHY?
I just NEED to know! Many Prince fans consider this to be Prince's best song. There's even one website that I found that proclaims this to be the 2nd best R&B ballad EVER! (#1 was A Song for You by Donnie Hathaway) What's your reason for not liking Adore, or at least claiming it to be average and not all that? The lyrics? The music? The falsetto? The organ The chorus? Whatever the reason, I'd love to know!! To me, it's the greatest song in the history of MUSIC! (Maybe it's people making outrageous claims like that which cause you to not like Adore.) Whatever the reason... now is your chance What's your problem with the song???? Because in my opinion, it's an audible and expressive work of art. This is a trick question, you suck! Ummm... I don't get it. But thank you for your intellectual input. The public is squeezin' you kiddo. You'd better kick ass on your next album or else! | |
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dothejump said: You are doing the exact same thing. And that is only natural. It doesn't however mean that one is right and the other not.
Maybe I'm using to many words. I'll break it down simple. You DO NOT call some one a liar simply because their life experience is different from your's. Just because you have not experienced something does not qualify you to call them a liar. Before getting into detail of subject matter.. that is an ignorant thing to do regardless. If you think calling some one a liar on a subject you have no clue about is OK... then... I don't know what to tell you. Cultural difference has nothing to do with that aspect. I'll just remember my own words "Always remember that on the Org... you are NOT allowed to associate any style of music with any culture or demographic of people." Prince is a musical icon. He has great importance to the African American community and is an artists we are proud of. Its a shame that on a fan site dedicated to him... its taboo for 'us' to express any relationship he and his music has to the African American Community and R&B music. People speak of being open minded... but its actually very closed minded when you suppress or express a refusal to understand that these aspects exist and are true to the lives of many of his fans. I'm sorry if other communities... other radio... other walks of life... don't get into any aspect of Prince the way that African Americans do his slow jams (and R&B in general) Music is at the very essence of our culture. I'm sorry you guys don't have that same relationship with this aspect of his music we do. It is what it is... and just because you can't understand that does not mean that relationship does not exist. | |
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prodigalfan said: So, any opinion on which lovely Prince girl was the muse for Adore?
I always heard it was Susannah. It was rumored that Prince wrote "Adore" for Susannah Melvoin. RIP, mom. I will forever miss and love you. | |
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