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Printableskywalker said: and I think most of "old fans" agrees as well:
"old fans"? Perspective is different due to timing not quality. No? C'mon now, Emancipation is more than happy pop and r&b. The boxes you are stuffing them in are too broad and convenient. I don't know if this is a thing of "old fans" versus "the new", but imo (I'm an oldie) Emancipation can't and will never "live up" to the classics of Controversy & 1999.
I don't think anyone was saying Emancipation is greater than 1999 or anything like that. The argument was that Emancipation is a classic in it's own right to many people. Furthermore, what you are saying seems to further the original topic...what is deemed as "classic" by people (whether is be Prince albums or any art) seems to have a lot more to do with timing that quality. It is a bit old fan vs. new fan, but really it's about where you are at personally in your life when art hits you. It's not a right or wrong argument.... U hit the ball out of the park.. Emancipation is a strong effort...and very ambitious, even with some of its fat... It's funny how some folks consistently lazily shit on this album...If you can't find more than 10 plus gems (and I can find more btw...) on that album, you r either not looking hard enough or you never gave that project a chance...Or, u were still living in the past at the time of that release... | |
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murph said: skywalker said: I don't think anyone was saying Emancipation is greater than 1999 or anything like that. The argument was that Emancipation is a classic in it's own right to many people. Furthermore, what you are saying seems to further the original topic...what is deemed as "classic" by people (whether is be Prince albums or any art) seems to have a lot more to do with timing that quality. It is a bit old fan vs. new fan, but really it's about where you are at personally in your life when art hits you. It's not a right or wrong argument.... U hit the ball out of the park.. Emancipation is a strong effort...and very ambitious, even with some of its fat... It's funny how some folks consistently lazily shit on this album...If you can't find more than 10 plus gems (and I can find more btw...) on that album, you r either not looking hard enough or you never gave that project a chance...Or, u were still living in the past at the time of that release... dude, those comments are so full of WIN | |
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Moonbeam said: Imago said: Many folks viewed this in a negative light, but let's face it, was there any really cool drumbing on 1999?
Perhaps not drumming, per se, but the percussion on 1999 is absolutely top notch. His mastery of the drum machine really manifested itself here. The title track is the apex of drum programming to me. Any guitar moments that just knocked your socks off on Controversy?
That chicken scratch on the title track is simply delicious! For me, Emancipation didn't have enough great songs to warrant its sprawling length. There's a reason threads pop up asking for the greatest single disc version of the album possible. For every "The Love We Make", there's something unappealing like "Jam of the Year" for me. That said, I do like what it stands for- Prince unfettered and able to unload a bunch of music on us. Prince's "artistic bloat" as you greatly put it (seriously  ) is one of the reasons I love him.Search your feelings. You know I'm right guRLLLL. write to right/english should be a phonetic language edit [Edited 6/13/09 8:38am] | |
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Emancipation isn't terrible,but it's one of those Prince albums that I don't revisit very often.There are a handful of really good songs but nothing truly outstanding or 'classic'. | |
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The major thing that I really undermined what was some really great songwriting was the faux-RKelly production. There's an interview with Forbes that came out at the time, where Prince tells the reporter "Take that, R Kelly!" as though Emancipation was his answer to RKelly's growing influence at the time.
What was especially irksome was the drum sounds Prince/Kirky chose to use on many of the songs. That clipped snare (with no reverb at all) made it sound extremely inorganic & plastic, like it was recorded in the blackhole of space and sucked the life out of the songs. "That...magic, the start of something revolutionary-the Minneapolis Sound, we should cherish it and not punish prince for not being able to replicate it."-Dreamshaman32 | |
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NuPwrSoul said: The major thing that I really undermined what was some really great songwriting was the faux-RKelly production. There's an interview with Forbes that came out at the time, where Prince tells the reporter "Take that, R Kelly!" as though Emancipation was his answer to RKelly's growing influence at the time.
What was especially irksome was the drum sounds Prince/Kirky chose to use on many of the songs. That clipped snare (with no reverb at all) made it sound extremely inorganic & plastic, like it was recorded in the blackhole of space and sucked the life out of the songs. I never read that, but it fits, ALL through the 90's, maybe because of finances, Prince was pandering to lowest common denominators, aping the sound of teeny bopper hits two years behind the beat. | |
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skywalker said: Honestly, I believe that most of people's taste/reaction/love towards a Prince album (or most art) has to do with timing, age, and so forth.
That is the main reason people can bitch and moan about "the new stuff". Ever since 1985, people have bitched about "new Prince" vs. "his old stuff". Fact is,with a time traveling Delorean, you could take songs off of Lotusflow3r project and drop them on 1987's Sign O' The Times and people would hail them as "genius". Timing is everything, people are used to Prince's greatness here in 2008...back in the day, we were behind the curve and opened to being amazed. [Edited 6/1/09 15:15pm] Oh, as always we have yet another great post from you. I have said the same thing. It's all about timing. I think I wrote a lil while back that new songs like Dance 4 Me would get so much more praised if they had been released in the 80's. | |
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This compilation also suffered from promotion issues radio-wise. | |
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It did take me time to get into the likes of some Prince albums namely Lovesexy,  etc but just could never never listen to more than 1 or 2 tracks off emancipation... just sounds cheap IMHO but nonetheless that doesn't make me a hater just uninspired by it | |
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Moonbeam said: There's a reason threads pop up asking for the greatest single disc version of the album possible. For every "The Love We Make", there's something unappealing like "Jam of the Year" for me. Both those would be on my single disc and that's the beauty of it.
I enjoy this album and spin it from time to time. It's not a favourite but there's certainly worse in the back catalogue for me. There's 2 or 3 on each disc that I can happily skip but with the other 8 or 9 being well liked, it's not a problem. Not like when there's 2 or 3 to be skipped on a 9 or 10 track album. I'd much rather have the quantity and choose my own personal quality.  RIP  | |
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While it's true that Emancipation does get more flak than it deserves. That's
only cuz fans tend to see everything as 'genius' or 'crap' with nothing in the middle. You only have to read the threads here to know that's true. As to Emancipation suffering from timing rather than quality, I disagree. All music is a product of it's 'timing', as soon as you start playing "well, if this had been released 10 years earlier..." game, it turns into a pointless argument. Emancipation's biggest problem is that it's not a 'great' album and it's not a 'bad' album either. As someone said earlier, it's "easy on the ears". In one sense this is a more damning criticism that people saying it's "shit". That's like calling it "easy listening", which is one step away from 'muzak' or calling it "nice" ("Nice" was often used as an insult by music critics, as it implies a blandness and lack of passion). The reason Emancipation isn't considered a 'great' is because it lacks variety, excitement and daring. Of course, a lot of the songs are actually very good. However, their execution and production means that all the highs and lows and diversity of the material has been ironed out. So that nothing really stands out and you never feel like anything really "goes for it". Prince's biggest strength used to be his daring, his use of a multitude of musical styles (a "kaleidoscope of musical colors" as Jill Jones put it) and his ability to create something alien and new. Emancipation just didn't fulfill it's potential. What should have been a bewildering showcase for Prince's more extreme talents, turned out to be a virtually one-flavor "OK" album, filled with mostly samey 'current' R&B sounding songs. While there's nothing greatly wrong with any one track really, the problem is that the album just lacks variation. Nothing "rocks" and nothing "funks". That's why it's not a 'great' album, just an 'OK' one... and in Prince-terms, that IS what makes it disappointing. | |
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BorisFishpaw said: While it's true that Emancipation does get more flak than it deserves. That's
only cuz fans tend to see everything as 'genius' or 'crap' with nothing in the middle. You only have to read the threads here to know that's true. As to Emancipation suffering from timing rather than quality, I disagree. All music is a product of it's 'timing', as soon as you start playing "well, if this had been released 10 years earlier..." game, it turns into a pointless argument. Emancipation's biggest problem is that it's not a 'great' album and it's not a 'bad' album either. As someone said earlier, it's "easy on the ears". In one sense this is a more damning criticism that people saying it's "shit". That's like calling it "easy listening", which is one step away from 'muzak' or calling it "nice" ("Nice" was often used as an insult by music critics, as it implies a blandness and lack of passion). The reason Emancipation isn't considered a 'great' is because it lacks variety, excitement and daring. Of course, a lot of the songs are actually very good. However, their execution and production means that all the highs and lows and diversity of the material has been ironed out. So that nothing really stands out and you never feel like anything really "goes for it". Prince's biggest strength used to be his daring, his use of a multitude of musical styles (a "kaleidoscope of musical colors" as Jill Jones put it) and his ability to create something alien and new. Emancipation just didn't fulfill it's potential. What should have been a bewildering showcase for Prince's more extreme talents, turned out to be a virtually one-flavor "OK" album, filled with mostly samey 'current' R&B sounding songs. While there's nothing greatly wrong with any one track really, the problem is that the album just lacks variation. Nothing "rocks" and nothing "funks". That's why it's not a 'great' album, just an 'OK' one... and in Prince-terms, that IS what makes it disappointing. Good post...though i disagree | |
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BorisFishpaw said: While it's true that Emancipation does get more flak than it deserves. That's
only cuz fans tend to see everything as 'genius' or 'crap' with nothing in the middle. You only have to read the threads here to know that's true. As to Emancipation suffering from timing rather than quality, I disagree. All music is a product of it's 'timing', as soon as you start playing "well, if this had been released 10 years earlier..." game, it turns into a pointless argument. Emancipation's biggest problem is that it's not a 'great' album and it's not a 'bad' album either. As someone said earlier, it's "easy on the ears". In one sense this is a more damning criticism that people saying it's "shit". That's like calling it "easy listening", which is one step away from 'muzak' or calling it "nice" ("Nice" was often used as an insult by music critics, as it implies a blandness and lack of passion). The reason Emancipation isn't considered a 'great' is because it lacks variety, excitement and daring. Of course, a lot of the songs are actually very good. However, their execution and production means that all the highs and lows and diversity of the material has been ironed out. So that nothing really stands out and you never feel like anything really "goes for it". Prince's biggest strength used to be his daring, his use of a multitude of musical styles (a "kaleidoscope of musical colors" as Jill Jones put it) and his ability to create something alien and new. Emancipation just didn't fulfill it's potential. What should have been a bewildering showcase for Prince's more extreme talents, turned out to be a virtually one-flavor "OK" album, filled with mostly samey 'current' R&B sounding songs. While there's nothing greatly wrong with any one track really, the problem is that the album just lacks variation. Nothing "rocks" and nothing "funks". That's why it's not a 'great' album, just an 'OK' one... and in Prince-terms, that IS what makes it disappointing. I agree. | |
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NuPwrSoul said: The major thing that I really undermined what was some really great songwriting was the faux-RKelly production. There's an interview with Forbes that came out at the time, where Prince tells the reporter "Take that, R Kelly!" as though Emancipation was his answer to RKelly's growing influence at the time.
What was especially irksome was the drum sounds Prince/Kirky chose to use on many of the songs. That clipped snare (with no reverb at all) made it sound extremely inorganic & plastic, like it was recorded in the blackhole of space and sucked the life out of the songs. I was disappointed when Prince made that comment.It's a shame that he felt that he had to compete with a loser like R.Kelly. | |
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MantuaPharoah said: Friend, Lover, Sister, Mother/Wife is an AMAZING ballad. It's my favorite song on Emancipation.
I think that what hurts Emancipation is that it's just... TOO MUCH MATERIAL! If Prince was a little more patient, he could have chopped this album up into one stellar piece of art. I don't recall the entir tracklist, but if I cut this down to 12 songs, this CLASSIC CD would have gone something like this. 1. Face Down 2. Right Back Here in My Arms 3. Somebody's Somebody 4. White Mansion 5. In This Bed I Scream 6. One Kiss at a Time 7. Soul Sanctuary 8. Joint 2 Joint 9. The Holy River 10. Friend Lover, Sister, Mother/Wife 11. Style 12. Emancipation Bonus: My Computer I couldn't agree MORE. Contained on Emancipation's 3 discs of clutter is 1 Disc of Crazy strong material. This album is exactly what Warners feared. Total over saturation. One thing Prince has had a lot of trouble with since the early 90's is trying to hard to fill up a full disc. A little bit of something is better than a whole lot of nothing. My personal theory on P post Batman: It's not always what songs you put on an album, sometimes it's what songs you leave off "Prince doesn't have verbal diarrhea, he has studio diarrhea...." Allen Leeds | |
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nyse said: BorisFishpaw said: While it's true that Emancipation does get more flak than it deserves. That's
only cuz fans tend to see everything as 'genius' or 'crap' with nothing in the middle. You only have to read the threads here to know that's true. As to Emancipation suffering from timing rather than quality, I disagree. All music is a product of it's 'timing', as soon as you start playing "well, if this had been released 10 years earlier..." game, it turns into a pointless argument. Emancipation's biggest problem is that it's not a 'great' album and it's not a 'bad' album either. As someone said earlier, it's "easy on the ears". In one sense this is a more damning criticism that people saying it's "shit". That's like calling it "easy listening", which is one step away from 'muzak' or calling it "nice" ("Nice" was often used as an insult by music critics, as it implies a blandness and lack of passion). The reason Emancipation isn't considered a 'great' is because it lacks variety, excitement and daring. Of course, a lot of the songs are actually very good. However, their execution and production means that all the highs and lows and diversity of the material has been ironed out. So that nothing really stands out and you never feel like anything really "goes for it". Prince's biggest strength used to be his daring, his use of a multitude of musical styles (a "kaleidoscope of musical colors" as Jill Jones put it) and his ability to create something alien and new. Emancipation just didn't fulfill it's potential. What should have been a bewildering showcase for Prince's more extreme talents, turned out to be a virtually one-flavor "OK" album, filled with mostly samey 'current' R&B sounding songs. While there's nothing greatly wrong with any one track really, the problem is that the album just lacks variation. Nothing "rocks" and nothing "funks". That's why it's not a 'great' album, just an 'OK' one... and in Prince-terms, that IS what makes it disappointing. Good post...though i disagree I was thinking the same thing 
It's one of those posts that I really like but don't agree with. Though I do agree it lacks daring. I disagree that being easy on the ears is damning. But agree about the ironing out and not being daring (musically). | |
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