dance4me said:

Let's remember the facts:

Your conjecture is hit and miss covering a four year span with tabloids vs music, covering different and totally unrelated incidences in Prince's life. Bodyguards? Didn't hurt Madonna's career when Sean was fighting off photographers. The True Blue years were her most successful and fruitful to that point by far, and the stadium-filled Who's That Girl? Tour was a blowout of success.

First of all, everyone thought Michael Jackson was a freak back then and still does, yet he had three #1 albums in a row during all that and a string of #1 singles from all those albums, rumors including but not limited to hyperbaric chambers, elephant man bones, skin lighter, different nose again, shrines to Elizabeth Taylor, etc etc plagued him (although a lot of those were planted by Frank Dileo, his manager, to garner attention but they backfired on him in the public's perception of him, yet he still had a #1 album). Bad sold 30 million records. Dangerous sold 32 million. HIStory (post first child molestation case) sold 20 million (which totaled 40 million units - 2 disks). So that whole tabloid thing is a LOT of conjecture and reaching, and obviously influences NOTHING in record sales. Prince wasn't caught fondling children. MJ was, yet still sold records. But comparing MJ and Prince is apples and oranges anyway. What did Prince sell even close to that BESIDES Purple Rain? How long does an alleged backlash last? MJ has been out of public favor for over a decade, yet even his weakest album Invincible still sold 10 million records.

If Tipper Gore did anything, it was sell more Purple Rain albums. The whole banning or labeling of rock albums have never done anything BUT sell more records. Put a rock band's name into the limelight and point fingers, people will ALWAYS side w/ the rock band. Their rebels, and become the underdog against THE MAN. People love the underdog to win. And remember again, more clearly, Lovesexy was either not racked, or put behind the counter because of the cover, not the content. It didn't garner a "Explicit Content" sticker because it had no explicit content. Some places just put it in a brown wrapper.

There were a slew of albums Tipper was going after. It was "Darling Nikki" that alerted her to it. Everyone from Dee Snider, Frank Zappa, and John Denver showed up in defense of music. Madonna was also attacked for her sexuality onstage and on record, yet her Virgin Tour was a huge, sold-out success. And her albums didn't have a warning label on them until 1992's Erotica. But Tipper holding up a copy of Purple Rain, using the word "masturbating", and talking about how lewd the song was sexually, and Prince is out on tour at the time....that's a major CHA-CHING moment.

Also remember this clearly: The record industry decided to police themselves, there was NEVER a law passed mandating stickering of an album. Tipper wanted a laundry list of codes, like O for Occult, X for sexuality, V for violence, L for language, etc on the album cover. They also wanted the lyrics printed on the back of an album, so parents would supposedly spend 20 minutes siphoning through a list of 8 point fonts to see if FUCK or SHIT was PUSSY was in a lyric. Yet no one ever did that. NONE of the "requirements" that Tipper and company wanted were EVER used. In fact, it's only TV that uses a system even remotely close to that. And not all records w/ cursing have a sticker. Michael Jackson's HIStory was filled with F bombs, yet "dedicated to all the children of the world", and there was NO sticker on that album, and a very small "warning" on the "Scream" single which had "fucking" in the lyrics. And what was Prince's first album with a sticker? Hmm, not Parade. Not SOTT. Not Lovesexy. Not Graffiti Bridge. Not Batman. Not D&P. Not . The Hits might have, I think. Emancipation did. An artist w/ clout could probably fight having a sticker on their album if they really wanted. MJ and Prince aren't the only examples of that.

Prince never sold TONS of albums before or after Purple Rain. Purple Rain was the stand out moment. The same Thriller was for MJ. The same Like A Prayer was for Madonna. The same Born in the USA was for Bruce. The same Rhythm Nation was for Janet. Those were the apex moments for these artists. Everyone gets one, but rarely gets two. It's the monster, not the norm. Prince was selling a million or two records each BEFORE PR, and he went back to that AFTER PR. #1 doesn't equal a million records, as we know. Lotus was #2, and wasn't even near the half way mark to even making Gold status, much less platinum (which it will NEVER reach).

The fact also remains that despite Ronnie and Georgie being in office, Prince still did what he wanted, and people still bought the records. The same people who bought Controversy were buying Lovesexy. And Lovesexy sold a bit more, so his popularity (yet both of those albums only went Gold in sales status.)

O.K. man,facts you say.It is WELL documented that there WAS a backlash. Just for kicks, if you have the book DanceMusicSexRomance Prince: The First Decade by Per Nilsen -and I feel confident that you do-go to page 173, and there you will read:
"Having been the darling of the U.S. press for years, it was almost inevitable that Prince would at some point experience a BACKLASH. During 1985, the media perception of him began to subtly change, and the press began to foucus on his alleged egomania, paranoia, and eccentricity. His refusal to talk to the media, which had contributed to building a mystique in the past, now worked against him, making him a target for more or less fabricated stories. Less than flattering accounts by Andre Cymone and former Time members Jesse Johnson and Morris Day, all of whom were promoting solo albums in 1985, contributed to the negative media image."
The book then goes into the drama w/ Chick Huntsberry and his National Enquirer interview-later published and titled "The Real Prince-He's trapped in a Bizarre Secret World of Terror".
THEN came the battle with Tipper and the PRMC-remember, we're in 1985 AFTER the success of Purple Rain- and goes on to say that "right wing elements in the media enthusiastically embraced this new crusade and the week before the hearing, SEPTEMBER 19TH 1985, People magazine placed Prince, Madonna, and David Lee Roth on a cover asked 'Has Rock Gone Too Far?'
So you can remember the "facts" the way you want to, but history (and Per Nilsen) show us otherwise.

O.K. man,facts you say.It is WELL documented that there WAS a backlash. Just for kicks, if you have the book DanceMusicSexRomance Prince: The First Decade by Per Nilsen -and I feel confident that you do-go to page 173, and there you will read:
"Having been the darling of the U.S. press for years, it was almost inevitable that Prince would at some point experience a BACKLASH. During 1985, the media perception of him began to subtly change, and the press began to foucus on his alleged egomania, paranoia, and eccentricity. His refusal to talk to the media, which had contributed to building a mystique in the past, now worked against him, making him a target for more or less fabricated stories. Less than flattering accounts by Andre Cymone and former Time members Jesse Johnson and Morris Day, all of whom were promoting solo albums in 1985, contributed to the negative media image."

The book then goes into the drama w/ Chick Huntsberry and his National Enquirer interview-later published and titled "The Real Prince-He's trapped in a Bizarre Secret World of Terror".

THEN came the battle with Tipper and the PRMC-remember, we're in 1985 AFTER the success of Purple Rain- and goes on to say that "right wing elements in the media enthusiastically embraced this new crusade and the week before the hearing, SEPTEMBER 19TH 1985, People magazine placed Prince, Madonna, and David Lee Roth on a cover asked 'Has Rock Gone Too Far?'

the backlash was that people wanted 2 contain prince in2 a jar and still do 2 this day.....when ur on top of the world, everyone wants 2 tear u down and try 2 find something wrong with u. when prince started isolating himself from even people in his own camp, it just left a nasty taste in people's mouths.

em-didnt the fact he didnt turn up at the recording of we are the world start the backlash-in the US at least. He was deffo alot more popular in Europe after Purple Rain for years. I even remember when the papers said he was having Paisle Park-in Birmingham UK.lol-i wish

I remember reading that when it came out. What was bizarre even back then was the article itself. It was just like "WTF?!" Everyone's called "bizarre" at some point. But when you're 26 and a rock star that EVERYONE knows, NOTHING is "normal" anymore. What's normal to Prince would be bizarre to middle America. It's all about perspective there.

polkadotbliss said:

Bob Geldof stated it would always count against Prince that he didn't show up. I'm not sure if Bob was aware of Prince's situation with the bodyguards and bailing them out, or whatever when he made that statement to the press, but he was really pissy about it. I remember someone, perhaps Sheila E or Wendy or Lisa, saying that Prince would have just "clammed up" in a situation like was presented in the recording session, being around a huge amount of people like that. It seemed they were trying to just take some of the heat off the situation and squelch it a bit. Not sure how well that worked. Even Mr. Michael "I'm Shy" Jackson was there and just wore sunglasses. Fine, eccentric to wear them inside, but at least he was there.

I wish Prince had shown up though. It would have been the only duet between MJ and Prince perhaps, because he was due to sing Huey Lewis' part in the bridge w/ Cyndi Lauper as well.

skywalker said:

I agree,
but rap was very different in the early/mid 80's

music in the 80's in general was very cross over friendly or fusion like
Even rap music had a lot of rock n roll elements
Run DMC being one of the biggest rock groups of the time were rock music fans themselves: King of Rock
They also were responsible for resurrecting Aerosmith when they joined with them to do Walk This Way,(which by the way was had a more metal feel than Aerosmiths funkier version)

And Public Enemy had 1 or 2 songs using the rock guitar solo from Let's Go Crazy

Also Sheila E.'s Romance 1600 album saw her bring Erotic City to Hip Hop via Krush Groove, she definately had the 2 best performances of the movie:A Love Bizare and Holly Rock

Simply put, the band wagoners jumped back off.

so prince wanting a camel at 3am in minneapolis is normal 2 u?

Artistically I don't think we can put Michael Jackson in the same catagory with Prince / Madonna

I doubt Madonna was doing what the audience wanted she probably took more better risks than Prince that helped her career especially being a woman who was openly sexual(that's a backlash for a woman back then) her performances:Like A Virgin, Like A Prayer video kissing a black saint and the controversy that video caused. the SEX book, Truth or Dare, Erotic, (putting homosexuality in your in visuals via videos and tours) the Girlie Show which I saw and was spectacular

She might not be the same as Prince but she is an entertainer who was always in charge of her career, she had a F you attitude in a lot of her choices. And she is still at the top of her career.

There was no backlash, only that after the film and soundtrack, people who didn't know him didn't know how to take the real him. Prince was/is an underground artist who briefly went overground w/ Purple Rain. He came out of a weird era that had artists who'd have been otherwise undergound (OR mostly on the R and B charts) and stayed that way emerge into mainstrem acceptance....some relatively briefly (Prince) others more long term (Madonna and MJ from the R and B standpoint).

Prince never was truly a pop act, but a cool movie and soundtrack had him there for a minute. I honestly don't think he or his hardcore fans needed for him to stay a pop star for too long.

LOL...this is the story of Iggy Pop's life, tho he's never been fully overgound, IMHO.
[Edited 6/1/09 17:23pm]

O.K. man,facts you say.It is WELL documented that there WAS a backlash.

Just for kicks, if you have the book DanceMusicSexRomance Prince: The First Decade by Per Nilsen -and I feel confident that you do-go to page 173, and there you will read:

"Having been the darling of the U.S. press for years, it was almost inevitable that Prince would at some point experience a BACKLASH. During 1985, the media perception of him began to subtly change, and the press began to foucus on his alleged egomania, paranoia, and eccentricity. His refusal to talk to the media, which had contributed to building a mystique in the past, now worked against him, making him a target for more or less fabricated stories. Less than flattering accounts by Andre Cymone and former Time members Jesse Johnson and Morris Day, all of whom were promoting solo albums in 1985, contributed to the negative media image."

The book then goes into the drama w/ Chick Huntsberry and his National Enquirer interview-later published and titled "The Real Prince-He's trapped in a Bizarre Secret World of Terror".

THEN came the battle with Tipper and the PRMC-remember, we're in 1985 AFTER the success of Purple Rain- and goes on to say that "right wing elements in the media enthusiastically embraced this new crusade and the week before the hearing, SEPTEMBER 19TH 1985, People magazine placed Prince, Madonna, and David Lee Roth on a cover asked 'Has Rock Gone Too Far?'

So you can remember the "facts" the way you want to, but history (and Per Nilsen) show us otherwise.

brooksie said:

I disagree, there WAS a backlash, let me repeat what has been written
already

after selling 18 million copies of the Purple Rain album, the backlash happened, people seemed to have got tired with Prince, he was often described as a weird freak - and suddenly his albums & singles weren't selling that much,

fantastic albums like Parade, Sign O' The Times and Lovesexy were selling rather poorly.... compared to his own former success - and compared to artists like MJ and Madonna,


the music was still so fantastic,

what were the reasons to this backlash.....?

OldFriends4Sale said:

Agree, but rap/hip hop was not mainstream until the very late 80's or early 90's.

skywalker said:

Your right, and we are just adding 2 1 anothers posts positively
the thing about 80's Rap was that there was a lot of 'fusion' going on
Music wasn't so black n white
even a lot of RnB had a pop feel with frequent elect guitar solos and the Minneapolis sound infuenced music big time back then via Prince, Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis:SOS band Alexander O'Neal Janet Jackson

Also the style of artist was unique including rappers

Well, let's not get carried away. Prince had all the trademarks of an underground artist during Dirty Mind and Controversy eras. However, he always kept his pop sensibilities. Just look at his 1st two albums. "I wanna be ur lover"? Very pop and cute.

Anyways, once "Little Red Corvette" and MTV hit, Prince was no longer an "underground" artist. He had a plethora of pop oriented grooves and had top 10 to top 40 singles on the pop charts from 1983 every year until he left Warner Bros. Hardly going only "briefly overground". That said, he never shipped much more than platinum+ per record in the U.S. on average...

That's one of the things I love about Prince...even now he's got one foot in the underground, one in the pop world.
[Edited 6/1/09 19:49pm]

The OP asked why his albums didn't sell so well after PR, correct? I didn't deny that he had hits before or after PR, esp once he hit MTv, however what would account for such a drastic drop in ALBUM sales (as opposed to hit singles) AFTER this point? I consider him more of an album artist, tbh so what's the deal? As for "Little Red Corvette" playing on MTv, you're talking about at a time whem most people didn't have cable, so that couldn't have made Prince a pop star back then. Of course, they didn't play him in heavy rotation back then either. We don't have to revisit why that was, right?

I don't consider him a pop artist in the purest sense then or now, but an artist who had basic mainstream fame a la Purple Rain (movie and soundtrack) and some singles. I think of a pop artist being someone who has wide popularity and sales that represent that. For an artist of Prince's stature and longevitity, his overall sales don't say that to me, sorry. Madonna started as an underground artist as well, but she went and stayed fully overground, unlike Prince. Madonna never had a drastic peak and drop like P. To me that's an underground artist who briefly went overground. The people who are "carried away" are the ones who keep insisting that Prince's overall pop popularity was greater than it was.

Now I consider him mostly a fan thing. He has very little presence or relevance in the present pop world other than as an influence, not as a performing artist.

My overall point is that Prince didn't experience a "backlash" after PR but that the mainstream public generally didn't "get" him before or after, a few hits being the exception to the rule.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Madonna, like Prince, started out as an underground artist (NYC punk/nu wave/no wave scene). People may look back on her stuff now as quaint (tho check some of her pre "Madonna" releases), but back then she was radical for all the reasons you name. In terms of cultural impact and outrage, she gave Prince a real run for the money.

Even today she still can outrage. Nobody criticizes Prince or MJ for being their age and still performing, but Madonna frequently gets torn to shread for having the nerve to be a 50 year old woman w/ kids and still at the top of the pop game.

Just to be clear: Prince's 1st album with an official parental warning sticker was Graffiti Bridge.

OldFriends4Sale said:

but how could Purple Rain sell amazingly 18 mill. copies and then the sales dropped to only 2 or 3 millions. If I remember right: Lovesexy sold less than a million in the US and the Lovesexy tour was doing badly too,