GodsloveisTrue said:

I think people forget where Prince came from sometimes. Pretend ejaculating over concert goers with his guitar, talking about raping someone in Extra Lovable, talking about "fucking the taste out of your mouth" .

There sure are other musicians as good as Prince and we talk about them all the time over in the Music: Non-Prince Section. But look at the term you just used yourself, "musicians". That little piece of bleach blonde shit hop trash ain't no musician.



Talented in what? Talking over a slow weak sounding computerized beat?



I guess so, this is the shit hop generation and he's a shit hopper. I know Prince has lowered himself to shit hop before but "M&M" is a full fledged shit hopper. That alone puts him beneath Prince. Hell, that even puts him beneath trash man. At least the trash man is doing the world some good by getting rid of trash. "M&M" is trash himself.

[quote]

GodsloveisTrue said:

Yep. As long as you do it in a funky song rather than some dull ass shit hop, I'm fine with it.

eminem has some GREAT music, sure its completely different 2 Prince's and i dont think its really fair compare the 2 as they r both great in completely different ways(yes, i think eminem is great), but take a listen with a open mind and u might get a surprise

there r alot of artist that i dont like but i dont call them irrelevant or nobodys.
eminem is relevant and a somebody in 2days music world so 2 say he's not makes u look ignorant and stupid
[Edited 5/17/09 19:49pm]

I love 'em

This piece of genius satire says it all about the Eminem/Fred Durst etc phenomenon.

*WARNING: May offend. It's a clip from the 3rd most complained about tv show in Britains history...because the complainers had an IQ of 4 and didn't understand genius satire*

http://www.youtube.com/wa...30HY_EhaG0
[Edited 5/18/09 10:27am]

Who is He???Does He make music?

Yeah that's actually rather poignant. He originates from the same are as Fred Durst - it's the time when [i}both[/i] Eminem and Limp Bizkit got big - yet, for some oblivious reason people don't always seem to recognize this. Those two guys are not miles apart, and hell, in retrospect Fred Durst actually might have been even the more likable one.

SPOOKYGAS said:

yeah, saw that after the fact, but the rest of the msg still applies.
personally, i like m&m, i think he's fun, even in his xtreme lyrics (i mean, i m a prince fan, right?) he has done his share of poking fun at others 2... mayb not by name, but in general, we no who he was speaking of.

n, who r we 2 judge m&m? judge not, lest u b judged by the same measure...

if any1 is trying 2 bias any1 else on who they like 2 listen 2, that makes us hypocrites, b-cuz, i, like u, m SURE that u have been slammed 4 b-ing a prince fan, or some1 has made comments about his look, his dress, his music and/or most typically his sexuality. did that ever change ur mind about b-ing a fan?
not i. ppl will judge, but, by the man's words themselves i never let any1 think that i m less than they r.

always,
sin

a collaboration would be nice, Prince singing like Camille and EMINEN rapping on over the FUNK!

Dayclear said:

too cute
[Edited 5/18/09 18:43pm]

Dayclear said:

You know, I'm gay. But I'd still take my chances on that, JUST to get the M&M's. I ain't skurr'd.

ernestsewell said:

Awww snap!

GodsloveisTrue said:

I draw the line at extreme violence in song lyrics.Yes,"Sister" is a controversial song but it's not the same thing as the disturbing,violent lyrics that Emimem specializes in.And yes,Prince occasionally talks about other celebrities in his songs but he doesn't do extreme,inflammatory put-downs.I don't see him making videos where he disses other celebrities.

This is a silly comparison anyway.Eminem is not on Prince's level.Anybody can cuss on a record or say something "shocking" in a rap.Big deal.

SoulAlive said:

You're not comparing like with like - they operate in entirely different genres. And whilst I appreciate that a lot of Eminem's subject matter isn't to everyone's taste, you can't deny that his range of flows and his lyrical ability are stunning.

He's as good a rapper as there has ever been (Vibe voted him the best rapper alive last year), and like someone mentioned earlier, Prince (and countless other artists) have relied on sensationalism and saying or doing the unexpected/taboo over the years. The difference is that what Prince was doing in 1980 wouldn't be considered particularly outlandish now. Society has become increasingly decensitised so you have to push the envelope further to stand out.

There was a thread here a few months ago, where about 55% of the posters agreed that Prince was a better dancer than Michael Jackson. This thread is similar in that it shows up just how hopelessly ignorant most orgers are.

Eminem is an asshole, but anyone who has heard "Stan" or "Whatever You Say I Am" and can't see how talented he is, can only be called a fool. And as far as relevance goes, Eminem is the single most relevant artist of this decade. Whether you love him or hate him most serious people know that. Some of you guys seem to wear your ignorance as a badge of honour.
[Edited 5/20/09 4:23am]

phunkymunky said:

This will be Japanese to most orgers. They know nothing about the ART of lyrical flow, so all they see is the surface sensationalism and are completely oblivious to the skill being displayed. You also have to remember that the majority of them have never actually sat down and listened to Eminem's best work. To do so would mean having to give props to a modern rapper, and that would be painful for them. Remember, most prejudiced people ENJOY their prejudice and don't want to have to challenge their own biases. Once you understand that, then you understand the subtext of this whole thread (and many others).

If any more open-minded orgers want to find out why Em is the most respected rapper of the last ten years, then I'd recommend his second album, The Marshall Mathers LP, as the best example of his talent. I don't like his personality, or his recent work, but his skill (particularly a few years ago) is not a subject for debate amongst knowledgeable people.

midnightmover said:

Then call me a fool, please. "Stan" is hardly anything else than naive egoist bullshit to my own ears. That track in particular follows a pretty standard pop-hiphop structure with a female voclist doing the chorus (which is a completely redundant part in the thematic development of the said "song"). Perhaps it is trying to somehow deep in its lyrical theme, but shows that guy hardly can write about anything else than himself and how special he thinks he is. The real mystery is of course why the large public ended up buying that part - he is not that terribly interesting an individual.

midnightmover said:

Uhm, well no. Eminem isn't that particularly respected artist in the hiphop circles - he is seen just as a pop icon for the most part. Now, my own taste in hiphop is limited mostly to some underground standards like Antipop Consortium, cLOUDDEAD, Dälek or what came out on Anticon during their peak, but to even seriously suggest that Eminem would be a match to such artists is totally silly. Eminem hangs out with folks like 50 Cent and makes videos where he mocks celebrities with the aid of bright cartoon colours to attract the largest amount of 10-to-15-year-olds.

midnightmover said:

Lyrically...both Eminem and Prince have had "WTFs" and "STFUs" thrown at them...
but I'd have to say that Prince has had more "WTFs" than "STFUs" thrown at him and Eminem has had more "STFUs" than "WTFs" thrown at him.
Eminem does have a decent flow but he raps about too much violence, degrading, embarrassin and makin a mockery of other artists and celebrities.
He lost all respect and credibility from me when he started makin degradin jocks at ppl.

novabrkr said:

it seems ur referring a lot 2 his videos being cartoonish, however that can said about a lot of videos 2day. and not every video em has released is poking fun at celebrities

"it seems ur referring a lot 2 his videos being cartoonish"? Well, I can only spot having referred to them being that only once in this thread. That is, in the above quoted passage. Where are the other occasions? I might have made such comments before, but I can't remember when was the last time I contributed to an Eminem thread on the .org.

novabrkr said:

Eminem is incredibly regarded in hiphop circles - both by the industry and by fans alike - and since when has making some popular songs been completely incompatible with artistic respect? By that logic the only people who deserve respect are people who make inaccessible or unpopular music. Which is just a nonsense.

phunkymunky said:

No, it does not lead to such "logic". There's nothing logical about such a conclusion as you just made up that yourself, basically. Any better supporting arguments you could present for the claim that "Eminem is incredibly regarded in hiphop circles" - other than thinking the hiphop circles fundamentally consist of the "industry" and the "fans alike"?

The artists that I mentioned, like Dälek or cLOUDDEAD, are not exactly that inaccessible if you just happen to like decent music. They just don't happen to operate themselves on a cultural field where the record buying audience primarily consists of kids, That is the real difference there.

novabrkr said:

It's hard to imagine anyone getting it more wrong than you have here. Eminem's second album featured him dealing with the nature of his new-found fame, and yes, "Stan" was a part of that. Your criticism seems to be that this is narcissistic. Where have you been? Don't you know that nearly all artists invariably write about themselves and their experiences in some way? Have you ever listened to a John Lennon or a Joni Mitchell album?

What was brilliant about "Stan" was that he took this new celebrity status and made a modern-day parable out of it that showed (brilliantly) how celebrities can often become magnets for disturbed characters who they've never even met. Like it or not, this is a very real phenomenom, which is why so many celebrities surround themselves with bodyguards. The real point (which you missed) is that he makes the character and the story completely believable and engaging. Listen to how the first verse starts off relatively sanely, but with hints of the violence to come. Listen to how the true nature of Stan's twisted psyche is slowly manifested until it finally explodes in the third verse. Then note how Eminem comes in on the last verse to put the story into a different context. Listen to how he piles on the details from verse to verse (scribbling addresses too sloppy, waiting outside the venue in the blistering cold, etc.). It is storytelling at it's very best.

And the chorus, far from being "redundant", actually sums up the way fans turn to their idols as a comfort from their own everyday lives. It also makes the story more palatable because it has such a sweet melody. There are thousands of storytelling songs which also have repeated choruses. From old folk songs and country songs to Bruce Springsteen songs. They are there to make the songs feel like songs rather than essays. To criticize "Stan" for having a repeated chorus is, frankly, bizarre.


"Not respected in hip-hop circles"? Is that why Vibe magazine voted him "the best rapper alive"? But then if the only rappers you know of are European ones then it's no wonder you're so out of touch. Sorry, but hip-hop is an American artform. European rap is, for the most part, dreadful.

You're also guilty of judging a book by it's cover. I HATE Eminem's silly and childish joke songs. If I were to only judge him on the basis of them, then I would also criticize him as you have. But there's a lot more to him than that, as you'd know if you actually listened to his classic work. You admitted earlier that all the critics were raving about him for years, and that you didn't understand why. In this you are like the numerous Prince haters I've met throughout the years who say "He's crap", when what they really mean is "He's weird, and I don't understand him". Their prejudice means they simply don't WANT to like him. Same goes for you, and most others on this thread.

SoulAlive said:

Arent they those little sweets that come in different colours and can also be bought with peanuts inside too?

ernestsewell said:

Yea, but your wet dream ideal, Family 2.0, now they're relevant...

My bad
[Edited 8/13/10 16:57pm]

ernestsewell said:[quote]

Dayclear said:

Now why doesn't that surprise me...

wrekkastow said:

Damn, I just had a couple of bags of those.