Often when Prince releases new material i read reactions here by fans (who are not content with his new music) like: why doesnt he release the material from the Vault, it is so much better?...or something, like that.

That makes me wonder: does Prince himself see that the same way?
I sorta doubt that.

I mean... maybe he simply feels his new material is better then that in the vault, and that for example Incense and Candles is a better song then In all my dreams or Witness for the prosecution.

One of the things that occured to me since the mid-nineties is that Prince often quite frequently seems to have 'problems' to recognize if a song he created is a real winner, mere filler or something in between.

Its not something I really blame him for personally, because I think he does it mostly unpurposely. But sometimes I think he misses the influence / pressure from some narrowly involved bandmembers (Wendy and Lisa, Leeds), a good manager (Leeds nr. 2) or a record company (WB) to help him realise that not all of the (hundreds) of songs he creates are great, and who dare to say a thing like: this is not a very strong track, dont put in unto the album.

What are your views on this? Do you also think that Prince sometimes has problems with 'quality control', or do you think its a non-issue?
[Edited 5/7/09 13:00pm]

Riverpoet31 said:

I do think that Prince is aware of the high quality of most of the songs that collect dust in the vault.
I also think that Prince, unlike most of us, is not stuck in the past. By saying this, I don't mean we are nostalgic all over and blame him for not releasing the songs we'd like to hear and we got to know via unofficial sources; all I wanna say is that when an album is out, a song cut and finished, he's just moved on and doesn't think about that studio material anymore.

The fact he performed live In A Large Room With No Light may just be a coincidence; he felt like it, he did it. Doesn't necessarily mean he's about to release some vault material (I'm prayin' all I'm sayin' is just bullshit; Prince please, release 10 albums with vault material...).

Lots of artists have that problem, Rick Rubin is resting his career on it!

I agree that Prince is probably just more excited about what he's doing now than what he did years ago. And aside from a few notable exceptions, I think Prince releases his best stuff and keeps the filler in the vaults.

Interesting enough, to continue this conversation: some of us have the so called "vault" music. If I am not mistaken, are they not called bootlegs? I could be mistaken but somehow "they" the boots, I would think, are exactly that. The problem, I believe with why Prince may not ever release these songs would be because he is in a different place mentally (he's a JW) and the "lyrical content" may not be something he would want to hear or us to hear.Even though we really want to hear these "gems", I know I do but I have a lot of music from P.

PurpleLove7 said:

That could be the main reason nowadays. Maybe, if he decided to edit prophanities and change those songs to have them put out on the market, we would have been disappointed once more, like say: Oh, good, he finally decides to put out Rebirth Of The Flesh and then he slashes off the f-word!

I say that bootleg should remain bootleg. Not for the sake of bootleggers, but for art's sake.
[Edited 5/7/09 13:24pm]

From what I have heard the bootlegs are good, and sometimes great.

But I don't think any of the compilations (legal or otherwise) are as good as legit Prince albums--with the obvious exception of the Black Album. Stuff like Crystal Ball has great songs, and is instantly likable, but honestly Emancipation had more legs for me. It held together better because it was a true album.

Still, I'd buy C.B. II if he released it!
[Edited 5/7/09 13:25pm]

To make my own view clear:

I personally think the whole idea of some vault being filled to the brim with great material, is somewhat a case of wishfull thinking by some of the fans.

Sure, there are, for example, some brilliant outtakes from the mid-and late eighties that need to be released official someday.
But i bet for every gem, there is a lame remix of some 90's albumtrack to be found in the vault, next to endless studio-jams and sketchy demo's that have never been turned (and probably could not be turned) into great songs.

To put it short: The idea of the vault being some 'holy grail' for Prince fans probably is exaggerated. I think there are as many gems as failures to be found inside.
[Edited 5/7/09 13:25pm]

NDRU said:

U funk!

Great topic! I think that because he controls everything related to his music and probably doesn't want any outside input on his music, he is really biased and can't tell the difference now between filler material and 'hits'. He probably doesn't care to recognize if it could be a hit anymore and that (IMO) is reflected in his more recent music. Back in the day (it seems to me) that he had no problems recognizing hits from misses, but obviously now he can put out a lot of misses and not care because I don't think he is 'hungry'anymore (he doesn't have to be, as he is already super-rich and famous). So I think that he lacks the drive to make great music, or music that would appeal
This is my 2 cents.

kenlacam said:

In a word: uninspired?

I've think we've gotten some songs from the vault and never even knew it. I mean who really knows?

There are more than twenty hours of outtakes circulating from 1975-1995 and most of them are real songs, not remixes; and that doesn't even represent everything we know was recorded during that period. I'm sure there are also songs that we don't know were recorded, especially after 1996.

I think Prince is still excited about songwriting and releasing new music. There are times when he re-works an old song like The Dance or U're Gonna C Me maybe it's cause he heard it again and feels he can put new life into it and fit into what he's doing now. Who knows? Aside from those songs, it seems like he's interested in what's going on now with the music that pops into his head than dealing with music from 20 years ago, him being a JW or not.

Do I think the stuff from the Vault will see the light of day? I hope so, as a fan, who wouldn't want that but I don't want music EXCLUSIVELY from the vault. As long as there is new music that he wants to make, I wanna hear it. If the new music doesn't cater to you, oh well, there's always the next CD, if that person wants to wait for the new CD but that's their choice. I know I'll be at that CD store or whereever buying the new music the day it comes out. I don't know what the man is thinking, as none of us do, but you got to admit, it's quite interesting.

kenlacam said:

I said in my post earlier that I don't know what the man is thinking but how do you know that he's lacks the drive to make great music? You and I weren't and aren't there when he's in the studio making songs. Just because you don't think anything after 2000 or whenever from P is great doesn't mean that he wasn't inspired to make those songs. You're just not inspired from it. I think a lot of Prince's music in the 00's has been great, does that make me wrong or crazy? C'mon now! While I have issues with what you said, I respect your opinion.
[Edited 5/7/09 15:00pm]

thAn.

Riverpoet31 said:

Nah, he does have lots of complete, unreleased songs. The amount of boots that are known are proof of that already and those are not all.

Sure, "the vault" is probably also loaded with jams, filler, concert recordings and unfinished ideas, but wouldn't you like a crystal clear recording of that show you attended then and then, or that mindblowing 15 minute guitar jam he recorded in a wave of inspiration?
-
[Edited 5/7/09 15:53pm]

Is Prince even as fussy as his fans are where his vault is concerned?

Tremolina said:

yeah, there is certainly some great stuff there, live & studio.

And one thing about Prince, I think once he starts a song he finishes it, so even if the quality is iffy, they are probably mostly complete songs.

Any one of us have had choices set before us. Prince has chosen to put the songs where he put them at that particular time.

To say that anything that Prince dedicated himself to is, "filler material," is just rude.

It was what it was, it is what it is...We take our favorite songs with us and relisten to them giving them new life as Prince does when he plays, "Purple Rain," for the Umpteenth time...and Prince does that to be generous.

Life presses onward...When something is done it's done. Life is all about accepting what is set before U.

<--- Among his fans who don't think the Vault exists (anymore).

Tame said:

Nobody sets out to write a filler song. But not every moment of our lives is inspired. That's how you get Poom Poom or Da Bang. Maybe they're good because a great musician made them, but they are not essential, inspired statements. They're filler tracks.

kenlacam said:

A lot of the people complaining about Prince´s lack of inspiration are just projecting their own feelings on Prince´s music. They are not hungry anymore.

rwn said:

That really doesn't make sense.

NDRU said:

That's why he put them in the Crystal Ball.

I think Prince once said to Kurt Loder on MTV, around the year 1999: "The vaults includes the erotic Prince, the central erotic Prince" (Prince said something like that),

and when Kurt Loder asked when will the music ever be released, Prince just "whistled"....

thedance said:

Sounds like the Vault is some sort of Pandora's Box, damn it.... we're not gonna see that stuff released. Ever.

he is/ has been releasing vault material .....its being filtered throughout his albums for the past, id say, 20 years. unfortunately at a snails pace

tired topic...i dont envy prince on his decision on what to do with all that material

i would not be surprised if he burns the vault before he dies

the thing about the Vault stuff is.... I understand him not wanting to dig into it and his feeling that he wants to keep moving forward.

but the man has had a presence on the internet since 1996. and a paid fanclub-type subscription service since 2001.


by all means, keep writing and recording new material for your album releases. but keep the hardcore fans happy and toss off the occasional Vault track through your websites.

we've gotten, what... 5 "vault" tracks in all the time he's been charging us by the month/year/lifetime since 2001, when he knows it's the only reason we sign up for this stuff? "Splash," "Hypnoparadise," "S&M Groove," "Funky Design," and "Mad" are all I can think of...

this is the carrot on a stick that he's going to keep dangling in front of us to keep us shelling out $77 for whatever his latest online venture is. if he doesn't care that much about vault material, then just throw us a bone every once in awhile and give us stuff that we already know is absolute shit ("Fuschia Light", "Big Tall Wall") or stuff whose time has passed that really isn't going to be of value on any future vault compilation release (the "NPG" maxi-single outtakes, alternate takes/versions, his original versions of stuff released by others, etc.).

even if that's not what we're dreaming of (like, say "Rebirth of the Flesh," "Witness 4 The Prosecution," "All My Dreams," "Moonbeam Levels," etc.), it would probably go a long way to making us a little happier and is of little use or value to him.

know what i mean?

errant said:

HOLD ON there!



That one is good.