the rhythm birthed the rock

so sweet p got both and more in store

BigDaddyHQ said:

He definitely listened to J-Davey's music because he was at one of their concerts last year, and he has given them advice on the music industry, as revealed by JDavey themselves during an interview a while back. Esthero performed at 3121 as well, and she is also a fan of his music. Did you see both JDavey and Esthero on stage dancing on the Jay Leno outdoor stage concert behind Prince? I saw both on there when that showed aired recently.
[Edited 5/4/09 8:22am]

BigDaddyHQ said:

The Cher "I believe in Life after Love" sound effect that he's using is proof he's a liar. how many people are using that crutch right now? Almost everyone.

NouveauDance said:

I disagree. If you listen to him, you can see that he pretty much ignores recent trends in music. That's why his stuff sounds stale and unchallenged. He only listens to himself.

He's a musician. He probably hears a lot of music, but you don't have the time or inclination to be as much of a fan of music when you're trying to make your own, & spending hours overdubbing this or that.

He probably likes silence when he's out of the studio.

ernestsewell said:

madonna - another 80'ies superstar - created some cd's during the 00's that sound very fresh and modern - "MUSIC" and "COnfessions on a dancefloor" - like her or not - it's not my point - it seems obvious that she or the people around her clearly listens to new music, and add to that, develops (still) new sounds, new trends.

It's heaven and earth in difference to listen to confessions on a dancefloor and then 3121 or planet earth for that matter. Princes music does not sound new and fresh. It sounds princey - which is very nice and good in its own way - but it does not sound "new" IMO -

so i find it hard to understand that he shouldn't be honest, as some stated. I recon the statement might be true and his sound seems to fit his saying.
[Edited 5/4/09 12:03pm]
[Edited 5/4/09 12:04pm]

benjamino71 said:

Oh I agree. If you measure up Madonna and Prince, album for album post-2000, she outshines him. She took the reigns with electronica and made a fantastic album, Ray of Light, in 1997. What did Prince do in 1997/98? NewPowerSoul and Crystal Ball, plus the GCS and Chaka albums. They were decent to some extent, but in no way measured up to the really good stuff that Madonna put out. Prince put out MORE, but the quality was lacking at some points.

That all could be argued with any artist post-2000 as well, almost. But it's true that Confessions on a Dance Floor makes 3121 look juvenile at best. The main difference is that Madonna's producers have changed, all with a fresh look on things. Prince's producer.....well, he sure knows how to rig a drum machine.

Prince ain't honest about listening to music, because he believes his own celebrity about being brilliant (which he is to a point of course, and declared himself "I Am Music"). He wants to still be that prolific, trend setting, edgy guy. But he's not and why admit defeat?

well said
[Edited 5/4/09 12:29pm]

I think what Prince means is he doesn't purposely listen to new music when he chooses to listen to music.

But you can hear what's going on in music pretty easily without spending a bunch of time listening to the newest albums. I almost never buy popular music anymore, and I don't listen to top 40 radio, and yet I could sing songs by Beyonce, Justin, Britney, Rhianna, just because I can't escape it. It's part of our culture.

And Prince hears it too. The key is he says listens "very rarely." But he's been to the Grammys a few times lately, so he definitely gets exposed.
[Edited 5/4/09 13:25pm]

benjamino71 said:

Madonna no doubt keeps up with (and sets) trends better than Prince. That's her talent.

But I always felt Music was her "Prince" album. Even if that's not quite true, the fact that he even has a clear sound that can be copied sets him apart from her. I can't imagine what someone doing a "Madonna style" album would even sound like. She has a personal style that you could copy. But musical style? None as far as I can hear.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

What part of "rarely" don't you understand?

He didn't say never, he said rarely.

He was using studio technology to change the pitch of his voice for years.

Songs like Insence and Candles and Chocolate Box weren't the first time he did that.

Songs like Housequake, and Erotic City are classic examples.

They may not have called it "autotune" back then, but that's basically what he was doing.

Paris9748430 said:

It's just a conincidence that he sounds like Lil Bow Wow?!

ernestsewell said:

Madonna follows all trends. That's what she does. Can't stand lazy prince simps that will say anything.

Madonna is a culture ho. She is more remembered for her gimmicks then her music, like giving the kooch up to the NBA, and her lil african baby collection.

She is an industry slut. She played out and her kooch stretch a million miles. Her music is stale, and phony and devout of any true feelings or concepts.

If Madonna wasnt such a slut, her music would have been in 99 cent bin.

Alamine said:

Wow, racist and ignorant and illiterate all in the same breath. Good job.

Prince MIGHT be telling the truth on this one.

He prolly doesn't listen to much recent stuff, but with some of the drivel he's put out as of late, it's obivious he has a couple mix tapes from the mid to late '90's lying around.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

That vocal electro-warble should have died when Cher used it. I'll always call it "The Cher Effect". Everyone's using it now. Everyone. Jamie Foxx just sang a song on American Idol using it, and I thought he could sing. Oh, jeez, I just admitted that I watch American Idol. Urp... just threw up a little bit in my mouth...

squirrelgrease said:

If folks would roll back their wreka collection a bit, Roger and Zapp was one of the first bands to really use that vocoder and revolutionize it's use in music. Many 70's R&B bands followed suit after. Even Bon Jovi was using it for "Living On A Prayer". It was nothing new for Cher, Kid Rock or anyone else using it at the turn of the millennium.

ernestsewell said:

The analog vocoder, is an entirely different sound. Roger Troutman, Midnight Starr and Kraftwerk all used it. I've been at concerts where Prince used it. Peter Frampton used a similar device through his guitar. But it wasn't something that became "the thing" for every person to use with pitch problems. It was a novelty.

Cher used a digitized vocal enhancement that we now call autotune, no matter what the Garage Band plug-in of the moment is billed as. It's massively overused piece of binary booolshit, and I aint havin' it.

ernestsewell said:

funny reply!

I do agree though that Madonna is a culture phenomenon of some kind - a slut I do not consider her - and I do not know her recent output - but the cd's mentioned earlier MUSIC and Confessions are real and cool and actually emotional in many ways - and FRESH soundin'!!
You might want to check out "Paradise (Not For Me)" from MUSIC - it is a wonderful and emotional track - IMO.
But this aint no Madonna-fanside, and the comparison to Prince was the idea, and I would still hold that some of Madonnas 00's output is very intelligent and "in your face"-fresh, and defenitely IMO in ways Prince relaeases rarely are. Maybe Madonna being on a label and Prince not gives Prince the freedom to go his way - and Madonna is forced to keep up with the latest trends and producers to still be accepted on her label - what do I know - probably it's more fun to be Prince and do things your own way!

benjamino71 said:

its sad when we are thinking madonna is now making better music than prince, but its probably true

ernestsewell said:

How many times have we said it? Prince needs to work with a producer. Hell, I don't care if we never hear the results, as long as it awakens something new in him. He needs a new musical (rather than religious or sexual) influence in his life, a Wendy rather than a Bria...

fishwillbite said:[quote]It all boils down to that, agreed. He needs a shot of new funk.

I'd like to hear a couple of projects w/ producers. One being a dance album. Similar to what Madonna did with Confessions. She said she ended up loving the remixes of her songs more sometimes (and she very often uses the remix versions in concert like "Erotica", "Like A Prayer", "Express Yourself", "Fever", etc). She decided to just do an album from that angle. And it worked.

I'd also like to hear just a good pop album. Desmond Child should write a couple of songs. Robert Lang produces a few, Rick Rubin produces a few. Katy Perry, although she's not my favorite person, writes good songs. There's all sorts of fresh talent out there.

I think Rave In2 is the closest sound to an "other producer" sound. Songs like "Everyday Is A Winding Road", or "So Far So Pleased" or "Baby Knows" doesn't necessarily have that classic Prince production sound (as Nelson George described it once).

ernestsewell said:[quote]fishwillbite said:[quote]It all boils down to that, agreed. He needs a shot of new funk.

I'd like to hear a couple of projects w/ producers. One being a dance album. Similar to what Madonna did with Confessions. She said she ended up loving the remixes of her songs more sometimes (and she very often uses the remix versions in concert like "Erotica", "Like A Prayer", "Express Yourself", "Fever", etc). She decided to just do an album from that angle. And it worked.

I'd also like to hear just a good pop album. Desmond Child should write a couple of songs. Robert Lang produces a few, Rick Rubin produces a few. , although she's not my favorite person, writes good songs. There's all sorts of fresh talent out there.


I KISSED A MAN AND I LIKED IT!

ernestsewell said:[quote]

fishwillbite said:

This kind of ruins your argument as Rave was universally panned by fans and critics alike (although I kind of liked parts of it).

vinx98 said:

I'm one of the few fans of Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic that dwell here. In fact when I mention it, people run like the plague's after them

I don't get that same reaction from Planet Earth, which I find superior to a couple of this decade's projects... ok, maybe just Musicology & MPLSound

squirrelgrease said:

Well listen, I'm not nit picking, because you and I have great conversations on here, but let me say this.

The vocoder is an effect, true. It's that horrible tube on the mouth, fed through a guitar or a keyboard. (I remember Frampton using it now too, I knew I was forgetting someone). Roger, just before he died, even had it in his mouth in one (or both?) of the "California Love" videos from Dr. Dre and Tupac. I think Snoop used it in "Sensual Seduction", the video, as well. The Cher effect was kind of the same thing, although it was more digitally inclined rather than Cher with a tube in her mouth.

The autotune literally tunes the voice into being pitch perfect. It's a rather unnoticeable little device, which looks like an old electronic piano tuner. The key is set, and the vocals are fed through it. Someone who is flat, or sharp, while singing, can be corrected after the recording is laid down. That's why certain folks sound great on record, but are just horrible in person (singing live). An autotune isn't that Cher effect.

And believe me, as a songwriter who wishes he could sing, I WISH there was an autotune in GarageBand. I'd be using it 24/7 on my voice to lay down demos! There are other little effects I use to kind of disguise a wrong note I sing. But there isn't an auto tune in Garageband. It's a very specific piece of equipment (I'm sure there are digital versions of it in ProTools or something.) The Cher effect IS an effect in GB that I have used (although obviously not to the same chart topping result. LOL)

DreamyPopRoyalty said:

I like Rave overall, but as with any album, there's always a couple of songs that can be deleted and I'd never miss them. I recently stated that I did an edit of "Everyday Is A Winding Road" and took out Larry's annoying chant. The song is SO much better without it. (I have a good mind to redit out a lot of Tony M on D&P and just because.) I love Planet Earth. It's the most cohesive album in years. (I'd nix "Lion of Judah" off that one.)

ernestsewell said:

It seems to run rampant around here and most of the internet as well. I'm not a fan of Madonna, but the statement from Alamine is just pure ignorance.

ernestsewell said:

OK, nobody is saying it hasn't been used before but it's become a substitute for singing and unlike Zapp and Co, it doesn't sound inventive or cool. It's just pure laziness at this point.