If you're honest with yourself, do you really care about Prince's financial obsessions? You have to worry paycheck to paycheck and yet he's wants you to know that he may be out a million here or there?

He began by accusing the record company of stealing from him and, now that the whole musical landscape is changing, he wants us to know that the whole world is ripping him off...

After 15 years I think we might just be watching an obsession. Which is fine, but, dang, can't he keep us out of it!
[Edited 4/24/09 9:58am]

i just tapped this topic on the tavis thread,,,,,

Why dont he just bite the bullet and sign himself over to Madonna's workshop

she can put him in a crib with a good baby sitter
and let him come out play every now and then....

PharkyorLOVE said:

Yeah, singing about slavery is old already. He has all the power and yet acts powerless.

pald1 said:

It's not obsession, but wouldn't you go after what was owed to you? Would you not pursue if you thought someone had stolen from you? The landscape has changed a lot in the past 10 years, even 20 years.

It's not a 15 year ago issue. If he's right about Soundscan not scanning all his records sold, and he gets paid based on Soundscan.....there's a glitch in the system.

First, why wouldn't Soundscan count every item sold? Where are those unaccounted for CD's profits going?

As a hypothetical: If he sold 200,000 of Lotus, and let's say 183,000 were counted (which was roughly the count for the first week of release). That's 17,000 not counted, but definitely sold. And let's say he gets 50% of the price tag. So that's about $6, if you round up a few pennies, based on the $11.98 price tag. 6 x 17,000 = $102,000. based on selling 200,000, he should have made 1.2 million, yet with 183,000 counted by Soundscan, he made only 1,098,000. Big difference. Yes, to someone like Prince, a million isn't a lot in the grand scheme, but still...his music is his job. CD sales are his wages. He worked and sold a service, yet someone doesn't want to pay up. It's like a restaurant holding back on someone's tips.

Let's say Purple Rain sold 12 million (just as a random number). What if he only got paid for 8 million? Who got the profits (which were less than 50% by far) for the other 4 million? Was it WB? Was it a kickback for record stores like Sam Goody, Camelot, and Record Town, and Strawberries? They made a profit already, why do they need more? The album becomes a bartering tool for profit, opposed to a commodity that should be embraced and sold so everyone makes some money.

I'm not playing Prince as a victim, but on a larger scale, this kind of thing has to be addressed. Soundscan becomes the time clock, yet the time clock has a mind of its own. It never tells the whole truth yet you're dependent on it for your livelihood. THAT is the concern; obsession if you will.

It's great that up and coming artists can learn from this. Ani Defranco and other indie artists probably know this, but they also have the leeway to bargain for a good deal in distribution. Or maybe they just have it manufactured and distribute it themselves to record stores (small staff boxing it up, etc, as an example).

If record companies were fair, the landscape would be totally different indeed, and who knows....Prince might still be on the WB label. What if a record company offered such a deal, that going indie made NO sense to the artist? Imagine that.

ernestsewell said:

Of course I would go after what was owed to me. Except that I wouldn't keep relating it to my friends because I would know that, after 15 years, they would only have so much sympathy--especially when they have to get on with their own lives too.

When Prince complains about Soundscan it's like white noise to me. Why should I care about his sales? I know that he should, but why should I?

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Wow prince is a superhero ....what's these new powers he's got then ?

pald1 said:

So because you as an individual don't care about the issue, Prince should forever keep quiet and never speak about it again? Don't you think that's incredibly silly. You may not care about it, but it does mean something especially to many involved in the industry. You may or may not agree with Prince, but its up to the individual to take that knowledge and apply it. I've learned alot from his interviews, and in reading posts in discussions in the non-Prince forum on issues involving other artists. As long as record companies operate the way they do this topic will never die.

YES the hell this man should complain if he's working and NOT getting paid.
i'm sure any one of us would do the very same thing!

pald1 said:

No one is telling you to listen to what he has to say. Not trying to be a prick but if it doesn't matter to you, then why start a thread on it? Just let it go in one ear and out the other.

wonder505 said:

Well, yes, it's my opinion. Would I be facetious if I asked whose else it would be? I'm advocating my position and certainly not yours. You listen to it as much as you like.

I think you agree with me, though, when you say that it's interesting to 'many involved in the industry' but I don't mind repeating that, as someone who isn't, I couldn't give a toss.

PussiDelicious said:

See my earlier post

LondonStyle said:

the ability to grab the joystick in your ass and steer you wherever he wants you to go!

purplecam said:

Im saying... he's not even complaining... he EXplaining why he views the industry the way he does, why (in this particular case) he made certain references in his songs, and in general what informs he decisions to partner or not with the industry for his projects.

He probably views it as a service of providing information not only for the general public but more specifically for his community--artists so that they can be more aware of what they're getting into.

ernestsewell said:

I doubt anybody would argue with his right to go after record companies.

wonder505 said:

He does have valuable points and issues … but for me his biggest mistake is that the focus is always on ‘him’ and ‘him getting his money’.
No one in the world today is going to feel sorry for him in these financial times.

He’s not fighting for songwriters and musicians around the world … it’s all about ‘Mr Number One at the Bank… Prince’.

He might gather a little more support if he stood up for songwriters as a whole.

The reality is Prince is as far from reality as you can probably get …. It’s probably best he keeps interviews to a minimum
[Edited 4/24/09 11:50am]

LondonStyle said:

I heard his guitar could part the sea

pald1 said:

Prince didn't say you should care about it. It's called conversation, something deeper to cover besides who really played bass on "Partyup". As I stated there are other artists out there look for some understanding, and if, today, Prince is talking, they'll listen. If tomorrow Alanis or David Bowie are talking, they'll listen to that too.

He's not looking for sympathy. He was very matter-of-fact in the interview clip when he said, "I don't know what Purple Rain sold, I just know what they tell me." THEY being soundscan or the record company (since PR came out 7 years before Soundscan was introduced). He probably is looking for answers. And the more an artist talks about the wrongs of the industry, the more honest can be instilled.

Back when the Jackson 5 were signed to Motown, Berry Gordy had designed a contract for all these artists on Motown that constantly left them in the red to the record company. He pretty much enslaved them, which made it no surprise to me when Prince wrote slave on his face. If The Supremes had a huge hit and sold hundreds of thousands of records that paid for the studio time, manager, promoter, etc, and they were in the clear, the contracts back then STILL had them owing money back to the record company. A LOT Of money. What does that mean for the artist? Work harder, put out more material, sell more records to pay of THAT debt, yet at the same time it created a NEW debt. They never got ahead. That kind of nonsense still goes on.

Even a group like Nsync who, whether you like them or not, were selling MILLIONS of records during their first two albums, yet they were barely able to make rent on their apartments back home. And remember, these were 17 and 18 year old boys, who had just moved out of their parent's house, and got a little 1 bedroom on their own, yet as much touring and work as they did up until No Strings Attached, they were going bankrupt. The same shit happened with TLC.

It's not because they were blowing all their cash, it's because it wasn't coming in like it should have been. THAT is the point of Prince's conversations about it.

Some might see it as a tantrum, but as a musician and songwriter, I listen to him (and anyone else talking about it). I'd NEVER want to be screwed over like some of these guys have. Prince even addresses these issues in part of "Dolphin".

wonder505 said:

Exactly.
This is why so many artists praised Prince for the bold move he made.
The industry is fucced up and alot of artists aren't speakin up about it cause they scared.
This issue might not apply to me or u pald1 cause we're not affected by it,
but there could be someone listenin to Prince right now who may be tryin to get into the music industry and neva knew of this
and whether it be 50 yrs from now, I hope lots of other artists would speak up on it.
Would u not warn others if u were in a similar situation?
Say, u gettin ripped off @ work...won't u let co-workers kno wat the real deal is?

ernestsewell said:

and soundscan NEVER counted the mom and pop stores

havent read through all this but no artist gets paid based on sales reported by Soundscan. (unless there a "bonus" payments based on SS perhaps) Prince would most likely get paid based on the sales Target itself has recorded. Soundscan would only provide a "sanity" check when Target reports its numbers regarding what it sold, how much was returned etc.

johnny2000 said:

He IS fighting for himself, but he's also educating people, either directly or indirectly. When Mr. Purple Rain became disenfranchised with his record company, that was HUGE to people. It wasn't just Janet leaving A&M for Virgin, at the time, it was ginormous that Prince was struggling to leave WB.

His concern IS his bank. That's not selfish, that's his reality. Do you worry about MY bank? Are you worried that I'm getting all I can? Of course not, nor should you be. You worry about YOUR bank, your family, your support etc, like you should. He can only worry about himself. He can't police every artist out there, nor should he be expected to.

To Alanis, the "Mrs Number One At The Bank" is Alanis.

To Madonna, "Ms Number One At The bank" is Madonna. Get it?

NuPwrSoul said:

And there is nothing wrong with that at all. Just as one may have heard him say this stuff for a number of years, someone who isn't all into Prince but maybe into trying to go into the music industry or something similar may hear these words for the first time and it rings a bell for them and what they need to do with their future.

Just because a message is spoken doesn't mean it's for everyone and there's nothing wrong with that. If you get something out of it, then take what works for you and what doesn't work, don't do anything with it.

johnny2000 said:

He's uses himself as an example to show what could happen or is happening any musician.
[Edited 4/24/09 11:52am]

pald1 said:

if ur not trying 2 get in2 the business then this type of in4mation wouldn't b pertinent 2 u, but if u were in the business, one should pay attention 2 these type of issues. so prince knows he has fans that r artists in every field imaginable, it's about looking after one's creations in the end.

ernestsewell said:

NuPwrSoul said:

"He probably views it as a service of providing information not only for the general public" Ha-ha...kinda like AIDS in Africa right? What a stunningly inane comment.

JayJai said:

Ok, you've worried about Prince and musician's rights in the industry. Now can you get back to your bus-driver job.

L4OATheOriginal said:

Exactly. Especially if the mom and pop stores don't have a Soundscan setup in their store, which is an expensive option. So yeah, that does count against him, yet it's the mom and pop places that might have a better price on something, or where you can find an older album, still new. Why shouldn't an old copy of Controversy, still in the shrink wrap from 1981 be counted in a sale at Smith's Hometown Records On Main Street USA? Just because no one listens to it anymore (meaning it's not being promoted on radio, etc), should that make the sale invalid?

If SS was honest, they'd get their "system" (read: Matrix) into every store that sells new records.
[Edited 4/24/09 11:54am]

I'll say 2 words bernie madoff the ponzy shceme guy who ripped off the investors and u can go from there!

rbrpm said:

That's SO more than 2 words. lol