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IstenSzek said: to be honest i'd rather hear him talk about his finances any day of the week
instead of him going off on some religious rant about what is right and what is wrong. I don't know - he's always sung about not caring about charts or money, and now it seems that's all he talks about. S&M Groove: "the charts don't mean a damn when you're free, double-platinum, they don't believe it to be" |
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Funny how Prince didn't have any complaints about the accuracy of Soundscan's data when he was allowed to count "Musicology" givewayCDs bundled with concert tickets as actual sales in 2004.
Now, the only reason he's questioning the system is because Keith Urban defied early figures as reported on Hits Daily Double and outsold "Lotusflow3r" in the first week.  [Edited 4/25/09 8:27am] | |
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stanleylieber said: PEJ said: then if he's as bad as the large corporations why do you invest in him? same reason you do (and same reason you invest in other corporations), i'm sure. i like prince's music and i don't mind paying him for it. but you'll never see me going into business with him. I wasn't complaining about Prince or the other corporations  To Sir, with Love | |
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Copycat said: Funny how Prince didn't have any complaints about the accuracy of Soundscan's data when he was allowed to count "Musicology" givewayCDs bundled with concert tickets as actual sales in 2004.
Now, the only reason he's questioning the system is because Keith Urban defied early figures as reported on Hits Daily Double and outsold "Lotusflow3r" in the first week. Prince did pretty well considering he was only at Target! And yes, he wasn't complaining when Musicology counted toward albums "sold" (they have since changed the rules). I purchased only one copy, but I own 5 copies of that CD! |
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ernestsewell said: pald1 said: If you're honest with yourself, do you really care about Prince's financial obsessions? You have to worry paycheck to paycheck and yet he's wants you to know that he may be out a million here or there?
...snipped for space... It's not obsession, but wouldn't you go after what was owed to you? Would you not pursue if you thought someone had stolen from you? The landscape has changed a lot in the past 10 years, even 20 years. It's not a 15 year ago issue. If he's right about Soundscan not scanning all his records sold, and he gets paid based on Soundscan.....there's a glitch in the system. First, why wouldn't Soundscan count every item sold? Where are those unaccounted for CD's profits going? As a hypothetical: If he sold 200,000 of Lotus, and let's say 183,000 were counted (which was roughly the count for the first week of release). That's 17,000 not counted, but definitely sold. And let's say he gets 50% of the price tag. So that's about $6, if you round up a few pennies, based on the $11.98 price tag. 6 x 17,000 = $102,000. based on selling 200,000, he should have made 1.2 million, yet with 183,000 counted by Soundscan, he made only 1,098,000. Big difference. Yes, to someone like Prince, a million isn't a lot in the grand scheme, but still...his music is his job. CD sales are his wages. He worked and sold a service, yet someone doesn't want to pay up. It's like a restaurant holding back on someone's tips. Let's say Purple Rain sold 12 million (just as a random number). What if he only got paid for 8 million? Who got the profits (which were less than 50% by far) for the other 4 million? Was it WB? Was it a kickback for record stores like Sam Goody, Camelot, and Record Town, and Strawberries? They made a profit already, why do they need more? The album becomes a bartering tool for profit, opposed to a commodity that should be embraced and sold so everyone makes some money. I'm not playing Prince as a victim, but on a larger scale, this kind of thing has to be addressed. Soundscan becomes the time clock, yet the time clock has a mind of its own. It never tells the whole truth yet you're dependent on it for your livelihood. THAT is the concern; obsession if you will. It's great that up and coming artists can learn from this. Ani Defranco and other indie artists probably know this, but they also have the leeway to bargain for a good deal in distribution. Or maybe they just have it manufactured and distribute it themselves to record stores (small staff boxing it up, etc, as an example). If record companies were fair, the landscape would be totally different indeed, and who knows....Prince might still be on the WB label. What if a record company offered such a deal, that going indie made NO sense to the artist? Imagine that. Okay, then he should take some real, viable action to resolve the issue. But he doesn't because he doesn't have a leg to stand on. He's the kind of guy that would rather piss and moan about it publicly. But honestly, back to the orignal point, do any of us actually care about it that much? Does it affect us? This is a conversation best handled through lawyers, if he really wants to get something done. Instead, it's handled in magazine and TV interviews. I mean, I could sit around and talk about how much working for my employer sucks sometimes too, but nobody really gives a damn except people who are in the same field or work for the same company. Whatever happened to it being about the music? He hardly even talks about the actual music. He hardly ever has. He's given more interviews/answers about the music industry in the last 15 years than he's given about the process of creating, recording, producing or performing music in his 30+ career. Frankly the man is rich beyond imagination and is internationally famous for his talent and when it comes down to it, I frankly don't give a shit what his beef is with his former employer. Yet he keeps ragging on that system year after year, when he's been OUT of it for 13 of them. I mean, seriously, he needs to get over it. Or at least take it up with some people who 1) care, or better yet, 2) can do something about it. | |
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pald1 said: If you're honest with yourself, do you really care about Prince's financial obsessions? You have to worry paycheck to paycheck and yet he's wants you to know that he may be out a million here or there?
He began by accusing the record company of stealing from him and, now that the whole musical landscape is changing, he wants us to know that the whole world is ripping him off... After 15 years I think we might just be watching an obsession. Which is fine, but, dang, can't he keep us out of it! [Edited 4/24/09 9:58am] I'm suprised by some of the comments from long time Prince fans...knowing that he has consistently "raged against the machine" and yet you are displeased? As a new fan, this "rage" is one of the attributes that has drawn me to him. From what I see, It's not really about the $$ its also about the Dream and colonized minds. We've just been subjected to eight years of unbridled greed a loss of major proportions related to personal rights and destruction of our eco-systems. We're all paying more for everything...food, water, entertainment -- everything! Why shouldn't he speak up? And why as Prince fans are you offended? It's disturbing because "silence" is the reason our world is in the state it is. | |
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Se7en said: Here's a thought: remaster the damn album and we'll buy it again.  [Edited 4/25/09 12:20pm] it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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He should be lucky that he still has fans after that slave bit. All you others say Hell Yea!!  | |
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jill4life said: pald1 said: If you're honest with yourself, do you really care about Prince's financial obsessions? You have to worry paycheck to paycheck and yet he's wants you to know that he may be out a million here or there?
He began by accusing the record company of stealing from him and, now that the whole musical landscape is changing, he wants us to know that the whole world is ripping him off... After 15 years I think we might just be watching an obsession. Which is fine, but, dang, can't he keep us out of it! [Edited 4/24/09 9:58am] I'm suprised by some of the comments from long time Prince fans...knowing that he has consistently "raged against the machine" and yet you are displeased? As a new fan, this "rage" is one of the attributes that has drawn me to him. From what I see, It's not really about the $$ its also about the Dream and colonized minds. We've just been subjected to eight years of unbridled greed a loss of major proportions related to personal rights and destruction of our eco-systems. We're all paying more for everything...food, water, entertainment -- everything! Why shouldn't he speak up? And why as Prince fans are you offended? It's disturbing because "silence" is the reason our world is in the state it is. it's not that the gist of what prince is saying ("the companies rip off the artists") is wrong, it's just that he is approaching this in the same jumbled, veiled-in-riddles manner that he does every other aspect of his career. even people who are sympathetic to his cause have no way of helping him because he doesn't talk to people like they are real human beings. he expects everyone to accept what he says at face value and to follow his instructions without question. also, don't make eye contact with him. and, have you heard the good news about jehovah? i think it's good he has tried to get the word out to younger artists to watch their backs, financially. i just don't think he's sending a very clear message. i think part of the problem is that he seems to view mega stardom as a viable, acceptable phenomenon. the truth of the matter is that young musicians don't need to become mega famous in order to make a good living and to retain their creative and financial freedom. but: "baby, i'm a star." there is a basic tension between prince's stated moral views and his perpetuation of the star machinery. meanwhile, acts like NIN are showing everyone what you can do without a label. granted, prince is doing that as well, to some extent, but he still can't seem to tear himself completely away from the major label tete. prince is an old media act. he's gotten some accolades from new media for his internet attempts, but the structure of his whole approach is based upon and relies upon the pre- internet conception of fame and success. it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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stanleylieber said: jill4life said: I'm suprised by some of the comments from long time Prince fans...knowing that he has consistently "raged against the machine" and yet you are displeased? As a new fan, this "rage" is one of the attributes that has drawn me to him. From what I see, It's not really about the $$ its also about the Dream and colonized minds. We've just been subjected to eight years of unbridled greed a loss of major proportions related to personal rights and destruction of our eco-systems. We're all paying more for everything...food, water, entertainment -- everything! Why shouldn't he speak up? And why as Prince fans are you offended? It's disturbing because "silence" is the reason our world is in the state it is. it's not that the gist of what prince is saying ("the companies rip off the artists") is wrong, it's just that he is approaching this in the same jumbled, veiled-in-riddles manner that he does every other aspect of his career. even people who are sympathetic to his cause have no way of helping him because he doesn't talk to people like they are real human beings. he expects everyone to accept what he says at face value and to follow his instructions without question. also, don't make eye contact with him. and, have you heard the good news about jehovah? i think it's good he has tried to get the word out to younger artists to watch their backs, financially. i just don't think he's sending a very clear message. i think part of the problem is that he seems to view mega stardom as a viable, acceptable phenomenon. the truth of the matter is that young musicians don't need to become mega famous in order to make a good living and to retain their creative and financial freedom. but: "baby, i'm a star." there is a basic tension between prince's stated moral views and his perpetuation of the star machinery. meanwhile, acts like NIN are showing everyone what you can do without a label. granted, prince is doing that as well, to some extent, but he still can't seem to tear himself completely away from the major label tete. prince is an old media act. he's gotten some accolades from new media for his internet attempts, but the structure of his whole approach is based upon and relies upon the pre- internet conception of fame and success. Prince has "earned" his place in music and should be respected for that. New artists just no comparison. Further, if they are comfortable with "making a living" good for them and that's as it should be. We shouldn't all agree to lock-step, too dangerous for everyone, like I said we've seen that film the last 8. Perhaps he's challenging himself to find a "deal" he can be comfortable with. | |
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stanleylieber said: jill4life said: I'm suprised by some of the comments from long time Prince fans...knowing that he has consistently "raged against the machine" and yet you are displeased? As a new fan, this "rage" is one of the attributes that has drawn me to him. From what I see, It's not really about the $$ its also about the Dream and colonized minds. We've just been subjected to eight years of unbridled greed a loss of major proportions related to personal rights and destruction of our eco-systems. We're all paying more for everything...food, water, entertainment -- everything! Why shouldn't he speak up? And why as Prince fans are you offended? It's disturbing because "silence" is the reason our world is in the state it is. it's not that the gist of what prince is saying ("the companies rip off the artists") is wrong, it's just that he is approaching this in the same jumbled, veiled-in-riddles manner that he does every other aspect of his career. even people who are sympathetic to his cause have no way of helping him because he doesn't talk to people like they are real human beings. he expects everyone to accept what he says at face value and to follow his instructions without question. also, don't make eye contact with him. and, have you heard the good news about jehovah? i think it's good he has tried to get the word out to younger artists to watch their backs, financially. i just don't think he's sending a very clear message. i think part of the problem is that he seems to view mega stardom as a viable, acceptable phenomenon. the truth of the matter is that young musicians don't need to become mega famous in order to make a good living and to retain their creative and financial freedom. but: "baby, i'm a star." there is a basic tension between prince's stated moral views and his perpetuation of the star machinery. meanwhile, acts like NIN are showing everyone what you can do without a label. granted, prince is doing that as well, to some extent, but he still can't seem to tear himself completely away from the major label tete. prince is an old media act. he's gotten some accolades from new media for his internet attempts, but the structure of his whole approach is based upon and relies upon the pre- internet conception of fame and success. some people r always throwing NIN up as like a token on what a website should b, how 2 relate 2 fans etc..how do u think NIN got that way tho? do u think that trent reznor or other groups that have fansites, treating their fans that people boast about would b that way without prince paving the way 4 them 2 do so? man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
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Yes. • Did you first think Prince was gay? •
Wendy: He’s a girl, for sure, but he’s not gay. He looked at me like a gay woman would look at another woman. Lisa: Totally. He’s like a fancy lesbian. | |
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prince was one of the first major acts to sell music downloads but he's far from the first to do so and he's not even the most influential in that space. people keep mentioning NIN because reznor's ongoing experiment is entirely relevant. reznor has no label and yet he's managing to do what prince has only been claiming to do. I think reznor is settng a better example. that doesn't mean prince is shit; it just means prince's record is not beyond criticism simply because he's a musical genius and had a website in 1996.
there comes a time when you just have to walk away from the negative and objectionable aspects ofthe industry. props to prince for continuing to talk about it but some artists are actually living the dream. it doesn't add to the discussion when any mention of people prince could learn from is met with fingers in the ears and LA LA LA I CANT HEAR YOU it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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i'd love nothing more than a highly functional site from prince where i could easily purchase unencumbered downloads and/or physical items. if prince was scoring highly in this area i'd be citing him instead. it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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matthewgrant said: LondonStyle said: Wow prince is a superhero ....what's these new powers he's got then ?  I heard his guitar could part the sea   This comment right here made me lol with a snort... Just thought I'd share that. Shake....shake, shake, shake. |
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jill4life said: pald1 said: If you're honest with yourself, do you really care about Prince's financial obsessions? You have to worry paycheck to paycheck and yet he's wants you to know that he may be out a million here or there?
He began by accusing the record company of stealing from him and, now that the whole musical landscape is changing, he wants us to know that the whole world is ripping him off... After 15 years I think we might just be watching an obsession. Which is fine, but, dang, can't he keep us out of it! [Edited 4/24/09 9:58am] I'm suprised by some of the comments from long time Prince fans...knowing that he has consistently "raged against the machine" and yet you are displeased? As a new fan, this "rage" is one of the attributes that has drawn me to him. From what I see, It's not really about the $$ its also about the Dream and colonized minds. We've just been subjected to eight years of unbridled greed a loss of major proportions related to personal rights and destruction of our eco-systems. We're all paying more for everything...food, water, entertainment -- everything! Why shouldn't he speak up? And why as Prince fans are you offended? It's disturbing because "silence" is the reason our world is in the state it is. I'd like to know your take on "the Dream and colonized minds" because I have no idea what Prince is talking about. It's muddled quackery at best. While your points about unbridled greed, rubbished eco-systems, and high food and water costs are valid, I have real trouble connecting them to Prince and his beef with sounsdcan. And finally, I don't think anyone's saying they're 'offended.' In my case, I think Prince's public moaning about being ripped off is irrlevant, boring and a something I'll never be able to relate to. | |
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pald1 said: If you're honest with yourself, do you really care about Prince's financial obsessions?
I care about the state of the music industry and people's ability to survive there with a minimum of exploitation. You have to worry paycheck to paycheck and yet he's wants you to know that he may be out a million here or there?
The issue is, unless that money is MAKING more money, it doesn't matter how many millions someone was given. What matters is the ownership of capital (which guarantees that money keeps coming in). I can list for you many an artist that was given lots of money yesterday but who today are broke. He began by accusing the record company of stealing from him and, now that the whole musical landscape is changing, he wants us to know that the whole world is ripping him off...
No, just those who take without giving back. After 15 years I think we might just be watching an obsession. Which is fine, but, dang, can't he keep us out of it!
If it bores you, tune out. Go listen to Miley Cyrus or Lady Gaga or someone else who doesn't pay attention to who runs what in the music business. Change it one more time.. | |
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lezama said: pald1 said: If you're honest with yourself, do you really care about Prince's financial obsessions?
I care about the state of the music industry and people's ability to survive there with a minimum of exploitation. No, just those who take without giving back. After 15 years I think we might just be watching an obsession. Which is fine, but, dang, can't he keep us out of it!
If it bores you, tune out. Go listen to Miley Cyrus or Lady Gaga or someone else who doesn't pay attention to who runs what in the music business. I love the way you isolate some of my points and then write under them as if to respond--and then don't! Weird. Well, maybe you do on the last one which is that hoary old cliche "if it bores you, tune out." This statement is impractical and illogical at best and morally bankrupt at worst. It seeks to end discussion and nullify a person's crticism all at once. Oh, and don't tell what to do, either... | |
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pald1 said: jill4life said: I'm suprised by some of the comments from long time Prince fans...knowing that he has consistently "raged against the machine" and yet you are displeased? As a new fan, this "rage" is one of the attributes that has drawn me to him. From what I see, It's not really about the $$ its also about the Dream and colonized minds. We've just been subjected to eight years of unbridled greed a loss of major proportions related to personal rights and destruction of our eco-systems. We're all paying more for everything...food, water, entertainment -- everything! Why shouldn't he speak up? And why as Prince fans are you offended? It's disturbing because "silence" is the reason our world is in the state it is. I'd like to know your take on "the Dream and colonized minds" because I have no idea what Prince is talking about. It's muddled quackery at best. While your points about unbridled greed, rubbished eco-systems, and high food and water costs are valid, I have real trouble connecting them to Prince and his beef with sounsdcan. And finally, I don't think anyone's saying they're 'offended.' In my case, I think Prince's public moaning about being ripped off is irrlevant, boring and a something I'll never be able to relate to. Briefly, Colonized Mind and Dreamer discuss the dis-integration of body from mind and spirit. In essence you are what you eat. As regards Prince's contentions with Soundscan (WB/Industry) the greed exhibited by these entities (historically) results in you paying more for CDs. Prince's latest coup should be lauded by the fans 3 CDs for $12. If you know not your history you're doomed to repeat. | |
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pald1 said: lezama said: If it bores you, tune out. Go listen to Miley Cyrus or Lady Gaga or someone else who doesn't pay attention to who runs what in the music business. I love the way you isolate some of my points and then write under them as if to respond--and then don't! Weird. Well, maybe you do on the last one which is that hoary old cliche "if it bores you, tune out." This statement is impractical and illogical at best and morally bankrupt at worst. It seeks to end discussion and nullify a person's crticism all at once. Oh, and don't tell what to do, either... No, the fact is, you bitching on this website isn't gonna change anything, so why are you wasting your time? Change it one more time.. | |
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jill4life said: pald1 said: I'd like to know your take on "the Dream and colonized minds" because I have no idea what Prince is talking about. It's muddled quackery at best. While your points about unbridled greed, rubbished eco-systems, and high food and water costs are valid, I have real trouble connecting them to Prince and his beef with sounsdcan. And finally, I don't think anyone's saying they're 'offended.' In my case, I think Prince's public moaning about being ripped off is irrlevant, boring and a something I'll never be able to relate to. Briefly, Colonized Mind and Dreamer discuss the dis-integration of body from mind and spirit. In essence you are what you eat. As regards Prince's contentions with Soundscan (WB/Industry) the greed exhibited by these entities (historically) results in you paying more for CDs. Prince's latest coup should be lauded by the fans 3 CDs for $12. If you know not your history you're doomed to repeat. "The dis-integration of body from mind and spirit." Chortle. I guess if we seperate from our bodies too much and the eco-system goes down and we pay too much for food, then we'll all be doomed to repeat the Soundscan cycle that makes us pay more for Prince CD's. Ah, now I get it! | |
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lezama said: pald1 said: I love the way you isolate some of my points and then write under them as if to respond--and then don't! Weird. Well, maybe you do on the last one which is that hoary old cliche "if it bores you, tune out." This statement is impractical and illogical at best and morally bankrupt at worst. It seeks to end discussion and nullify a person's crticism all at once. Oh, and don't tell what to do, either... No, the fact is, you bitching on this website isn't gonna change anything, so why are you wasting your time? Dude, u still 'aint adressed any of my points. YOU'RE wasting my time. | |
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pald1 said: lezama said: No, the fact is, you bitching on this website isn't gonna change anything, so why are you wasting your time? Dude, u still 'aint adressed any of my points. YOU'RE wasting my time. You made a point someplace here?  Change it one more time.. | |
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lezama said: pald1 said: Dude, u still 'aint adressed any of my points. YOU'RE wasting my time. You made a point someplace here? Still haven't!  | |
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lezama said: pald1 said: I love the way you isolate some of my points and then write under them as if to respond--and then don't! Weird. Well, maybe you do on the last one which is that hoary old cliche "if it bores you, tune out." This statement is impractical and illogical at best and morally bankrupt at worst. It seeks to end discussion and nullify a person's crticism all at once. Oh, and don't tell what to do, either... No, the fact is, you bitching on this website isn't gonna change anything, so why are you wasting your time? same reason you are, my brother it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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pald1 said: jill4life said: Briefly, Colonized Mind and Dreamer discuss the dis-integration of body from mind and spirit. In essence you are what you eat. As regards Prince's contentions with Soundscan (WB/Industry) the greed exhibited by these entities (historically) results in you paying more for CDs. Prince's latest coup should be lauded by the fans 3 CDs for $12. If you know not your history you're doomed to repeat. "The dis-integration of body from mind and spirit." Chortle. I guess if we seperate from our bodies too much and the eco-system goes down and we pay too much for food, then we'll all be doomed to repeat the Soundscan cycle that makes us pay more for Prince CD's. Ah, now I get it! Your response is not a surprise, unfortunately. Remember, you asked me to share MY interpretation. Its your response that makes you a hater. | |
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jill4life said: pald1 said: "The dis-integration of body from mind and spirit." Chortle. I guess if we seperate from our bodies too much and the eco-system goes down and we pay too much for food, then we'll all be doomed to repeat the Soundscan cycle that makes us pay more for Prince CD's. Ah, now I get it! Your response is not a surprise, unfortunately. Remember, you asked me to share MY interpretation. Its your response that makes you a hater. Don't lie...you know it was a surprise...and besides, even though I asked for your interpretation, I would be doing all sane people a disservice if I didn't ridicule it. | |
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pald1 said: jill4life said: Your response is not a surprise, unfortunately. Remember, you asked me to share MY interpretation. Its your response that makes you a hater. Don't lie...you know it was a surprise...and besides, even though I asked for your interpretation, I would be doing all sane people a disservice if I didn't ridicule it. | |
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 it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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stanleylieber said: i'd love nothing more than a highly functional site from prince where i could easily purchase unencumbered downloads and/or physical items. if prince was scoring highly in this area i'd be citing him instead.
----- Why don't you give it some fucking time. The site has only been up a month and already bitching. The fact of the matter is that P was the first major artist to come out a openly talk about the crap that goes on in the music industry and the first to get on the internet. Trent would not be doing anything without P doing it first and you guys will not even give him credit for that because you don't like the site or the content. P is still doing his thing 15 years later.Do you really think Trent will have a site at all 15 years from now? He is on the internet because never sold a lot of his shitty music when he was with a label and lost most of his money to a crocked manager because he was wacked out on drugs. But this is the person P should follow.  | |
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