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PrintableHe could at least do something noble like, say, reimbursing fans who signed up and paid $25 for NPGMC lifetime memberships that he cancelled without notice  | |
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Copycat said: He could at least do something noble like, say, reimbursing fans who signed up and paid $25 for NPGMC lifetime memberships that he cancelled without notice
RIGHT?! | |
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ernestsewell said: L4OATheOriginal said: and soundscan NEVER counted the mom and pop stores
Exactly. Especially if the mom and pop stores don't have a Soundscan setup in their store, which is an expensive option. So yeah, that does count against him, yet it's the mom and pop places that might have a better price on something, or where you can find an older album, still new. Why shouldn't an old copy of Controversy, still in the shrink wrap from 1981 be counted in a sale at Smith's Hometown Records On Main Street USA? Just because no one listens to it anymore (meaning it's not being promoted on radio, etc), should that make the sale invalid? If SS was honest, they'd get their "system" (read: Matrix) into every store that sells new records. [Edited 4/24/09 11:54am] My question is..do you people really care about all this? I know you're interested but, in the whole scheme of things, Prince's financial obsession is not that big of a deal to you is it? I mean, it must comes pretty low in the list of reasons to be upset about life, surely? | |
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ernestsewell said: johnny2000 said: He’s not fighting for songwriters and musicians around the world … it’s all about ‘Mr Number One at the Bank… Prince’.
He IS fighting for himself, but he's also educating people, either directly or indirectly. When Mr. Purple Rain became disenfranchised with his record company, that was HUGE to people. His concern IS his bank. That's not selfish, that's his reality. Do you worry about MY bank? Are you worried that I'm getting all I can? Of course not, nor should you be. You worry about YOUR bank, your family, your support etc, like you should. He can only worry about himself. He can't police every artist out there, nor should he be expected to. The mid 1990’s … writing ‘slave’ on your face, performing with a scarf over your head, doing interviews but refusing to speak, changing your name to a symbol to try a wriggle out of a contract. I’m not sure this would count as 'music industry education'. ….I would say it wreaked his career for 10 years. He became a joke in the general publics eyes. Of course he is ‘fighting for himself’ …. All I’m saying is if you want to gather any kind of support from the general public …. You might want to approach it differently | |
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johnny2000 said: Of course he is ‘fighting for himself’ …. All I’m saying is if you want to gather any kind of support from the general public …. You might want to approach it differently
like finding new revenue streams (fans)? 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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johnny2000 said: ernestsewell said: He IS fighting for himself, but he's also educating people, either directly or indirectly. When Mr. Purple Rain became disenfranchised with his record company, that was HUGE to people. His concern IS his bank. That's not selfish, that's his reality. Do you worry about MY bank? Are you worried that I'm getting all I can? Of course not, nor should you be. You worry about YOUR bank, your family, your support etc, like you should. He can only worry about himself. He can't police every artist out there, nor should he be expected to. The mid 1990’s … writing ‘slave’ on your face, performing with a scarf over your head, doing interviews but refusing to speak, changing your name to a symbol to try a wriggle out of a contract. I’m not sure this would count as 'music industry education'. ….I would say it wreaked his career for 10 years. He became a joke in the general publics eyes. Of course he is ‘fighting for himself’ …. All I’m saying is if you want to gather any kind of support from the general public …. You might want to approach it differently Stunningly good points. | |
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pald1 said: My question is..do you people really care about all this? I know you're interested but, in the whole scheme of things, Prince's financial obsession is not that big of a deal to you is it? I mean, it must comes pretty low in the list of reasons to be upset about life, surely? As an artist, I care about the situation as a whole. No one said I was upset about it. | |
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johnny2000 said: I’m not sure this would count as 'music industry education'.
I never said the slave/scarf/etc stuff was education. I said it was a bold and huge move on his part. People sat up and took notice. Did it work against him? Maybe in some respects, but he's still here, isn't he? It's what he talked about AFTER the slave years that has become the education, at times. | |
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I absolutely have no problem with what Prince is trying to achieve, however, I have, at times, found his methods of achieving it annoying, hypocritical and borish.
As much as I support Prince securing what is his, I'd LOVE to not hear it in his music anymore. JMHO. I'm firmly planted in denial |
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Nothinbutjoy said: I absolutely have no problem with what Prince is trying to achieve, however, I have, at times, found his methods of achieving it annoying, hypocritical and borish.
As much as I support Prince securing what is his, I'd LOVE to not hear it in his music anymore. JMHO. If he has to I'm much prefer something like Count the Days. That was the most poetic expression of his fight with WB but veiled enough to apply to general life situations. I used to think of singing that to my ex who abused me. Every day with your ass is another day wasted I swear it's a day too long.... 
 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Nothinbutjoy said: I absolutely have no problem with what Prince is trying to achieve, however, I have, at times, found his methods of achieving it annoying, hypocritical and borish.
As much as I support Prince securing what is his, I'd LOVE to not hear it in his music anymore. JMHO. If he has to I'm much prefer something like Count the Days. That was the most poetic expression of his fight with WB but veiled enough to apply to general life situations. I used to think of singing that to my ex who abused me. Every day with your ass is another day wasted I swear it's a day too long....
EXACTLY!!  I'm firmly planted in denial |
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pald1 said: ernestsewell said: It's not obsession, but wouldn't you go after what was owed to you? Would you not pursue if you thought someone had stolen from you? The landscape has changed a lot in the past 10 years, even 20 years. It's not a 15 year ago issue. If he's right about Soundscan not scanning all his records sold, and he gets paid based on Soundscan.....there's a glitch in the system. First, why wouldn't Soundscan count every item sold? Where are those unaccounted for CD's profits going? As a hypothetical: If he sold 200,000 of Lotus, and let's say 183,000 were counted (which was roughly the count for the first week of release). That's 17,000 not counted, but definitely sold. And let's say he gets 50% of the price tag. So that's about $6, if you round up a few pennies, based on the $11.98 price tag. 6 x 17,000 = $102,000. based on selling 200,000, he should have made 1.2 million, yet with 183,000 counted by Soundscan, he made only 1,098,000. Big difference. Yes, to someone like Prince, a million isn't a lot in the grand scheme, but still...his music is his job. CD sales are his wages. He worked and sold a service, yet someone doesn't want to pay up. It's like a restaurant holding back on someone's tips. Let's say Purple Rain sold 12 million (just as a random number). What if he only got paid for 8 million? Who got the profits (which were less than 50% by far) for the other 4 million? Was it WB? Was it a kickback for record stores like Sam Goody, Camelot, and Record Town, and Strawberries? They made a profit already, why do they need more? The album becomes a bartering tool for profit, opposed to a commodity that should be embraced and sold so everyone makes some money. I'm not playing Prince as a victim, but on a larger scale, this kind of thing has to be addressed. Soundscan becomes the time clock, yet the time clock has a mind of its own. It never tells the whole truth yet you're dependent on it for your livelihood. THAT is the concern; obsession if you will. It's great that up and coming artists can learn from this. Ani Defranco and other indie artists probably know this, but they also have the leeway to bargain for a good deal in distribution. Or maybe they just have it manufactured and distribute it themselves to record stores (small staff boxing it up, etc, as an example). If record companies were fair, the landscape would be totally different indeed, and who knows....Prince might still be on the WB label. What if a record company offered such a deal, that going indie made NO sense to the artist? Imagine that. Of course I would go after what was owed to me. Except that I wouldn't keep relating it to my friends because I would know that, after 15 years, they would only have so much sympathy--especially when they have to get on with their own lives too. When Prince complains about Soundscan it's like white noise to me. Why should I care about his sales? I know that he should, but why should I? ---- like white noise to To you it is white noise but it is valuble info to up and coming artist. So just tune out when he talks about. [Edited 4/24/09 12:50pm] | |
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Nothinbutjoy said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: If he has to I'm much prefer something like Count the Days. That was the most poetic expression of his fight with WB but veiled enough to apply to general life situations. I used to think of singing that to my ex who abused me. Every day with your ass is another day wasted I swear it's a day too long....
EXACTLY!! upload, download children of god and all that. WTF?!  2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Nothinbutjoy said: EXACTLY!! upload, download children of god and all that. WTF?!  That didn't bother me at all. I gotta admit, I was glad it wasn't children of Jehova. Made me a bit 
BUT the song would have been PERFECT without the record deal verse. I'm firmly planted in denial |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Nothinbutjoy said: I absolutely have no problem with what Prince is trying to achieve, however, I have, at times, found his methods of achieving it annoying, hypocritical and borish.
As much as I support Prince securing what is his, I'd LOVE to not hear it in his music anymore. JMHO. If he has to I'm much prefer something like Count the Days. That was the most poetic expression of his fight with WB but veiled enough to apply to general life situations. I used to think of singing that to my ex who abused me. Every day with your ass is another day wasted I swear it's a day too long....
Good point | |
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u know what I DO have a bone to pick with mr prince though
how you out there hootin and hollerin about unfair bidness practices and where was it that i read the folks from the revolution were not getting paid royalties off the sales of songs that y'all collaborated on together get ur house in order first before you start calling out other folks! | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: If he has to I'm much prefer something like Count the Days. That was the most poetic expression of his fight with WB but veiled enough to apply to general life situations. I used to think of singing that to my ex who abused me. Every day with your ass is another day wasted I swear it's a day too long.... Your statement, in another subject, really backs up what I've always said about this time period of the mid 90's. I always said it was one of Prince's more prolific, musically ingenious, productive and creative periods, from about 1993 until 1996. Why? Because he was pissed the fucc off. His angst against WB is what fueled his music. When Jon Bream wrote in the liner notes to The Gold Experience to cue up the scream in "Endorphinmachine" and the guitar solo in "Gold", and you can hear him searching...he was right. (I also love that those two songs pretty much bookend the album, so this "plight" is made known before and after.) Stuff like Exodus, Come, Gold, Chaos, etc.....ALL spawned in the depths of the fight w/ WB, but all certifiably brilliant material overall (there's always a stinker here or there, so we'll ignore those handful of tracks). It's when Prince got "free" that his music suffered again. The same theory holds when he was in a relationship and having issues with it, like with Susannah. The songs produced during that time from about 1984-1987 were some of his best; people still refer to that period as a great time. | |
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regardless of whether you think he's right or wrong about this, you have to admit, that as a person who is obviously passionate about most of the things he does pertaining to music, it's quite obvious that this is more about principle at this point than about money. My take on it is that he got ganked, he learned the game, and is trying to reinvent it so that future musicians do not go down the same road. The big question is, why let people who have nothing to do with making the music reap the bulk or the rewards? As a musician or any other creative type, I would think that allowing someone to have domain over your creation, make money off of it after you are long out of the loop, etc, etc., is worth fighting against for as long as you have to. When I came to grips with this, I understood completey why he used to write "slave" on his face.
With the economy the way it is, gov't, etc., I have even come to the conclusion that we are all "slaves" in some fashion, and unless you take the bull by the horns and figure out a way to have your own without being beholden to some other entity, you will always be a slave in some form or fashion. So is it worth fighting against a machine that would have you under their thumb, their boot in your face, so to speak? I say, hell's yes. | |
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ernestsewell said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: If he has to I'm much prefer something like Count the Days. That was the most poetic expression of his fight with WB but veiled enough to apply to general life situations. I used to think of singing that to my ex who abused me. Every day with your ass is another day wasted I swear it's a day too long.... Your statement, in another subject, really backs up what I've always said about this time period of the mid 90's. I always said it was one of Prince's more prolific, musically ingenious, productive and creative periods, from about 1993 until 1996. Why? Because he was pissed the fucc off. His angst against WB is what fueled his music. When Jon Bream wrote in the liner notes to The Gold Experience to cue up the scream in "Endorphinmachine" and the guitar solo in "Gold", and you can hear him searching...he was right. (I also love that those two songs pretty much bookend the album, so this "plight" is made known before and after.) Stuff like Exodus, Come, Gold, Chaos, etc.....ALL spawned in the depths of the fight w/ WB, but all certifiably brilliant material overall (there's always a stinker here or there, so we'll ignore those handful of tracks). It's when Prince got "free" that his music suffered again. The same theory holds when he was in a relationship and having issues with it, like with Susannah. The songs produced during that time from about 1984-1987 were some of his best; people still refer to that period as a great time. He makes the best music when he has issues. That's true of most artists though. As a writer, some of the things that have received the most praise are things that are horrifyingly painful. But searching through the pain is part of what brings forth beautiful art. Prince is disengenous these days. the happiness is contrived and the religious angle only lends to the false happiness. You can feel the issues under the surface. It would be nice for them to burst forth again. Like a Volcano, only released once it explodes.... . [Edited 4/24/09 13:10pm] 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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An earlier post nailed it: Prince should fight for artists' rights everywhere, not just his own. |
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I dont have problems with Prince caring about 'his' money or 'his' ownership, but it gets annoying that he brings that subject up so much in PUBLIC (in his song lyrics, writing 'slave' on his cheek, during interviews). TOO much IMO. | |
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pald1 said: ernestsewell said: Exactly. Especially if the mom and pop stores don't have a Soundscan setup in their store, which is an expensive option. So yeah, that does count against him, yet it's the mom and pop places that might have a better price on something, or where you can find an older album, still new. Why shouldn't an old copy of Controversy, still in the shrink wrap from 1981 be counted in a sale at Smith's Hometown Records On Main Street USA? Just because no one listens to it anymore (meaning it's not being promoted on radio, etc), should that make the sale invalid? If SS was honest, they'd get their "system" (read: Matrix) into every store that sells new records. [Edited 4/24/09 11:54am] My question is..do you people really care about all this? I know you're interested but, in the whole scheme of things, Prince's financial obsession is not that big of a deal to you is it? I mean, it must comes pretty low in the list of reasons to be upset about life, surely? when it comes 2 his personal finances ..no but as a artist, OH HELL YEAH and 2 some degree it matters 2 u otherwise u wouldn't have started this thread man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
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L4OATheOriginal said: pald1 said: My question is..do you people really care about all this? I know you're interested but, in the whole scheme of things, Prince's financial obsession is not that big of a deal to you is it? I mean, it must comes pretty low in the list of reasons to be upset about life, surely? when it comes 2 his personal finances ..no but as a artist, OH HELL YEAH and 2 some degree it matters 2 u otherwise u wouldn't have started this thread I think you're just restating what I've already said. | |
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My question is..do you people really care about all this? I know you're interested but, in the whole scheme of things, Prince's financial obsession is not that big of a deal to you is it? I mean, it must comes pretty low in the list of reasons to be upset about life, surely?
It goes both ways. On the one hand I know: it is just his job, being an artist, so understandable he cares about the money. But on the other hand, there is the artistic aspect also. I mean: on an album like The Rainbow Children he is almost portraying himself as 'some devine, spiritual creature' (nonsense, of course), while, during interviews, he keeps 'whining' about how the record companies have treated him, how he has missed all that millions and all those millions... It appears like sort of a unnecessary victim-role that starts wearing thin. He is a walking contradiction, I know, but please try to make up your mind a bit...before people start to call you an opportunist or hypocrite. Next to that, it has definitely hurt his appeal among the mainstream. When you read the reactions of many (younger) people on sites like Youtube, you can sense the irritation over him pulling back video's , not even his one, but also those of people who are using his music for their own 'homemade' video's. I know, the flipside of it is: its HIS material..sure... It might be a principal issue for him, but the way he handles this issue seems to work out mostly negative for him: on a commercial level, and also on an artistic level (stop writing songs about 'haters' Prince, and try to write some good lyrics instead) [Edited 4/24/09 13:35pm] | |
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Riverpoet31 said: My question is..do you people really care about all this? I know you're interested but, in the whole scheme of things, Prince's financial obsession is not that big of a deal to you is it? I mean, it must comes pretty low in the list of reasons to be upset about life, surely?
It goes both ways. On the one hand I know: it is just his job, being an artist, so understandable he cares about the money. But on the other hand, there is the artistic aspect also. I mean: on an album like The Rainbow Children he is almost portraying himself as 'some devine, spiritual creature' (nonsense, of course), while, during interviews, he keeps 'whining' about how the record companies have treated him, how he has missed all that millions and all those millions... It appears like sort of a unnecessary victim-role that starts wearing thin. He is a walking contradiction, I know, but please try to make up your mind a bit...before people start to call you an opportunist or hypocrite. Next to that, it has definitely hurt his appeal among the mainstream. When you read the reactions of many (younger) people on sites like Youtube, you can sense the irritation over him pulling back video's , not even his one, but also those of people who are using his music for their own 'homemade' video's. I know, the flipside of it is: its HIS material..sure... It might be a principal issue for him, but the way he handles this issue seems to work out mostly negative for him: on a commercial level, and also on an artistic level (stop writing songs about 'haters' Prince, and try to write some good lyrics instead) [Edited 4/24/09 13:35pm] ..and yet, to raise some of these points is to be labelled a 'hater.' It's prefectly valid to say that Prince has damaged his career, especially among younger people, because of these stances he's taken. However, fanbots are blind to them because they agree with Prince when he says he's arguing for "artist rights." I get Prince's right to fight for as much money as he should get...just as long as we all know that this is what we're talking about. To say that he's on a crusade to reshape the industry for younger artists, and the rest of it, is just being too kind. | |
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pald1 said: L4OATheOriginal said: when it comes 2 his personal finances ..no but as a artist, OH HELL YEAH and 2 some degree it matters 2 u otherwise u wouldn't have started this thread I think you're just restating what I've already said. no cause ur referring 2 being sick and tired of hearing him talk about it which i'm not by any stretch cause if someone wasn't around when his war with the record industry as a whole began, nothing wrong with still educating those that aren't aware of it. if u had someone u know that wanted 2 get in the industry, would u b able 2 tell them of the dangers of it and how they will swindle the person u know? man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
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L4OATheOriginal said: pald1 said: I think you're just restating what I've already said. no cause ur referring 2 being sick and tired of hearing him talk about it which i'm not by any stretch cause if someone wasn't around when his war with the record industry as a whole began, nothing wrong with still educating those that aren't aware of it. if u had someone u know that wanted 2 get in the industry, would u b able 2 tell them of the dangers of it and how they will swindle the person u know? Yeah, I know, next time I meet someone who wants to get into the record industry I'll be sure to tell them of all the dangers.... ...now, back to real-life... | |
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pald1 said: JayJai said: Exactly. This is why so many artists praised Prince for the bold move he made. The industry is fucced up and alot of artists aren't speakin up about it cause they scared. This issue might not apply to me or u pald1 cause we're not affected by it, but there could be someone listenin to Prince right now who may be tryin to get into the music industry and neva knew of this and whether it be 50 yrs from now, I hope lots of other artists would speak up on it. Would u not warn others if u were in a similar situation? Say, u gettin ripped off @ work...won't u let co-workers kno wat the real deal is? Ok, you've worried about Prince and musician's rights in the industry. Now can you get back to your bus-driver job. hahaha...damn pussyhole...I ain't no bus driver but I will roll mi bike ova yuh bloodclaat head...seen? I swear the words "HATER" is wayyy over-rated...smh | |
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JayJai said: pald1 said: Ok, you've worried about Prince and musician's rights in the industry. Now can you get back to your bus-driver job. hahaha...damn pussyhole...I ain't no bus driver but I will roll mi bike ova yuh bloodclaat head...seen? Could that have been a more predictable (not to say unlettered) response? | |
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pald1 said: JayJai said: hahaha...damn pussyhole...I ain't no bus driver but I will roll mi bike ova yuh bloodclaat head...seen? Could that have been a more predictable (not to say unlettered) response? Actually...no..I knew u'd expect it. So...you're assuming I'm a bus driver because...? I swear the words "HATER" is wayyy over-rated...smh | |
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