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Do you think P felt genuinely hurt by Warner Brothers? And do you think he still feels hurt by 'them'? | |
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Hurt? No
Ripped off? Yes. | |
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No and No I knew from the start that I loved you with all my heart. | |
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don't kno  I swear the words "HATER" is wayyy over-rated...smh | |
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I think early on in his fight he did feel hurt. Remember, this all started back when "Let's Dance" wasn't released, and he reworked it into "Let's Work" on Controversy. It built up from there over the years. His big hurt, I think, came around Graffiti Bridge. If it weren't for Batman, his career would have taken a HUGE down turn. It put him back on top. "Nothing Compares 2 U" the next year being #1 didn't hurt.
It's probably safe to say that over the years, WB promised Prince a lot of stuff, and often times they delivered. But their level of commitment also depended on Prince's level of enthusiasm and quality of material. He was probably more frustrated at the lack of output they allowed him. That's why we have things like Jill Jones, The Family, Madhouse, Vanity 6, Apollonia 6, etc. We know it was his alternate route to putting out music. That frustration can become hurtful and eventually anger over time. Prince was full on angry by 1993 when his name changed to  for the next 7 years. But then again, as a sidenote, some of Prince's best material since 7 years BEFORE that was coming out. It took Prince being angry to put out great stuff like Come, The Gold Experience, Exodus, etc.
He seemed resolved to the past during the Oprah interview (or was it Chris Rock? on VH1) where he said he just wanted to go hug all the guys at WB. He noted that he wouldn't be who, or where, he is now without having gone through all of the misery and upset he did while at WB. He also later acknowledged with Mel B. that record companies work and they work hard at what they do in promotion. He understands their side of it and how they can get a record on the radio. Of course, the flip side of that he is now understands that "not caring about the charts or that radio is dead" that without a record company promoting him out the ass, he will NOT have a huge hit again, he won't have a multi-platinum record again. He's not going to sell 5 million copies of Lotus Flower. He'll do good to break a million in the next 3 years. So yes...Prince did feel hurt from WB. Those people create a family atmosphere, because they know an artist is a money machine, and the artist knows it's a money machine for themselves as well. Everybody pockets cash. RiDONKulous amounts of cash. It's truly an agreement to work together. It's like sex....it's going good as long as both are looking out for the other, but when someone starts to get tired or pull out too early....the moment is gone. But is he hurt now? No. Not at all. [Edited 4/17/09 10:53am] | |
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Graycap23 said: Hurt? No
Ripped off? Yes. So, feeling ripped off didn't give rise to feelings of hurt? | |
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ernestsewell said: He seemed resolved to the past during the Oprah interview (or was it Chris Rock? on VH1) where he said he just wanted to go hug all the guys at WB. He noted that he wouldn't be who, or where, he is now without having gone through all of the misery and upset he did while at WB.
Nice response, ernestsewell, thank you. It seems to me that he probably went through a series (or process) of emotional stages, eventually leading to more balanced and adaptive perspectives. Despite this rationality, I find it interesting that his current lyrics (in Lotusflow3r) still seem to suggest an underlying dislike of Warners et al., perhaps indicative of the unresolved emotional hurt? I would find that understandable. | |
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Anji said: Graycap23 said: Hurt? No
Ripped off? Yes. So, feeling ripped off didn't give rise to feelings of hurt? No. Not in my opinion. There was no emotional attachment 2 WB. [Edited 4/17/09 11:45am] | |
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I think if anything, they made him angry.  | |
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ernestsewell said: I think early on in his fight he did feel hurt. Remember, this all started back when "Let's Dance" wasn't released, and he reworked it into "Let's Work" on Controversy. It built up from there over the years. His big hurt, I think, came around Graffiti Bridge. If it weren't for Batman, his career would have taken a HUGE down turn. It put him back on top. "Nothing Compares 2 U" the next year being #1 didn't hurt.
It's probably safe to say that over the years, WB promised Prince a lot of stuff, and often times they delivered. But their level of commitment also depended on Prince's level of enthusiasm and quality of material. He was probably more frustrated at the lack of output they allowed him. That's why we have things like Jill Jones, The Family, Madhouse, Vanity 6, Apollonia 6, etc. We know it was his alternate route to putting out music. That frustration can become hurtful and eventually anger over time. Prince was full on angry by 1993 when his name changed to for the next 7 years. But then again, as a sidenote, some of Prince's best material since 7 years BEFORE that was coming out. It took Prince being angry to put out great stuff like Come, The Gold Experience, Exodus, etc.
He seemed resolved to the past during the Oprah interview (or was it Chris Rock? on VH1) where he said he just wanted to go hug all the guys at WB. He noted that he wouldn't be who, or where, he is now without having gone through all of the misery and upset he did while at WB. He also later acknowledged with Mel B. that record companies work and they work hard at what they do in promotion. He understands their side of it and how they can get a record on the radio. Of course, the flip side of that he is now understands that "not caring about the charts or that radio is dead" that without a record company promoting him out the ass, he will NOT have a huge hit again, he won't have a multi-platinum record again. He's not going to sell 5 million copies of Lotus Flower. He'll do good to break a million in the next 3 years. So yes...Prince did feel hurt from WB. Those people create a family atmosphere, because they know an artist is a money machine, and the artist knows it's a money machine for themselves as well. Everybody pockets cash. RiDONKulous amounts of cash. It's truly an agreement to work together. It's like sex....it's going good as long as both are looking out for the other, but when someone starts to get tired or pull out too early....the moment is gone. But is he hurt now? No. Not at all. I've found myself reading a bunch of your replies over the past few weeks. You know so much and with everything above, I know where you're coming from and keep agreeing with it. Nice posts 
Prince eventually did find resolve to forgive everything that happened and he's happy now. He seems at piece with himself. A lot of people say that his best music came from the days where he wrote "SLAVE" on his cheek and he was full of anger. I wouldn't go as far to say that I'd want him to be angry all the time just so I can get good music. Not everything he wrote was good in that time, but I can't deny that a lot of it were highlights of his 90's catalogue. I could go on in length about this, but I won't 
To answer the question, at the time, yes, he was. But not so much anymore because he understands how everything went down. had 2 run away... pride was 2 strong. It started raining, baby, the birds were gone | |
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DreamyPopRoyalty said: ernestsewell said: I think early on in his fight he did feel hurt. Remember, this all started back when "Let's Dance" wasn't released, and he reworked it into "Let's Work" on Controversy. It built up from there over the years. His big hurt, I think, came around Graffiti Bridge. If it weren't for Batman, his career would have taken a HUGE down turn. It put him back on top. "Nothing Compares 2 U" the next year being #1 didn't hurt.
It's probably safe to say that over the years, WB promised Prince a lot of stuff, and often times they delivered. But their level of commitment also depended on Prince's level of enthusiasm and quality of material. He was probably more frustrated at the lack of output they allowed him. That's why we have things like Jill Jones, The Family, Madhouse, Vanity 6, Apollonia 6, etc. We know it was his alternate route to putting out music. That frustration can become hurtful and eventually anger over time. Prince was full on angry by 1993 when his name changed to for the next 7 years. But then again, as a sidenote, some of Prince's best material since 7 years BEFORE that was coming out. It took Prince being angry to put out great stuff like Come, The Gold Experience, Exodus, etc.
He seemed resolved to the past during the Oprah interview (or was it Chris Rock? on VH1) where he said he just wanted to go hug all the guys at WB. He noted that he wouldn't be who, or where, he is now without having gone through all of the misery and upset he did while at WB. He also later acknowledged with Mel B. that record companies work and they work hard at what they do in promotion. He understands their side of it and how they can get a record on the radio. Of course, the flip side of that he is now understands that "not caring about the charts or that radio is dead" that without a record company promoting him out the ass, he will NOT have a huge hit again, he won't have a multi-platinum record again. He's not going to sell 5 million copies of Lotus Flower. He'll do good to break a million in the next 3 years. So yes...Prince did feel hurt from WB. Those people create a family atmosphere, because they know an artist is a money machine, and the artist knows it's a money machine for themselves as well. Everybody pockets cash. RiDONKulous amounts of cash. It's truly an agreement to work together. It's like sex....it's going good as long as both are looking out for the other, but when someone starts to get tired or pull out too early....the moment is gone. But is he hurt now? No. Not at all. I've found myself reading a bunch of your replies over the past few weeks. You know so much and with everything above, I know where you're coming from and keep agreeing with it. Nice posts
Prince eventually did find resolve to forgive everything that happened and he's happy now. He seems at piece with himself. A lot of people say that his best music came from the days where he wrote "SLAVE" on his cheek and he was full of anger. I wouldn't go as far to say that I'd want him to be angry all the time just so I can get good music. Not everything he wrote was good in that time, but I can't deny that a lot of it were highlights of his 90's catalogue. I could go on in length about this, but I won't
To answer the question, at the time, yes, he was. But not so much anymore because he understands how everything went down. Who cares! I'm hurt the US government takes my money too....but that doesnt mean I fight against, sue everyone and bitch and moan about it the rest of my life. Prince needs to move on and do whats best. Make music, keep his mouth shut and perform. LOL!.... DO IT NOW! GMAN | |
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I don't know. Probably did in the beginning but now, I wouldn't think he'd be but one never knows. It's probably best for me not to know. I'm not a fan of "old Prince". I'm not a fan of "new Prince". I'm just a fan of Prince. Simple as that | |
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Yes | |
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Ripped off, hurt, used, etc | |
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i think his ego was hurt. he must be possessive. he's still trying to keep what's his even from being on the internet. when he alone becomes 50 steps ahead of technology, he'll finally solve all his problems; with the exception of relationships. | |
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DreamyPopRoyalty said: I've found myself reading a bunch of your replies over the past few weeks. You know so much and with everything above, I know where you're coming from and keep agreeing with it. Nice posts
Prince eventually did find resolve to forgive everything that happened and he's happy now. He seems at piece with himself. A lot of people say that his best music came from the days where he wrote "SLAVE" on his cheek and he was full of anger. I wouldn't go as far to say that I'd want him to be angry all the time just so I can get good music. Not everything he wrote was good in that time, but I can't deny that a lot of it were highlights of his 90's catalogue. I could go on in length about this, but I won't
To answer the question, at the time, yes, he was. But not so much anymore because he understands how everything went down. Thanks for the kudos. I don't know how much I know about Prince, but after following that lil fucker since 1979, I figure I know as much as any other long time fan. I'm just a dude who loves music to the point of it being a fault. One thing I do TRY to do is stay logical about it. Above genius and everything else, Prince is a human being. He poops, he pees, he trims his toe nails, and he has eye boogers. All that said, he operates as a human being too, rich or poor, eccentric or logical. I've been around "the business" in the past, and picked up a few things here and there. I don't know anywhere near a lot, but I learned enough to use deduction, logic, etc on my two cents. But in the end, it's just my opinion. One thing I never saw Prince as was the end all and be all of music. I'm glad his fans get pissed off. I think it helps keep his ego in check... even just a teeny tiny bit. | |
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What did he have to feel hurt about? The guy signed contract after contract for 15 years...got his vanity projects backed to the hilt...and made a crapload of money. He could have pulled the plug at any time - and didn't.
Boo friggin' hoo. We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. | |
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Yes.
I think that he felt betrayed by WB when they put him on the R&B division of WB records. Many old and new fans forget this and this was the critical point which led to the "slave" on his face deal. The reason why this was done was to limit Prince's ability to make good on his contract that required him to sell 2 million albums to collect his money.IMHO I think that payola was spread around to make Diamonds and Pearls & "Symbol hit albums with multiple top ten hits to get Prince to resign with with WB after that deal Prince only had 2 top ten hits since. WB fired all of the pro artist management that was left at WB .This not only hurt Prince but other major artists still on the label. WB has not been the same after they fired Medina and guys like him. |
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speculating on how Prince may or may not feel is ok I guess. Hell, I think it's perfectly o.k. to speculate on his sexuality for that matter.
But the confidence in which fans proclaim how he may feel or his motivations behind something is hilarious. How do any of you fools know how he feels?
Whether Prince felt hurt by Warners is not the issue to me. He was a full grown adult, with lawyers enough that just the threat of a lawsuit keeps the .org from posting parody pictures of him, which the org is protected by law. With this arsenal of lawyers, who could look over his contract, Prince still signed, then protested a 108 million dollar contract in which the vast majority of his vanity projects were permitted to be created and released. The idea that Warners stifled his creativity is hilarious. His most creative and inspirational albums where written with Warner Bros. backing. He always had the creative environment he needed. And the argument that Warners stifled his output is funny too. Prince released albums at a regular year-to-year clip under Warners. Not ever 2 years or so that he does now. Prince was a grownup. He signed a contract. For him to say contracts are wrong simply because he changes his minds is rather silly. What if one of his employess who signs his non-disclosure 'gag' contracts suddenly changes their minds? Whatever Prince's emotional state was when he signed then tried to weasel out of his contract, his behavior was rather unprofessional. I would have had much more sympathy for him if wasn't a 30 year old, rich, and possessing an arsenal of lawyers to boot. | |
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No.
There's a reason why it's called the music business. After such a long and prolific career as his as an creative force and a businessman, he clearly knows the line of demarcation between art and commerce, otherwise he wouldn't have survived this long. Emotions have very little to do with contract negotiations and label disputes. It's a game of survival of the fittest that purely comes down to $$$$. | |
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Imago said: speculating on how Prince may or may not feel is ok I guess. Hell, I think it's perfectly o.k. to speculate on his sexuality for that matter.
But the confidence in which fans proclaim how he may feel or his motivations behind something is hilarious. How do any of you fools know how he feels?
Whether Prince felt hurt by Warners is not the issue to me. He was a full grown adult, with lawyers enough that just the threat of a lawsuit keeps the .org from posting parody pictures of him, which the org is protected by law. With this arsenal of lawyers, who could look over his contract, Prince still signed, then protested a 108 million dollar contract in which the vast majority of his vanity projects were permitted to be created and released. The idea that Warners stifled his creativity is hilarious. His most creative and inspirational albums where written with Warner Bros. backing. He always had the creative environment he needed. And the argument that Warners stifled his output is funny too. Prince released albums at a regular year-to-year clip under Warners. Not ever 2 years or so that he does now. Prince was a grownup. He signed a contract. For him to say contracts are wrong simply because he changes his minds is rather silly. What if one of his employess who signs his non-disclosure 'gag' contracts suddenly changes their minds? Whatever Prince's emotional state was when he signed then tried to weasel out of his contract, his behavior was rather unprofessional. I would have had much more sympathy for him if wasn't a 30 year old, rich, and possessing an arsenal of lawyers to boot. Preach. | |
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Prince insisted on getting a mega contract (he HAD to been seen to outdo Madonna and Janet), then, once he signed it, he whined like a bitch to try and get out of it.
Was Prince Hurt? His ego was when he could get it all his way. . | |
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SquirrelMeat said: Prince insisted on getting a mega contract (he HAD to been seen to outdo Madonna and Janet), then, once he signed it, he whined like a bitch to try and get out of it.
Was Prince Hurt? His ego was when he could get it all his way. Didn't Prince say that the terms of the contract were not a "partnership" a term coined by WB, it was more like a 90/10 divide? | |
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pplrain said: SquirrelMeat said: Prince insisted on getting a mega contract (he HAD to been seen to outdo Madonna and Janet), then, once he signed it, he whined like a bitch to try and get out of it.
Was Prince Hurt? His ego was when he could get it all his way. Didn't Prince say that the terms of the contract were not a "partnership" a term coined by WB, it was more like a 90/10 divide? The partnership was that Prince was given a board position. As far as the deal is concerned, Prince wanted to claim the magical "$100m" contract, on the back of Madonna recently anounced "$60m" and Janets "$80m". Prince got the headline grabbing deal. But in in real terms, he would only get the money if he sold the CD's. His lack of willingness to promote led to the CD sales failing short and the contract not paying out as much as he wanted. Hence, he started throwing his toys out of his pram. . | |
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SquirrelMeat said: pplrain said: Didn't Prince say that the terms of the contract were not a "partnership" a term coined by WB, it was more like a 90/10 divide? The partnership was that Prince was given a board position. As far as the deal is concerned, Prince wanted to claim the magical "$100m" contract, on the back of Madonna recently anounced "$60m" and Janets "$80m". Prince got the headline grabbing deal. But in in real terms, he would only get the money if he sold the CD's. His lack of willingness to promote led to the CD sales failing short and the contract not paying out as much as he wanted. Hence, he started throwing his toys out of his pram. Wasn't it WB's job to "promote" the CDs through radio, TV and media? | |
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pplrain said: SquirrelMeat said: The partnership was that Prince was given a board position. As far as the deal is concerned, Prince wanted to claim the magical "$100m" contract, on the back of Madonna recently anounced "$60m" and Janets "$80m". Prince got the headline grabbing deal. But in in real terms, he would only get the money if he sold the CD's. His lack of willingness to promote led to the CD sales failing short and the contract not paying out as much as he wanted. Hence, he started throwing his toys out of his pram. Wasn't it WB's job to "promote" the CDs through radio, TV and media? Yep, and they always spent a lot on money promoting him. Every album got as much press and billboard space as other major artists. But if the artist doesn't play ball, the promotion falls flat on it face. Couple that with tracks like Sexy MF, and the radio and TV stations run a mile. Prince's biggest problem was not that he was being a pain for the sake of it, it was because he had already moved on to the next project before the Warner machine had warmed up promotion of the previous one. Prince wanted the money from the corporate machine, but he didn't want to play by the rules of the contract once he had signed it. Was it Warner? Ask all the other labels who Prince fell out with after 1996. The irony is, Prince's current output would suit the corporate model far better. Prince always said WB couldn't keep up. Now that Prince's output has slowed down, WB and P could be a match made in heaven. . | |
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You forget what I posted earlier.
Benny Medina and others who were pro-Prince at WB were fired and replaced by numbers crunchers. Also people who had axes to grind against Prince were put into management positions at WB and they put Prince who was one of the top acts on the label in the R&B division. This is huge people and cannot be understated because now Prince is being seperated from the Pop/Rock divison where it's acts are getting more $$$$ for promotion etc,ect.Also Prince is starting to have R&B flavored songs as lead singles from these albums. NOW Prince's reaction to this was not the way to handle this but don't just think this was a one way deal. Both sides were wrong but WB is still suffering from moves that they made during this time. |
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Sexy M.F. was not designed to be a radio single. It was released to clubs like Gett Off the year before. The huge response to both songs led to them being released and placed on the albums themselves.
Squirrel I agree with your point about Prince and his quickness to start on a new project.However after WB the other labels were also fucked up just as much as Prince. BMI folded and the promotion of Emancipation folded along with the label.The Arista deal ,if you believe the people that I know in Nashville, messed up Clive Davis who was in the middle of being kicked out by LA Reid. IMHO if Clive would have been in a stronger position within Arista when Rave was released the project could have been a major success. Forget the bullshit that people say about the record on here.There were good songs on that record. |
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PDogz said: I think if anything, they made him angry.
Perhaps, anger is just an emotion to cover what's hurting, which brings me back to the original question... | |
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GMAN2000 said: Who cares! I'm hurt the US government takes my money too....but that doesnt mean I fight against, sue everyone and bitch and moan about it the rest of my life. Prince needs to move on and do whats best. Make music, keep his mouth shut and perform. LOL!....
DO IT NOW! GMAN Sounds like you could do with a monkey; not an artist. Then again, perhaps monkeys can be artists too. | |
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