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Is Prince a Victim of "Creative Attrition"! O.K., so I made that term-up, but here's what I mean...
We can all pretty much agree that after W & L and Sheila, Prince gradually stopped working with musicians who truly challenged and stretched him musically, and from a song writing standpoint. (Even back in the day, when he would work on songs alone, doing all the parts, he was still creatively inspired by them. As a result, I feel like his work over the past 10 years has a "sameness" to it, despite the "style of the song. For example: Prince writes a chord progression or lyrics for a new song and puts 'em down on tape quickly (with little or no filter, so it's already limited in structure and content). No time spent choosing exactly the right phrase for the lyrics (Just rhyme "hips" with "lips", or throw in some "street slang" like "baby got game" or "frontin'. Lay down a quick, sloppy drum track or recycled Linn loop. Record a lead vocal track, with no outside feedback on phrasing or emotion, so it's whatever he feels like doing. Some sped-up vocals here, falsetto there. Add a bass track, which is always funky but rarely notable. Then he probably lays down a chunky rhythm guitar track (little funky phrases, similar to ones he has done a million times and can do in his sleep). Then he throws in some spoken "echo" vocals during the verses (repeating the words he just sang). Add some scratching or other little noises, and four or five vocals on the chorus and it's off to the next track. O.K. so I know that's a huge over simplification, but it seems to me that the longer Prince has chosen to work in a creative vacuum, the more similar all the individual parts start to sound, and the more "cookie cutter" his work feels to me. It's like he's developed a musical shorthand that keeps much of his recent music from going to a higher place, because he doesn't change who he writes with, where he records or who he has turning the knobs in the control room. Anyway, would love some thoughts on the effect on Prince of not having musicians or producers to really raise his game, especially the last decade. Appreciate it! | |
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Utter pish. |
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SPOOKYGAS said: Utter pish.
You mean, most of the last 6 albums? Then, yes I agree... | |
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jpav said: O.K., so I made that term-up, but here's what I mean...
We can all pretty much agree that after W & L and Sheila, Prince gradually stopped working with musicians who truly challenged and stretched him musically, and from a song writing standpoint. (Even back in the day, when he would work on songs alone, doing all the parts, he was still creatively inspired by them. As a result, I feel like his work over the past 10 years has a "sameness" to it, despite the "style of the song. For example: Prince writes a chord progression or lyrics for a new song and puts 'em down on tape quickly (with little or no filter, so it's already limited in structure and content). No time spent choosing exactly the right phrase for the lyrics (Just rhyme "hips" with "lips", or throw in some "street slang" like "baby got game" or "frontin'. Lay down a quick, sloppy drum track or recycled Linn loop. Record a lead vocal track, with no outside feedback on phrasing or emotion, so it's whatever he feels like doing. Some sped-up vocals here, falsetto there. Add a bass track, which is always funky but rarely notable. Then he probably lays down a chunky rhythm guitar track (little funky phrases, similar to ones he has done a million times and can do in his sleep). Then he throws in some spoken "echo" vocals during the verses (repeating the words he just sang). Add some scratching or other little noises, and four or five vocals on the chorus and it's off to the next track. O.K. so I know that's a huge over simplification, but it seems to me that the longer Prince has chosen to work in a creative vacuum, the more similar all the individual parts start to sound, and the more "cookie cutter" his work feels to me. It's like he's developed a musical shorthand that keeps much of his recent music from going to a higher place, because he doesn't change who he writes with, where he records or who he has turning the knobs in the control room. Anyway, would love some thoughts on the effect on Prince of not having musicians or producers to really raise his game, especially the last decade. Appreciate it! back away from the keyboard and noone gets hurt, see? cheers! ~svn seven | |
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Compare collabs between P/Wendy/Lisa & those between Prince/Kirky J. Who he surrounds himself has a lot to do with his musical expression IMO. 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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Creative atrophy maybe. If prince.org were to be made idiot proof, someone would just invent a better idiot. | |
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People please chill and enjoy your style of music made by Prince. Haven't you disected him enough. Prince's Sarah | |
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jpav said: O.K., so I made that term-up, but here's what I mean...
We can all pretty much agree that after W & L and Sheila, Prince gradually stopped working with musicians who truly challenged and stretched him musically,.... ...snip. If you're talking about anything from NewPowerSoul on to now...I TOTALLY AGREE!!!!! [Edited 4/16/09 17:31pm] | |
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jpav said: O.K., so I made that term-up, but here's what I mean...
We can all pretty much agree that after W & L and Sheila, Prince gradually stopped working with musicians who truly challenged and stretched him musically, and from a song writing standpoint. (Even back in the day, when he would work on songs alone, doing all the parts, he was still creatively inspired by them. As a result, I feel like his work over the past 10 years has a "sameness" to it, despite the "style of the song. For example: Prince writes a chord progression or lyrics for a new song and puts 'em down on tape quickly (with little or no filter, so it's already limited in structure and content). No time spent choosing exactly the right phrase for the lyrics (Just rhyme "hips" with "lips", or throw in some "street slang" like "baby got game" or "frontin'. Lay down a quick, sloppy drum track or recycled Linn loop. Record a lead vocal track, with no outside feedback on phrasing or emotion, so it's whatever he feels like doing. Some sped-up vocals here, falsetto there. Add a bass track, which is always funky but rarely notable. Then he probably lays down a chunky rhythm guitar track (little funky phrases, similar to ones he has done a million times and can do in his sleep). Then he throws in some spoken "echo" vocals during the verses (repeating the words he just sang). Add some scratching or other little noises, and four or five vocals on the chorus and it's off to the next track. O.K. so I know that's a huge over simplification, but it seems to me that the longer Prince has chosen to work in a creative vacuum, the more similar all the individual parts start to sound, and the more "cookie cutter" his work feels to me. It's like he's developed a musical shorthand that keeps much of his recent music from going to a higher place, because he doesn't change who he writes with, where he records or who he has turning the knobs in the control room. Anyway, would love some thoughts on the effect on Prince of not having musicians or producers to really raise his game, especially the last decade. Appreciate it! I'm not sure how accurate your little scenario is, but on the whole I agree. I think Prince's music of the last 10 years or so is much more about craft than it is inspiration. He's been doing this so long that he can put together a song whenever he wants. Whether there's actually a song there is another matter. That's not to say that he doesn't have moments where the muse is genuinely there, but yes, more often than not, I think he's sticking pretty close to established formula these days. An outside producer or some real collaborators would probably go a long way to breaking him out of this safe zone, but I think after 30 years of running the show, we don't have a hope in hell in seeing that change. Prince's whole thing is built on being self-contained. To look elsewhere would undermine that and I don't think it's very likely that he'll take that step. | |
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jpav said: O.K., so I made that term-up, but here's what I mean...
We can all pretty much agree that after W & L and Sheila, Prince gradually stopped working with musicians who truly challenged and stretched him musically, and from a song writing standpoint. (Even back in the day, when he would work on songs alone, doing all the parts, he was still creatively inspired by them. As a result, I feel like his work over the past 10 years has a "sameness" to it, despite the "style of the song. For example: Prince writes a chord progression or lyrics for a new song and puts 'em down on tape quickly (with little or no filter, so it's already limited in structure and content). No time spent choosing exactly the right phrase for the lyrics (Just rhyme "hips" with "lips", or throw in some "street slang" like "baby got game" or "frontin'. Lay down a quick, sloppy drum track or recycled Linn loop. Record a lead vocal track, with no outside feedback on phrasing or emotion, so it's whatever he feels like doing. Some sped-up vocals here, falsetto there. Add a bass track, which is always funky but rarely notable. Then he probably lays down a chunky rhythm guitar track (little funky phrases, similar to ones he has done a million times and can do in his sleep). Then he throws in some spoken "echo" vocals during the verses (repeating the words he just sang). Add some scratching or other little noises, and four or five vocals on the chorus and it's off to the next track. O.K. so I know that's a huge over simplification, but it seems to me that the longer Prince has chosen to work in a creative vacuum, the more similar all the individual parts start to sound, and the more "cookie cutter" his work feels to me. It's like he's developed a musical shorthand that keeps much of his recent music from going to a higher place, because he doesn't change who he writes with, where he records or who he has turning the knobs in the control room. Anyway, would love some thoughts on the effect on Prince of not having musicians or producers to really raise his game, especially the last decade. Appreciate it! Sheila E. never was a challenge 4 Prince as a songwriter, only as a drummer. The 3 artists that actually had a very strong influence on Prince were Wendy & Lisa (pop-rock) and Eric Leeds (jazz). Now i think that Renato Neto or John Blackwell or Greg Boyer or Rhonda Smith r much better, much sophisticated musicians that any musician Prince had in the 80's except maybe Eric Leeds. The main problem is that Prince quit listening 2 new music after the late 80's. He was totally unaware of the electronica revolution that happened in Europe in the 90's, 4 xemple, nor did he ever try 2 listen 2 world music or ambiant and try 2 make soething out of it. His musical world is limited 2 all the derivative of american r&b, from jazz 2 rock 2 hip-hop & pop. That might be his real weakness, that unability 2 open himself 2 music that came outside the USA, and that hasn't much 2 do with the musicians he plays with. | |
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Aka Prince please play some abstrace wannabe ethereal shit that Wendy n Lisa are doing. | |
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xlr8r said: Aka Prince please play some abstrace wannabe ethereal shit that Wendy n Lisa are doing.
That's not at all what this thread is suggesting. | |
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xlr8r said: Aka Prince please play some abstrace wannabe ethereal shit that Wendy n Lisa are doing.
ye stop this booty shaking funk thudding genius gyrations that is central prince and listen 2 all the 'experts' give them what they want purple pimp! |
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Prince is not the victim of anything, he makes his own choices. Who made you a shrink??  | |
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The current Prince, by that meaning 'Lotusflow3r' and 'MPLSoUND' is simply an homage Prince is doing to Prince. That is all. It's up to people and fans to like it or not, to enjoy it or not.
I personally enjoy it. I think that 1978-1994 is the Prince signature and nothing he did after (with the exception of The Rainbow Children) can compare 2 that 'anger' and musical research. The present is something of an ode to the past, but not lingering in unuseful nostalgia. Anyway, I'm putting Lotusflow3r in repeat. | |
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