I've always thought, and said, that if you take songs from Musicology, 3121, and Planet Earth, that'd you'd have ONE good CD. Prince didn't used to have a lot of filler. Every song, whether single worthy or not, was a good song, and people remembered it.

Most younger people who know Prince (and there are many who don't) know him for the earlier stuff just the same as older people do. His reputation rests ENTIRELY on his earlier work. People have heard "Black Sweat", "Guitar", etc, but mostly they forget those songs as soon as they hear them, because they simply don't like them. They remember the classic stuff much more. This goes for younger and older people. If he'd never recorded a single new song in the last 14 years, but continued to tour, it wouldn't make the slightest difference to his standing (although he would probably be more respected by critics and musicians because he wouldn't have spoiled his reputation by releasing so many duds).

This is all so obvious that the only surprising thing is that some actually can't see it. For those of us who can see it (the vast majority), nothing we say is gonna make Prince get it back again, so it's best to just enjoy the live performances and leave the newer material for the die-hards.

Marrk said:

I'm old skool... but I'm not stuck there. I still enjoy much of the music he makes now... as much as I did then. I don't hold Prince to some lofty and very unrealistic expectation some do. 30+ years is a long..long time. I take every album as it comes and don't stress myself worrying about if it will be as good as Sign o' the Times or Lovesexy. Heck of the latest releases... I feel that MPLSound is one of his best albums ever. In My Opinion... it rates right behind SOTT, Lovesexy and the Gold Experience in a group of albums which include 1999, Purple Rain, the Black Album and IMO...3121. Lotusflow3r rates middle of the pack...but favorably so in the midst of The Symbol Album, Batman, Musicology and Parade. And just on GP... the albums I don't like on the whole are Graffit Bridge, Rainbow Children, NEWS and New Power Soul. Everything else falls somewhere in between.

but....hey... those are just my opinons and only matters to anyone else in the context of having some 'good' discussion about what we like and don't like about the albums.

The very content of your post answers your own question. You are not giving respect to those who like the current output.... yet you feel that they should respect your opinons. What you're doing is talking down on the current content. Most people are or are in part defined by the music they listen to. So it you insult that music... it is taken as if you insult them as well. And many people do insult people who like the current music directly in the context of stating their opinions... but claim innocence as if they are oblivious to what they are actually doing.

No one should have to explain to you or justify their opinion about their music. You have a right to your opinion as well. But the problem you state your opinion as if it was fact. People who do this seem dead set on convincing others that their 'negative' opinion is the correct one and is indeed fact... which it clearly isn't.

And your opinion...valid or not... as stated is certainly a 'negative' opinion. Negative opinions are seldom met with positive responses. Negativity begots negativity.

Some people have the ability to state their opinions..even negative ones and not be critiqued for it because they don't try to force their opinion down the throats of others as any thing more than just that... an opinion. Mutual respect is key... but when you speak negativity and you talk down on others in the content of that negativity.... you are not showing any respect for other people's opinons. So if you don't give respect... why expect respect?



.

It's a Gosh Darn shame that we all cant have the same opinion isnt it?

ANd its a crying shame that Prince couldnt just do what was expected of him and stay stuck in a time warp so that all he ever produces is echo's of the past so we can relive it day after day after day after day after day after.....: zzz:

It's a Gosh Darn shame that we all cant have the same opinion isnt it?

ANd its a crying shame that Prince couldnt just do what was expected of him and stay stuck in a time warp so that all he ever produces is echo's of the past so we can relive it day after day after day after day after day after.....: zzz: :zzz:Very well said!!!

Prince was a bit overrated in the past..
If it wasn't for the film "Purple Rain", he would still be Prince but on a lower scale, and not on par with MJ, Stevie, etc.. Most of you all would ot be fans..especially most white American and European fans...

Prince is a bit underrated now..just a bit..


Older fans have fond memories of their wild, and sexy, youth that are attached to Prince's past. Vanity 6 was being played in the clubs when they were out on the hunt, and the ballads were being played in their bedrooms. Prince was a promoter of that lifestyle.

Some Old Schoolers act like they are not personally attached to the music of the past based on memories and not just value of the output.. (by the lyrics, and not just the music). is well..a lie. They remind me of fmaily members who over-romanticized the past with music of those groups from the early 80's, 70's, 60's, and 50's.

I think the new schoolers who see things with a fresh eye, and hear with fresh ears is very "refreshing" at times..

The downside to new schoolers is they love the now too much. It's their time, and you can't move them with something that is not happening now.

It's funny to see though all of the arguments to see what's really behind the passion of both sides..

It's so.. "self-centric" at times.

YHWH is Elohim Yahoshua is King

Marrk said:

I'm old skool... but I'm not stuck there. I still enjoy much of the music he makes now... as much as I did then. I don't hold Prince to some lofty and very unrealistic expectation some do. 30+ years is a long..long time. I take every album as it comes and don't stress myself worrying about if it will be as good as Sign o' the Times or Lovesexy. Heck of the latest releases... I feel that MPLSound is one of his best albums ever. In My Opinion... it rates right behind SOTT, Lovesexy and the Gold Experience in a group of albums which include 1999, Purple Rain, the Black Album and IMO...3121. Lotusflow3r rates middle of the pack...but favorably so in the midst of The Symbol Album, Batman, Musicology and Parade. And just on GP... the albums I don't like on the whole are Graffit Bridge, Rainbow Children, NEWS and New Power Soul. Everything else falls somewhere in between.

but....hey... those are just my opinons and only matters to anyone else in the context of having some 'good' discussion about what we like and don't like about the albums.

The very content of your post answers your own question. You are not giving respect to those who like the current output.... yet you feel that they should respect your opinons. What you're doing is talking down on the current content. Most people are or are in part defined by the music they listen to. So it you insult that music... it is taken as if you insult them as well. And many people do insult people who like the current music directly in the context of stating their opinions... but claim innocence as if they are oblivious to what they are actually doing.

No one should have to explain to you or justify their opinion about their music. You have a right to your opinion as well. But the problem you state your opinion as if it was fact. People who do this seem dead set on convincing others that their 'negative' opinion is the correct one and is indeed fact... which it clearly isn't.

And your opinion...valid or not... as stated is certainly a 'negative' opinion. Negative opinions are seldom met with positive responses. Negativity begots negativity.

Some people have the ability to state their opinions..even negative ones and not be critiqued for it because they don't try to force their opinion down the throats of others as any thing more than just that... an opinion. Mutual respect is key... but when you speak negativity and you talk down on others in the content of that negativity.... you are not showing any respect for other people's opinons. So if you don't give respect... why expect respect?



.

It may be true that the younger fans can't always appreciate the old school days, because they haven't lived back then, but it is not their "fault" they didn't, it's just the way it is. The only thing I don't understand is why are so many "old-schoolers" so keen on spoiling the positive experiences for the younger listener who simply enjoy his new music and will probably get that "old school feeling" in 30 years,when they listen to Lotusflow3r.
It doesn't make the younger ones clueless about quality music or missing the point. Som still understand why 1999 has this special feeling, but why only enjoy a few albums when you feel you could enjoy (nearly) all of them?
As a matter of principles? Not good.
Because you can't identify with it? Okay, but maybe others can.
Because you simply don't like how it sounds? Okay, but maybe others do.
Because you think the music is lacking in quality, even if it sounds "good" to the average ear? You ought to listen, Prince is still very innovative with his sounds/melodies/chord progressions/...

I respect old schooler and I do understand why the 80s material means that much to them. I'd prefer that decade over any other too. But the way I respect them they should simply accept that I was born later, which maybe gave me the opportunity to enjoy the 90s and 00s stuff too. It doesn't make me a better or worse fan, nor do I know less about music.
I was born a few years later, that's it.

It may be true that the younger fans can't always appreciate the old school days, because they haven't lived back then, but it is not their "fault" they didn't, it's just the way it is. The only thing I don't understand is why are so many "old-schoolers" so keen on spoiling the positive experiences for the younger listener who simply enjoy his new music and will probably get that "old school feeling" in 30 years,when they listen to Lotusflow3r.
It doesn't make the younger ones clueless about quality music or missing the point. Som still understand why 1999 has this special feeling, but why only enjoy a few albums when you feel you could enjoy (nearly) all of them?
As a matter of principles? Not good.
Because you can't identify with it? Okay, but maybe others can.
Because you simply don't like how it sounds? Okay, but maybe others do.
Because you think the music is lacking in quality, even if it sounds "good" to the average ear? You ought to listen, Prince is still very innovative with his sounds/melodies/chord progressions/...

I respect old schooler and I do understand why the 80s material means that much to them. I'd prefer that decade over any other too. But the way I respect them they should simply accept that I was born later, which maybe gave me the opportunity to enjoy the 90s and 00s stuff too. It doesn't make me a better or worse fan, nor do I know less about music.
I was born a few years later, that's it.

We lived the dream, when Prince was innovative, #1 everwhere, respected, and truly a great, interesting artist in the studio.

'Interesting' is the operative word right here. He no longer is as interesting as he was, simple as. His albums are now boring after a short time, and worst still, derivative of himself, a pale shadow of what he was. Honestly 25% of his new material is great. Is this good enough really?

The only thing he is good for right now is hitting the stage, then he is the best in the World, no doubt about that. I don't understand why, so in keeping with the thread title, 'School' me on why you consider he is great 'now' as opposed to back 'then'.

Marrk said:

I’m an “old-schooler” at 46. I remember listening to “soft and wet” when it was released to radio and no-one knew who Prince was. I have enjoyed his music from day one to today. So I lived the “dream” so to speak. And yes he was all those things that u listed in that first paragraph.

Where we differ is at the word “interesting”. To me he is as interesting as a 50 year old performer I have been following for 30 years could possibly be. Unless he commits a murder or moves to Africa and starts making all of songs using only antique African instruments I don’t know how much more “interesting” he can be.

To my ears he still sounds unique to himself and very quirky compared to the average musician who is now having “hits” and being lauded by the critics.



Why don’t u just face the fact that u have lost interest? That doesn’t imply that Prince himself is not interesting. Prince simply keeps moving forward adjusting his music to the times and trying to view it differently each time out of the gate.

Lotusflow3r and MPLSound do not sound to my ears like “1999” or “for U” or “TGE”. They are new entities with their own personalities. U simply can’t relate to them. And find yourself rushing backward in time trying to identify in the past what u don’t like about the present.

Some of the fans like myself have been able to move forward and appreciate Prince wherever he is in time. I love the 80’s music but I don’t live there. I never rush to compare Prince with his past because I don’t find that relevant. When “COME” was released I had no desire to compare it to “Graffiti Bridge”. It’s an entirely different sounding work performed by someone who is always searching for a new way of expression.

U say that 25% of the current work is great then pose is it enough. What is the alternative? I happen to probably enjoy 90% of it. Should the rest of us who actually enjoy his current creations be denied that pleasure simply because u don’t feel it?

Since we don’t like 100% of what he does mean he’s not good for anything but the stage? Sounds really selfish to me.

I think Prince was great back in the day and great now. What other 50 year old do u compare him too?
[Edited 4/16/09 8:17am]

Marrk said:

I’m an “old-schooler” at 46. I remember listening to “soft and wet” when it was released to radio and no-one knew who Prince was. I have enjoyed his music from day one to today. So I lived the “dream” so to speak. And yes he was all those things that u listed in that first paragraph.

Where we differ is at the word “interesting”. To me he is as interesting as a 50 year old performer I have been following for 30 years could possibly be. Unless he commits a murder or moves to Africa and starts making all of songs using only antique African instruments I don’t know how much more “interesting” he can be.

To my ears he still sounds unique to himself and very quirky compared to the average musician who is now having “hits” and being lauded by the critics.



Why don’t u just face the fact that u have lost interest? That doesn’t imply that Prince himself is not interesting. Prince simply keeps moving forward adjusting his music to the times and trying to view it differently each time out of the gate.

Lotusflow3r and MPLSound do not sound to my ears like “1999” or “for U” or “TGE”. They are new entities with their own personalities. U simply can’t relate to them. And find yourself rushing backward in time trying to identify in the past what u don’t like about the present.

Some of the fans like myself have been able to move forward and appreciate Prince wherever he is in time. I love the 80’s music but I don’t live there. I never rush to compare Prince with his past because I don’t find that relevant. When “COME” was released I had no desire to compare it to “Graffiti Bridge”. It’s an entirely different sounding work performed by someone who is always searching for a new way of expression.

U say that 25% of the current work is great then pose is it enough. What is the alternative? I happen to probably enjoy 90% of it. Should the rest of us who actually enjoy his current creations be denied that pleasure simply because u don’t feel it?

Since we don’t like 100% of what he does mean he’s not good for anything but the stage? Sounds really selfish to me.

I think Prince was great back in the day and great now. What other 50 year old do u compare him too?
[Edited 4/16/09 8:17am]

some poignant stuff (see above)

Marrk said:

I’m an “old-schooler” at 46. I remember listening to “soft and wet” when it was released to radio and no-one knew who Prince was. I have enjoyed his music from day one to today. So I lived the “dream” so to speak. And yes he was all those things that u listed in that first paragraph.

Where we differ is at the word “interesting”. To me he is as interesting as a 50 year old performer I have been following for 30 years could possibly be. Unless he commits a murder or moves to Africa and starts making all of songs using only antique African instruments I don’t know how much more “interesting” he can be.

To my ears he still sounds unique to himself and very quirky compared to the average musician who is now having “hits” and being lauded by the critics.



Why don’t u just face the fact that u have lost interest? That doesn’t imply that Prince himself is not interesting. Prince simply keeps moving forward adjusting his music to the times and trying to view it differently each time out of the gate.

Lotusflow3r and MPLSound do not sound to my ears like “1999” or “for U” or “TGE”. They are new entities with their own personalities. U simply can’t relate to them. And find yourself rushing backward in time trying to identify in the past what u don’t like about the present.

Some of the fans like myself have been able to move forward and appreciate Prince wherever he is in time. I love the 80’s music but I don’t live there. I never rush to compare Prince with his past because I don’t find that relevant. When “COME” was released I had no desire to compare it to “Graffiti Bridge”. It’s an entirely different sounding work performed by someone who is always searching for a new way of expression.

U say that 25% of the current work is great then pose is it enough. What is the alternative? I happen to probably enjoy 90% of it. Should the rest of us who actually enjoy his current creations be denied that pleasure simply because u don’t feel it?

Since we don’t like 100% of what he does mean he’s not good for anything but the stage? Sounds really selfish to me.

I think Prince was great back in the day and great now. What other 50 year old do u compare him too?
[Edited 4/16/09 8:17am]

so, returning to the prince of 1987, what would he have to say about all this?

i have a really hard time believing it would be kind.

imagine prince braiding his hair, sliding on his black leather jacket and hopping into his '67 t-bird and popping in a cassette of 'musicology' or 'mplsound.'

It may be true that the younger fans can't always appreciate the old school days, because they haven't lived back then, but it is not their "fault" they didn't, it's just the way it is. The only thing I don't understand is why are so many "old-schoolers" so keen on spoiling the positive experiences for the younger listener who simply enjoy his new music and will probably get that "old school feeling" in 30 years,when they listen to Lotusflow3r.
It doesn't make the younger ones clueless about quality music or missing the point. Som still understand why 1999 has this special feeling, but why only enjoy a few albums when you feel you could enjoy (nearly) all of them?
As a matter of principles? Not good.
Because you can't identify with it? Okay, but maybe others can.
Because you simply don't like how it sounds? Okay, but maybe others do.
Because you think the music is lacking in quality, even if it sounds "good" to the average ear? You ought to listen, Prince is still very innovative with his sounds/melodies/chord progressions/...

I respect old schooler and I do understand why the 80s material means that much to them. I'd prefer that decade over any other too. But the way I respect them they should simply accept that I was born later, which maybe gave me the opportunity to enjoy the 90s and 00s stuff too. It doesn't make me a better or worse fan, nor do I know less about music.
I was born a few years later, that's it.

Marrk said:

I’m an “old-schooler” at 46. I remember listening to “soft and wet” when it was released to radio and no-one knew who Prince was. I have enjoyed his music from day one to today. So I lived the “dream” so to speak. And yes he was all those things that u listed in that first paragraph.

Where we differ is at the word “interesting”. To me he is as interesting as a 50 year old performer I have been following for 30 years could possibly be. Unless he commits a murder or moves to Africa and starts making all of songs using only antique African instruments I don’t know how much more “interesting” he can be.

To my ears he still sounds unique to himself and very quirky compared to the average musician who is now having “hits” and being lauded by the critics.



Why don’t u just face the fact that u have lost interest? That doesn’t imply that Prince himself is not interesting. Prince simply keeps moving forward adjusting his music to the times and trying to view it differently each time out of the gate.

Lotusflow3r and MPLSound do not sound to my ears like “1999” or “for U” or “TGE”. They are new entities with their own personalities. U simply can’t relate to them. And find yourself rushing backward in time trying to identify in the past what u don’t like about the present.

Some of the fans like myself have been able to move forward and appreciate Prince wherever he is in time. I love the 80’s music but I don’t live there. I never rush to compare Prince with his past because I don’t find that relevant. When “COME” was released I had no desire to compare it to “Graffiti Bridge”. It’s an entirely different sounding work performed by someone who is always searching for a new way of expression.

U say that 25% of the current work is great then pose is it enough. What is the alternative? I happen to probably enjoy 90% of it. Should the rest of us who actually enjoy his current creations be denied that pleasure simply because u don’t feel it?

Since we don’t like 100% of what he does mean he’s not good for anything but the stage? Sounds really selfish to me.

I think Prince was great back in the day and great now. What other 50 year old do u compare him too?
[Edited 4/16/09 8:17am]

I admit: i am gonna brag a bit here.

But to me, it isnt in the first place about new-schoolers vs old-schoolers.

It is more about understanding what is intelligent, creative and genious about his music vs when he is playing it easy and underachieving.

Many people in here say they love MPLsound because it brings back the Minneapolis Sound.
IMO those people simply don't listen 'deep' enough or they listen to music on a too general level.
They react like: oh, I hear the Linn drum, and those cheap sounding synths again, how brilliant.
Not brilliant at all: Its not what kind of devices Prince used in the eighties, its HOW he used them. The Linn on MPLsound is used as a gimmick, sounding the same on most of the songs. On songs like Automatic, The Beautifull ones and the Ballad of Dorothy Parker he used the Linn to create brilliant drumpatterns.
Another line i have often read here: I like this song, I can bob my head to it. So what? That doesnt make Dance 4 me a great song, on par with Erotic City, or even a B-side like SEX.

The same goes for Lotusflow3r by the way: people who listen 'superficially' to music seem to mistake his guitar-playing on Boom and Dreamer with great songs. That is not what is happening there: Prince is trying to show off what a great guitarist he is, that is all.
But that is far different from using the ability to play a great solo on a song, without overindulgence, making it work in the context of a good composition (The Question of U).

To put it very blunt: too many people here seem to lack the capability to understand when Princes music is really good, probably also the people who feel Janet Jackson and Debarge are important artists.

Playing the devils advocate, out of conviction