wonder505 said:

I agree. Times Socially change...but the seed that was in the peaceful feeling of the term "Old School," is now a tree in our lives...especially when rooted in great music that just loves everybody.

luv4u said:

what do you guys think prince 1987 would have to say about prince records after 1995?

stanleylieber said:

I think he would say what I think.
That everything post The Gold Experience is just icing on the cake. I really don't think he's concerned with trying to create another masterpiece.

For me, he made more great music in his first fifteen years or so than any other artist in history. I just look at every thing since then as a bonus.

Accujack said:

you really believe that prince 1987, author of the 'black album,' who was so disturbed by nelson george that he couldn't just let it go, would take a laid back, casual attitude to the erosion of his critical reputation?

i agree he has changed and takes music less seriously these days. people in this thread are saying that's the problem.

i think it's great if you don't let it bother you.

stanleylieber said:

To be honest, the black album is one of my least favorite Prince albums, and I truly believe that if it were released today it would be dismissed as garbage by the Walls of the org.

Accujack said:

i'm going to assume you understood that the relative quality of that album has absolutely nothing to do with my point.

stanleylieber said:

What is the relation between the black album, and the Nelson George thing?
I guess I don't know the story, or understand what point you are trying to make.

Personally, I think people who claim there were no fillers on 80's albums may be romanticizing a bit.

I've been a fan since the 80's so I guess I'm an "old schooler" but I've had no trouble enjoying the bulk of his 90's output and, outside of TRC, his 00's work as well.

Some people completely lose their shit over Dirty Mind. ...and while I enjoy it, there's quite a few albums from the last 20 years that I like MUCH more.

I think most fans regard Prince's music in terms of what they like rather than what he as an artist is going through and what is influencing the music he is putting out. It is really not about the fans but about him and his artistry.
It is not about comparing his music to other musicians or about comparing him to his past.

Accujack said:

i had to step away from this thread for a bit.

i keep thinking people know what we are arguing about.

nelson george is a very respected music critic. in the 1980s, starting with 'purple rain,' really, he gave prince a hard time about selling out to the white pop market. sometime around 1987, prince was smarting from the commercial success of hip-hop (which he deemed to not be 'real' music), and nelson george was again critical of his latest album ('sott'). the legend goes that prince sort of freaked out about mr. george and other critics accusing him of losing his blackness or street credibility. gangsta rap was beginning to emerge, and by comparison, prince's funk was starting to appear 'soft.'

enter the 'black album.'

as prince explained in the lovesexy tour book, he became angry at his critics and assembled this collection as a way to prove that he could still make funky, 'black' music.

anyway, the point i was trying to make was that, prior to blue monday, prince was very focused on his legacy and his position relative to his contemporaries in the pop music world with regards to the quality and freshness of his music. i believe that the prince who walked the earth prior to december 1, 1987 would have savaged the prince who kept putting out records after 1995.

now, as much as i love 'lovesexy,' i sort of think prince played up the religious epiphany angle as a sort of last ditch effort at igniting a new mainstream phenomenon. i believe he convinced himself that his mplsound/gospel hybrid could be the next big thing.

obviously, that didn't happen in the u.s. (though this new angle did meet with success in europe). i think that after a string of stinging critical failures ('batman,' 'graffiti bridge,' 'diamonds and pearls' [which was massively successful but was also met with sideways glances by the 'important' critics], 'o(+>'), prince began to crack a bit under the pressure of maintaining his dual legacy as a capital-a Artist and a mainstream superstar. doubtless, the failure of 'o(+>' to match the sales of 'diamonds and pearls' (which meant prince had failed to meet the terms of his $108 million contract right out of the gate), contributed to this feeling of impending catastrophe.

i think his crusade against the record labels is a noble one. but i also think it was another crossroads where prince came up with yet another inventive way to make lemonade out of lemons. like the 'lovesexy' bid in '88, prince turned things around 180 degrees and launched a one-man rebellion against his record label, who had so recently delivered him to the top of the charts. again, though, this radical reversal of direction failed to ignite a sales resurgence in his u.s. market after the previous album's lackluster showing.

prince went through some difficult personal times in the mid- '90s. his next professional move was intertwined with yet another religious conversion (first with the '96 era new age stuff and then with the '97 era jw conversion, which was perhaps his first 100% sincere conversion to date). once again he brought religion to the forefront of his image. once again it failed to trigger a resurgence in his u.s. sales. 'emancipation' was largely ignored in spite of his massive promotional efforts ('double platinum' status in this case meaning the album actually shipped 1/3 the number required for a single disc to achieve double platinum), and the 'triple threat' package of prince, larry graham and chaka khan didn't put him back at the top of the charts.

so prince decided to fully sell out. 'rave un2 the joy fantastic' was calculated to appeal to all of his strongest markets.

then the unthinkable happened: prince's attempt to replicate the sellout/success template of 'diamonds and pearls' failed. the album failed to sell.

that had to hurt.

prince took one final stab at pursuing art for art's sake with 'trc.'

i think everything prince has done since then has been primarily aimed at maintaining his commercial viability as a live performing artist. as others have remarked, his albums now serve primarily as advertisements for his live show.

so, returning to the prince of 1987, what would he have to say about all this?

i have a really hard time believing it would be kind.

imagine prince braiding his hair, sliding on his black leather jacket and hopping into his '67 t-bird and popping in a cassette of 'musicology' or 'mplsound.'

Marrk said:

Let's flip this on it's head name one artist that is making better or just as good records as he/she did in the 80's ....

And Prince did make some very below par records in the 80's ...unless you think the sunshine was coming out of his ass in the 80's..

Apart from Prince ...no one...

TAXI for marrk...

LondonStyle said:

what do other artists have to do with prince? i can't remember for sure, but weren't you one of those people complaining about the threads that compare prince's websites to those of other musicians?

(apologies if you weren't.)

prince's worst songs are better than most of what's on the radio. i don't think comparisons with other artists offer any insight into old prince vs. new prince.
[Edited 4/16/09 1:09am]

In the 80s Prince was limited by only having 40 minutes of music to release on vynil.
In the 90s that changed. CDs allowed him to put more out, and with it went quality control.

All the great songs are still there after 1990, you just have to do more digging to find them.

I would imagine Prince released as many great songs in the 90s as he did in the 80s. He just happened to release more duff songs as well.

As for me, I'd rather listen to Prince's sh1t than alot of other artists 'best' stuff.

stanleylieber said:

The reason old school orgers avoid this question is because they can't answer it Prince is in a class by himself when he brags on records it's corny but it's true ....since he came out in the 80's no one's come close to producing the body of work ...when you take out the so called "filler" he's made real quality records for 30 years ....and the amount blows away any one else ...

THIS IS THE FACT ....MOST IN FACT NO ARTIST TODAY 2009 IS MAKING GOOD RECORDS LIKE THEY DID IN THE 80'S / 90'S / 00'S ....Prince is the only one doing .....sorry old orgrs but this is fact...radio play or not ...

you really are fucking crazy.

read the thread.

i'm done.

LondonStyle said:

No, sorry, it's not fact, it's just your opinion.

Off the top of my head (and there are more) :

Bruce Springsteen. Working On A Dream is as solid an album as anything else he's released.

U2. No Line On The Horizon. Probably not any better than, but stands up to anything they've done.

I think neither of them, just like Prince, is breaking new ground with their latest releases, but theirs compare more favourably with their heydey releases than Prince's do.

Working On A Dream, for instance, is musically every bit as good as Born In The USA, it's only nostalgia that makes Born seem like the better album.

Can the same be said of Purple Rain and LotusFlow$r? Or MPLSouND and 1999?

Only if you're listening with the volume off.

But that's just my opinion of course.

This discussion is doomed to failure.

AsylumUtopia said:

That's why i love threads like this cause all the old rockers come out and wave the Bruce and U2 flag....please WTF are these guys doing apart from rehased versions of the 80's stuff

U2 and Bruce are Music Industry ...they never broke a window or a glass

...12 Albums tops ...come on...

Let's give Prince some credit here .... signed as an RnB artist in 1978 ...shit look at his movement .....he a "Punk" in the British sence of the word...

If Prince had released only 12 albums in 30 years like these other guys, he would have the greatest body of work since the Beatles.
But he chooses to give us as much as he can.

LondonStyle said:

Ok, firstly I'm not an old rocker, I'm an old hippie, so you can sod off with that attempted insult.

Secondly, I don't disagree with much of what you say here, but if you absorb what I wrote instead of jumping on it, perhaps you'll realise it's validity.

I made no mention of Prince's musical credentials, but as you brought it up, I do agree agree with you - he's a maverick in a way that U2, Bruce, et al never have been and never will be.

The point I was making, and I thought it was pretty clear to begin with, was that there are artists out there making music every bit as good as that which they made during the 80's. My Opinion, that's all, shouldn't be too hard to grasp without jumping in with a cheap 'old rocker' jibe.

As far as Prince's current output compared to his 80's stuff? Again, just my opinion, it's nowhere close. In that respect Bruce Springsteen is doing a better job because his fans are obviously less disappointed in him.

And when we're talking about comparing recent to 80's albums why should we 'give Prince credit'. His presumed status as maverick/punk/genius/whatever has no relevance whatsoever. Music that isn't as good as the music you once released is still music that isn't as good as the music you once released, regardless of who or what you are or have been.

And again, it's all just opinion.

AsylumUtopia said:

Look the bar is really not that high for Bruce and U2 so your not gonna get the same shock factor from fans....most of their fans are music industry radio DJ types anyway....

...cut your hair...

It may be true that the younger fans can't always appreciate the old school days, because they haven't lived back then, but it is not their "fault" they didn't, it's just the way it is. The only thing I don't understand is why are so many "old-schoolers" so keen on spoiling the positive experiences for the younger listener who simply enjoy his new music and will probably get that "old school feeling" in 30 years,when they listen to Lotusflow3r.
It doesn't make the younger ones clueless about quality music or missing the point. Som still understand why 1999 has this special feeling, but why only enjoy a few albums when you feel you could enjoy (nearly) all of them?
As a matter of principles? Not good.
Because you can't identify with it? Okay, but maybe others can.
Because you simply don't like how it sounds? Okay, but maybe others do.
Because you think the music is lacking in quality, even if it sounds "good" to the average ear? You ought to listen, Prince is still very innovative with his sounds/melodies/chord progressions/...

I respect old schooler and I do understand why the 80s material means that much to them. I'd prefer that decade over any other too. But the way I respect them they should simply accept that I was born later, which maybe gave me the opportunity to enjoy the 90s and 00s stuff too. It doesn't make me a better or worse fan, nor do I know less about music.
I was born a few years later, that's it.

LondonStyle said:

Absolutely. Agreed (except for the bit about their fans, we're not all industry types ). But it still does not change the fact (sorry, opinion) that their recent stuff is as good as their 80's stuff.

On the other hand, the bar set by Prince is impossibly high, so I would never expect him to release albums that I feel are comparable to his 80's stuff.

Maybe next year.
(actually, I never did do the long hair thing, I rebelled against it!)

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

That's an invitation? I had to double-check and read again to make sure that he wasn't an MJ fan come to hate on the Purple One. Needless to say, it did not leave me with the feeling he was inviting people to discuss, so much as invite people to take sides.

BigDaddyHQ said:

Thank you, Big Daddy! Preach, bruh!

eaglebear4839 said:

you guys have now managed to twist this around so that prince's old music = michael jackson.

i bow to your performance.

stanleylieber said:

Nope you have....give it up man ...you need to read the threads before you reply...

LondonStyle said:

stanleylieber said:

You need to take a break .... Prince is just a man .... a rich and talented man he can't give you back the 80's ...he's all grown ...Al Gore is making the headlines now...

Planet Earth.....