CJanssen said:

You don't understand. If it wasn't in the USA it didn't happen.

So, was this show ever broadcast in its entirety? Also, the best recording to be heard is the incomplete soundboard from Paris?

TyphoonTip said:

the only existing country.

Like Prince should have toured in Europe during 2004, Musicology tour, that could have been his year to earn the most money with touring.....

(pssst http://www.youtube.com/wa...HyTnt00b5I )

tomds said:

of course u did ..it was called the O2 arena shows

motherfunka said:

the act 1 tour was better in imo cause the way it was split with new songs then old songs were great..i'm glad i got a chance 2 c the max, the continetial live as opposed 2 sitting through the beautiful ones where we had the 1-2 punch of insatiable and scandalous

OldFriends4Sale said:

Nah. IIWYG is a GREAT song, but was a lousy single choice. Virtually no one understood the meaning of the lyrics and most casual listeners assumed it was some weird homo-erotic thing and never got past that. Which is why the only time the song WAS a hit was a few years later when TLC recorded it and the entire meaning of the lyrics changed by having a female sing it.

Audiences weren't ready for such a lyric in 1987, and probably still aren't today.

CJanssen said:

actually hun he stopped doing the musicology tour cause in essence he was doing the same shows in 2003 in australia and the number of shows done in US he was bored of it which seems 2 happen with him often

OldFriends4Sale said:

"1999" was his first double album.
[Edited 4/20/09 11:29am]

i will agree that not touring the US sucked and not having a video 4 girlfriend sucked. it would have been great 2 have toured the US 1st then go 2 europe. the rehersal i have of the possible US version of the sott is as close 2 one can get of how it would happen, but some of the parts later ended up during the lovesexy tour

keywhiz said:

It was one of the few lyrics I did clearly understand, it's one of his brilliant, emotional songs. He bonded with these kind of songs.

L4OATheOriginal said:

Hi Freddy
My remark is only to show that the first remark made no sense. To my knowledge, Prince made the most money ever with touring during Musicology in 2004. So no need for him to come over to Europe. Now, I was annoyed that he didn't but you don't hear me say "biggest mistake not to come to Europe" because he did a good year. 1987 was a superb year, no mistakes there.

Do we even know that Prince had the final say with the single releases from Sign 'o' the Times? I remember he wanted a 10 minute version of Lovesexy to be the third single from Lovesexy, but Warners made him put out Eye Wish U Heaven.

CJanssen said:

I agree with you 100%. IIWYG has my favorite lyrics on that album, and was exactly the kind of lyrics that made me a huge Prince fan early on. Problem was---it wasn't THIS kind of deeper-emotional stuff that pushed so many Prince singles to the top of the charts. (Except for maybe "When Doves Cry", but the success of that single was much more about the SOUND of the single than about the deep emotion in the lyrics, IMO.)

So beyond the hardcore faithful who 'got' the lyrics, the song went no further to the casual listener who said "WTF?? Some guy is singing in a less-than-masucline voice about being some chick's GIRLfriend?? I always KNEW that Prince-dude was a fag..."

Top 10 hit singles are not about deep, dense lyrics. The guy who wrote "Delirious" and "Kiss" SHOULD understand that. Maybe he did and was simply trying to push the boundaries of pop radio. Or maybe he just thought it was one of the strongest songs and the album and didn't care if radio played it or not. Whatever, the song didn't work as a single, hurt the momentum of the album and was yet another event in a long line of things Prince did that alienated mainstream listeners.

Some great LP tracks are best left as such.
[Edited 4/20/09 14:16pm]

blacksweat said:

You're right. We don't know for sure who was making the final calls. Then again, Lovesexy came AFTER SOTT and it might have been botched calls like the singles from SOTT that made WB decide to give him less control on such matters.

keywhiz said:

This seems to be theory that has gained more ground as time goes by but I don't think it's as simple as that. The song was a top 20 hit on the R&B chart, reaching #12, performing similar to U Got The Look which reached #11.

It's simply pop radio that didn't like it and I don't believe it's due primarily to the lyrics.

jtfolden said:

I'm going mostly on my memories from 1987. Pop radio didn't like it because pop audiences didn't respond to it. I distinctly remember a lot of people thinking "WTF??" about that song. I wasn't one of them--I loved it--but I remember thinking even then that it was a poor choice for a single.

But you're right that it wasn't simple. Nothing about Prince is ever simple. That's the problem: Prince isn't simple/pop audiences are. And the more complicated Prince presents himself and his music, the less response he gets from pop radio and pop audiences.

That record was too complicated to be a big pop hit. And it was the lyrics that made it complicated and alienating. Should have remained an album track, IMO. Releasing a track as a single doesn't make a track any better or any worse. It's still a great track. But from a purely marketing/business standpoint, it took a lot of momentum from the SOTT album and Prince's career.

Now, does anyone want to discuss the Lovesexy album cover??

keywhiz said:

It wasn't a double album as in songs
1999 was only double because most of the songs were in its extended form
10 Songs

SOTT, each side is an album itself the 1st side itself had 10 songs

If he did Purple Rain in it's extended form it too might have been a double album

CJanssen said:

hey hun

yeah there was a mistake with 1987 ..HE DIDN'T TOUR HERE

CJanssen said:

....It's the same attitude that feeds into this:

"Stop complaining ..why don't you just buy Lotusflow3r off ebay". From those who have casually walked into Target and spent just $12US.

keywhiz said:

I love it, too, and also agree it wasn't a great choice. However, I'm not especially convinced the track could have been a pop hit even if it had "different" lyrics. The biggest complaint I heard from my Prince appreciative friends in high school was that the track "dragged".

As another point, many people thought Prince was wearing a dress on the cover of the SOTT single and it still did incredibly well. I think a lot of people were used to Prince's "gender bending" ways at that point and those turned off by the likes of IIWYG because of it had probably abandoned him for the most part anyway.
[Edited 4/20/09 21:58pm]

PEJ said:

and Daaaaammn

OldFriends4Sale said:

1999 was a 2LP, aka a double album



credits, from: http://sleevographia2.fre...2DEU81.htm

keywhiz said:

I agree.Some songs,no matter how much we like them,are not suited to be singles."IIWYG" is one of those songs.The diehard fans understand that song and the point that Prince was trying to make,but the mainstream thought Prince had lost his mind.The few people who actually heard it on the radio probably thought "Wow,I guess Prince really is gay....he's singing about being somebody's girlfriend!" (lol).Also,this was 1987,a time when the whole macho/hip-hop thing was taking hold.Androgyny was on its way out.Another thing is,singles should be catchy,accessible with a memorable hook."Housequake" and "U Got The Look" are two prime examples.These songs are perfect choices for singles.Not surprisingly,the latter became a Number Two pop smash.

thedance said:

yep I had the album and cassette I remember well.
memories

thedance said:

I had the lp too

It was a double album in that it took 2 albums. Not because it was alot of songs but because the songs were in the extended form. But there were only 11 songs

Most of Princes albums had 4-5 songs each side. And they weren't double albums
What made 1999 a double was the length of the songs.

It was not a double album as Dream Factory would have been a triple album as Crystal Ball would have been or double album as Sign o the Times is.

Sign o the Times is a 'true' double album because of the amount of songs
1999 had 11 songs all together if the songs weren't released in their full form it would not be a double album.
Purple Rain had 9 songs altogether
ATWIAD had 9
Parade had 12 songs (more than 1999)
Sign o the Times had 9 songs on 1 side and 7 on the 2nd side 16 songs all together.
[Edited 4/21/09 6:47am]

jtfolden said:

Good point. I think that the hardcore fans who were willing to accept Prince regardless of what he was looking like or sounding like at that point could be measured by the 750,000 or so who purchased Lovesexy the following year. The rest of the 3.2 million who purchased SOTT and made "Sign of the Times" and "U Got The Look" big hits were the more-casual fans who said, "I don't HOW weird the little dude is, that's a great fucking song!"

I disagree with some of the people here who critisize his choice of singles of the album.

Especially around that period (1985 - 1988) Prince was an artist who did not only make commercial choices, but also ARTISTIC ones, even if they werent always the most commercialy appealing.

The video of Sign of the Times was, at that time, the first video (by a 'big' artist) only containing words. A crucial element of that song WERE the lyrics: the video is a way too put emphasis on them, and the graphics he used were not overdone, but tastefully understated.

Next to that: the choice of no video for If I was your girlfriend. 1. What kind of storyline or imagery could you use to visualise those lyrics. I think some sort of quasi-sensual video feautiring Prince and some fotomodelwould probably havent done the lyrics justic? 2. Again, it were some of his strongest lyrics of his entire career, and he probably realised that himself.
I remember hearing If I was your Girlfriend on the radio very often around that time in The Netherlands (were I live), and it was nice that you could visualise your own experience by such an amazing song.

When it comes to the third and fourth single, i think his choices were somewhat more commercially calculated:
U got the Look was the BIG, very popular dance / jukebox-song of the album, even among many people who didn't buy the album.
I could never take the place of your man seemed to be obviously aimed those who loved his rock-orientated material from the Purple Rain album. Nonetheless: i think that the studio-version, as a radio-song, sounds rather 'thin' (I consider the live-version superior). Strange Relationship would have made a better choice as a 4-th single, i think, a fuller sound and a catchy tune that could appeal to the pop-rock market as well as the R&B market.

When it comes to other possible choices mentioned:
Housequake i consider more like a club-track (just as Pussy Control for example), not necessarily something for the pop-chart.
I never do get people who say Adore should have been a single (i have seen dozens of people doing that here over the years). Why? First, it is too long for a radio-single, and an edit would certainly influenced the impact of the entire 'experience'.
Next to that i see adore as a TYPICAL album song (a gem in this case). It is one of his best ballads, but also one you have to get used to and listen to several times to really appreciate the brilliance (the bridge and second part is rather complex at some points, there are all kind of delicious, little harmony parts and instrumental touches that need to be 'discovered'). I am not sure its the type of song that would convince a non-fan who would hear that song on the radio for lets say 5 times.

Finally, if there is one song that SHOULD have been a single from that album, but wasnt it, it is IMO: The Cross.
On the radio it was one of the most played songs of the album, and many presentors and listeners were comparing it to the song Purple Rain. It seemed that song really did touch some emotional nerves among people with vary different tastes in music.
It also did receive a tremendous welcome from the fans when he played that song live. Right from the start of the first acoustic notes.
I think with a live-video from one of his european concerts, it would have made THE perfect 5th single from Sign of the Times.
[Edited 4/21/09 9:57am]

Riverpoet31 said:

Singles are ONLY about commercial choices. There's no artistic element to choosing singles. Singles pulled from albums exist only to promote that album and promote airplay to help sell that album. The ALBUM is an artistic statement, and videos can be artistic statements, but what is the ART in deciding to release one song or another as a single? Especially when it's a song you don't even make a video for?

Explain to me what was ARTISTIC about choosing to release IIWYG as a 45-RPM single?

Why should singles only be about commercial choices. I know, most (mainstream) artists have the tendency to pick the most commercial sounding / catchy / radio-or-tv friendly songs on an album as singles, in the hope that it will help them sell as many albums as possible.

Prince in the eighties often had the tendency to dare himself and others when it comes to things that are seen as 'routine' in the music business.
I am not saying that he didnt give a damn about commercial (aka financial) succes back then, but when he had made big bucks with the Purple Rain-album and movie, he sorta had the freedom (backed by the financial base) to go for things that aren't automatically the most financially profitable:

He could have made Purple Rain part 2, but he didn't. He choose to made a more 'difficult' psychedelic follow-up, because he probably didn't want to be pinpointed as the big selling funk-rock sex god...lol
His choice of releasing Paisley Park with some of-beat, low budget video he wasnt even in himself, was an ARTISTIC choice. A way of saying: screw you, I am not only that Purple Rain-bloke.

Why do you think he did put orchestral arrangements on the Parade album, and incorporated all kind of jazz- and european influences on that album. NOT for commercial reasons, but for creative, artistic ones.
He and the Revolution were testing new ground with that album, for the sake of creativity. To test themselves of what they were capable off, to try new things.

I look at Sign of the Times in the same way. Prince releasing a video with 'only words' for the title track, was Princes way of songing: pay attention to the lyrics in the first place.
He could have chosen for all kind of actual and apocalyptic images, but that had been done before on songs with political themes.
The Sign-video was a way of trying something new, an ARTISTIC choice again.

As you said, singles are in general a device to promote an album. And in that sense If i was your girlfriend does its 'job'.
But he is not going for the most obvious way: quasi-sensual images of himself and some lady sensually looking at and longing for eachother (that has lead to enough cheesy video's for him in the nineties, remember?)
By NOT releasing a video for the song he was saying, first: the lyrics can stand on itself, who needs a video for that? second: it can be considered as
a reaction against the 'routine' of the record-industry, that singles always need to have a video. Third: it can be seen as an attempt to mystify things, to make people curious about the album and his music in a different way.

Princes career has always been a (sometimes confusing) mixture between choices that were more commercialy driven (money first: the Nude Tour, the Diamonds and Pearls album, the Rave album, Musicology...) and more artistically driven choices (creativity first: Parade, Lovesexy, the Rainbow Children...).

When you don't get THAT, you seem to miss a very crucial aspect of his career.
[Edited 4/21/09 10:46am]

the only thing that hasn't been discussed in this thread however when talking about what singles should have been released over another, prince hardly releases more than 3 singles from a project ever, the only xception was purple rain and batman. not going 2 include gb since singles were released under different artists as well. as great as sott is and STILL is, prince had moved on once the talk of the black album started making the rounds. and even by the actual release date of the album, he started working on lovesexy. his creativity at the point was so blazing that 2 continue working on promoting sott was already a thing of the past 4 him