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Printableberniejobs said: stanleylieber said: i don't know what to say, man, it just didn't stand out to me.  I read a lot of reviews that are filled with "big" and unnecesary words like that. And usually the words don't stand out to me either, mainly because I have a decent vocabulary and I also use context clues to quickly scan through an artcile. But with this particular article, because I'm a big Prince fan and was really interested in getting into the review, I wanted to do more than just speed-read it. So I found myself with "dictionary.com" open in a separate window, checking the definition of every word I was unsure about. It's not that's I'm stupid, but it's that I care. Haha. [Edited 4/14/09 15:22pm]  it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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berniejobs said: stanleylieber said: i've never submitted anything to pitchfork but i do read their site. i think they usually do a pretty good job with prince. they mostly don't review things they consider to be irredeemable crap. in my view you want your review sources to be highly opinionated. everybody knows what to expect from pitchfork, so you can gauge something pretty well by comparing what you think of pitchfork with the text of an actual review. I agree with you that if Pitchfork didn't think it was good music or a good artist to begin with then they wouldn't even review it. They hold a pretty good standard on what they review and how. Which is why I do read a lot of their reviews. But therein probably lies the paradox for this reviewer. How much can he say about Lotusflow3r that isn't obvious or hasn't been said before. And he's gotta fill up and entire review with his words. So, to make it more interesting he jumbles it up with all those big words, which to me are just filler. (Filler - like the song "4ever") "therein"  it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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stanleylieber said: berniejobs said: I agree with you that if Pitchfork didn't think it was good music or a good artist to begin with then they wouldn't even review it. They hold a pretty good standard on what they review and how. Which is why I do read a lot of their reviews. But therein probably lies the paradox for this reviewer. How much can he say about Lotusflow3r that isn't obvious or hasn't been said before. And he's gotta fill up and entire review with his words. So, to make it more interesting he jumbles it up with all those big words, which to me are just filler. (Filler - like the song "4ever") "therein" Yes I wrote "therein" but I would never use that word in a conversation! | |
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berniejobs said: stanleylieber said: "therein" Yes I wrote "therein" but I would never use that word in a conversation! i have!  it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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stanleylieber said: Accujack said: I'm sure that every artist has, at one point or another in their career, borrowed too heavily from another's work, but again, it is world's apart from directly stealing from someone's actual recording. If I'm not mistaken, these albums were made before clearance costs were paid for copyrighted material, which makes it all the more pathetic. i just think you're blowing a lot of shit at these guys without acknowledging the artistic element in how they used sampling to build completely unrelated songs. fine, you think sampling is stealing. fine, you're okay with a musician quoting another song so long as they use a classical musical instrument to do it. I'm with you on this one. Or are we also slating George Michael? | |
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Spank86 said: stanleylieber said: i just think you're blowing a lot of shit at these guys without acknowledging the artistic element in how they used sampling to build completely unrelated songs. fine, you think sampling is stealing. fine, you're okay with a musician quoting another song so long as they use a classical musical instrument to do it. I'm with you on this one. Or are we also slating George Michael? i think this is strongly relevant to prince, as well. not only has he borrowed heavily from other artists using classical instruments, but he has literally sampled other artists (usually without credit, i might add) in many of his songs. it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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also our man prince acknowledges public enemy as being real artists. it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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stanleylieber said:
i just think you're blowing a lot of shit at these guys without acknowledging the artistic element in how they used sampling to build completely unrelated songs. fine, you think sampling is stealing.
I think that sampling (stealing) is one of the reasons the current state of music is shit. That's all. He is exactly who we thought he was | |
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stanleylieber said: also our man prince acknowledges public enemy as being real artists.
Bought a House Next to Prince..... 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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of course, prince is just as stupid as we are, so what do we know.
such harsh words lead to hilarious conclusions. music is a conversation that has been going on for thousands of years. music, and language in general, are made up of shared vocabulary. there is going to be a lot of "stealing" going on any time someone utters a sound. it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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stanleylieber said: also our man prince acknowledges public enemy as being real artists.
Good for him. He also believes in fairy tales. He is exactly who we thought he was | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: stanleylieber said: also our man prince acknowledges public enemy as being real artists.
Bought a House Next to Prince..... I think that's Ice Cube.  He is exactly who we thought he was | |
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Accujack said: stanleylieber said:
i just think you're blowing a lot of shit at these guys without acknowledging the artistic element in how they used sampling to build completely unrelated songs. fine, you think sampling is stealing.
I think that sampling (stealing) is one of the reasons the current state of music is shit. That's all. i would agree with that but i blame lame musicians and lame producers rather than sampling itself. it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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Accujack said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Bought a House Next to Prince..... I think that's Ice Cube. member of the bomb squad! it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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Accujack said: stanleylieber said: also our man prince acknowledges public enemy as being real artists.
Good for him. He also believes in fairy tales. zing! it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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stanleylieber said: Accujack said: I think that's Ice Cube. member of the bomb squad! When? I thought it was just Hank and Keith Shocklee, Chuck D, and Eric Sadler? He is exactly who we thought he was | |
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Accujack said: stanleylieber said: so long as we're disqualifying people for ignorance... if we're going to disqualify the bomb squad's productions as not being original, we'll need to remove anyone who plays blues guitar riffs or borrows from folk melodies. goodbye: jimi dylan prince the beatles the rolling stones [Edited 4/14/09 13:04pm] 
Puhlease. You can take that defense of stealing other's work elsewhere. There is a world of difference between being influenced by older music (and re-creating it with real instruments), and blatantly stealing the actual recordings of real artists and mixing it with a drum loop. Takes a Nation and Paul's Boutique are two of the biggest offenders of ripping off real artist's work. The only top 100 list these two belong in are the list of most unoriginal recordings. Here is a example of the thievery of just one The Bumb Squad's "productions": "Night of the Living Baseheads" A speech by Louis Farrakhan (Intro) "UFO" by ESG (sirens) "Fame" by David Bowie "The Grunt" by The J.B.'s (horn riff) "Scorpio" by Dennis Coffey (drums) "Son of Shaft" by The Bar-Kays "Funky Man" by Kool & The Gang "Bring the Noise" by Public Enemy (vocals: 'Bass!') "Christmas Rappin'" by Kurtis Blow (vocals: "Twas the night"/"Hold it now") "Do the Funky Penguin" by Rufus Thomas "I Can't Get Next to You" by The Temptations (vocals: "Everybody hold it, listen") "Pick Up the Pieces" by Average White Band "You Can Make It If You Try" by Sly & the Family Stone (drums) "I Don't Know What This World Is Coming To" by Soul Children (vocals: "Brothers and sisters") "Here We Go" (Live), & "Sucker M.C.'s (Krush-Groove 1)" by Run-DMC "Get Up, Get Into It, Get Involved" & "Soul Power Pt. I" by James Brown "Rappin' Ain't No Thang" by Boogie Boys featuring Kool Ski, Kid Delight & Disco Dave (Vocals: "We are willing") Here's one from the Crust Brothers for Paul's Boutique: Hey Ladies "The Ballroom Blitz" by Sweet "Party Time" by Kurtis Blow "Holy Ghost" by the Bar-Kays "Shake Your Pants" by Cameo "Pumpin' It Up" by P-Funk All Stars "Jungle Boogie" by Kool & the Gang "Machine Gun" by The Commodores "Jazzy Sensation" by Afrika Bambaataa "Change Le Beat/B-Side" by Fab 5 Freddy "Come Let Me Love You" by Jeanette "Lady" Day "Heartbreaker", & "So Ruff, So Tuff" by Zapp & Roger "Ain't It Funky Now", & "Funky President" by James Brown "Hey DJ" by Malcolm McLaren & the World Famous Supreme Team "High Powered Rap" by Disco Dave & the Force of the Five MC's (Crash Crew) Real genius shit going on there. Hell, you might as well defend Puffy and Hammer while your at it. [Edited 4/14/09 15:00pm] Paul's Boutique and It Takes a Nation are arguably two of the greatest albums in the short history of Hip Hop because of how those samples were ingeniously diced into an artistic gumbo. There's a huge creative rift between those styles of sample use and say... a P Diddy, Hammer or Flo Rida "rap over a hit" composition. Those days of multiple sampling jams have been lawyered out of existence anyhoo. If prince.org were to be made idiot proof, someone would just invent a better idiot. | |
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squirrelgrease said:
Paul's Boutique and It Takes a Nation are arguably two of the greatest albums in the short history of Hip Hop because of how those samples were ingeniously diced into an artistic gumbo. There's a huge creative rift between those styles of sample use and say... a P Diddy, Hammer or Flo Rida "rap over a hit" composition.
Different strokes I guess.
I own both albums, and do get some enjoyment out of both, but I personally will never rank any albums with that much sampling over albums of "new" compositions. I like some hip-hop, I just don't hold it in high regards like I do real music. He is exactly who we thought he was | |
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Accujack said: stanleylieber said: member of the bomb squad! When? I thought it was just Hank and Keith Shocklee, Chuck D, and Eric Sadler? i think it was more of an honorary title than anything, but he was included around the time of 'fear of a black planet' and 'amerikkk's most wanted.' i don't have my reference right here in front of me but i'm pretty sure he's listed as a member in the liner notes of his own albums, anyway. sir jinx was also awesome. it's amazing how many completely different songs he was able to construct out of 'aqua boogie.' it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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squirrelgrease said: Those days of multiple sampling jams have been lawyered out of existence anyhoo. 
you won't ever see me defending p. diddy's style of sampling. it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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Accujack said: I like some hip-hop, I just don't hold it in high regards like I do real music. oh lawd it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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stanleylieber said: Anxiety said: i can't believe they put the smiths above bowie on their list. i mean, WAY above. without bowie, there would have been no smiths. come on, now. and is nurse with wound THAT influential? ugh, i hate these lists.
 my friend put a "top 100 video games of all time" list on his blog. it generated thousands of hits, with people arguing and cussing each other in the comments. the list was randomly generated each time you loaded the page. A randomly generated top 25 Prince songs thread would be the shit. I would pay to watch that discourse unfold. If prince.org were to be made idiot proof, someone would just invent a better idiot. | |
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stanleylieber said: sir jinx was also awesome. it's amazing how many completely different songs he was able to construct out of 'aqua boogie.'
Is that even possible? You know, to create completely different songs stealing from the same song.  He is exactly who we thought he was | |
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Accujack said: stanleylieber said: sir jinx was also awesome. it's amazing how many completely different songs he was able to construct out of 'aqua boogie.'
Is that even possible? You know, to create completely different songs stealing from the same song. YES! That's how hiphop/rap ever established any credibility in the first place. [Edited 4/14/09 15:53pm] 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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stanleylieber said: squirrelgrease said: Those days of multiple sampling jams have been lawyered out of existence anyhoo.
you won't ever see me defending p. diddy's style of sampling. What? He don't steal right? Oh, I guess it's what is done with it after you steal it. So, if one criminal steals from a bank and buys a Ferrari with the money, you are cool with it? If another steals the money and buys a Ford Taurus, not so cool. He is exactly who we thought he was | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Accujack said: Is that even possible? You know, to create completely different songs stealing from the same song. YES! That's how hiphop/rap ever established any credibility in the first place. [Edited 4/14/09 15:53pm] Where is Vainandy when you need him? He is exactly who we thought he was | |
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Accujack said: stanleylieber said: sir jinx was also awesome. it's amazing how many completely different songs he was able to construct out of 'aqua boogie.'
Is that even possible? You know, to create completely different songs stealing from the same song. of course. do you think all the songs on 'death certificate' sound the same? most of them are built with pieces of 'aqua boogie.' prince's career is a good test for this. there's very little new he brought to the table. his work is a frankenstein's monster of other people's innovations. and really this is only notable because you can usually recognize the pieces. it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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What about Perez Hiltons review though? Nevermind this high brow nonsense | |
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Accujack said: stanleylieber said:
you won't ever see me defending p. diddy's style of sampling. What? He don't steal right? Oh, I guess it's what is done with it after you steal it. So, if one criminal steals from a bank and buys a Ferrari with the money, you are cool with it? If another steals the money and buys a Ford Taurus, not so cool. no i don't like his music because it sucks. he doesn't do much with a sample when he uses it. you seem really caught up over this ownership idea. what about the sound? do you really think 'night of the living baseheads' sounds enough like its constituent parts that it qualifies as stealing all of those songs that went into it? what about the songs those songs borrowed from? it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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just to further muddy the waters...
since the early '80s many instrument sounds on records by 'real musicians' are actually digital samples of instruments and not really the instruments themselves. in the late '80s it was a trend amongst producers to use a 5khz whitenoise sample instead of a real snare drum. it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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