Accujack said:

so long as we're disqualifying people for ignorance...

if we're going to disqualify the bomb squad's productions as not being original, we'll need to remove anyone who plays blues guitar riffs or borrows from folk melodies.

goodbye:

jimi
dylan
prince
the beatles
the rolling stones
[Edited 4/14/09 13:04pm]

ChaosDisorder said:

people don't talk that way, out loud, but this wasn't a verbal review spoken in conversation between friends.

two points here:

1. several of the words the original poster pointed out are either one syllable, very common words; or entirely common in music reviews. 'sieve' is a kitchen tool. 'mawkish' is so overused as to be tiresome. i'll grant you that 'acquiesce' is uncommon in speech but it was used in a natural way and is not at all uncommon in written english.

2. verbose reviews are a problem?

i get that people think pitchfork is elitist, but there are better ways to tear them down.

stanleylieber said:

Accurately reviewing Lotus aint one of them

Spank86 said:

see, how do i answer this without sounding like a snob?

these words are not at all uncommon in written english.

i mean, what are you accustomed to reading? 'readers digest'? (see, it's impossible not to be insulting.) the funny thing is, i'm pretty sure i've seen most of these problem words used to death in plain old entertainment rags. 'hubristic' and 'mawkish,' especially, are words i've seen over and over again in reviews of prince's own music.

i don't think the guy was trying to make himself sound smart. i think it was a pretty honest review that, unlike many reviews of prince's music in mainstream rags, wasn't especially colored by an attempt to please the party line of the magazine or some obvious editorial mandate.

i'm sorry dudes, but any rebuttal of a review that contains as its core the accusation that the reviewer is pretentious automatically loses on grounds of ridiculousness. it's a review. pretension is the basis of the concept.
[Edited 4/14/09 13:16pm]

stanleylieber said:

I'm accustomed to reading F Scott Fitzgerald and Herman Melville if you must know. Nevertheless I still think if you're going to use long words you really need to attend to your spelling and overall style so as not to wind up looking like a complete dick.

At least he didn't shoehorn in "evocative", I do give him some credit.

Oh and I have no intention of trying to rebut his opinions, they are his opinions and he's entitled to voice them.
[Edited 4/14/09 13:23pm]

Spank86 said:

they paid him to write, not to spell, right

cause his books are filled with horrible misspellings.

shouldna tried writing literary novels (much less the occasional review he tossed off) if he couldn't spell.

stanleylieber said:

Actually the copy I have is pretty good, and i tend to spot them.

muleFunk said:

You were just like me when I was a kid with all of those CD's, except that I was expecting the next Purple Rain until 90-something. The 80's is a blessing and a curse that Prince will never be able to shake off with anymore CD's that he releases. I don't want Prince to leave the business cause we need more music but if he did, I would understand. As long as Prince stays true to himself, then his music will always thrive.

Spank86 said:

dude is famous for misspellings, though.

i give up.

stanleylieber said:

So what? You asked me what I read. That's what (currently anyway).

It doesn't mean I approve of everything about the guys.
Nor does it mean that I can't disapprove of people people who can't even locate a spell checker on the internet.

Spank86 said:

stanleylieber said:

that's beautiful.

wait. what the hell are we talking about?

Anxiety said:

mashed potato girl

Anxiety said:

Why jam doesn't come in purple.

It's a travesty.

U like the food here?
(Yeah)
Good, huh?
(It's alright)
Try the canolli, it's fabulous
(I'm kinda full, alright)
Mmm

U gonna eat that meatball there?
U, U just gonna let it...

Maybe girl made some food out here

Here, give it 2 me
U're not gonna eat it
(At least not now)

Mmm, let's see what I can get up here 2 grease on

Mmm, yeah
Best meatball in the city
What are U doin' there?

Hmm, this might work

(Give it 2 me, I'll eat it)

Lemme see, mmm

So tell me, U like broads?
(They're alright, I...)
Yep
Boy, have I got a broad story 4 U

Yeah, some corn, yeah

(Jesus)

Let's see, uh

I'm on a date with this broad, right?

Let's see, stove top directions, uh

I bring her here
(Here?)
Yeah, right here
I thought I'd put some food in her belly

Empty contents into small sauce pan, hmm

U know, get a little curve in her slope
U know what I'm sayin?
(Slope?)
Right...

Now let me go see if I can find one of these muthafuckers, hmm

(Oh, gosh)
So I'm like "Go ahead toots, order what U like, it's on me"
Make her think I'm a big shot, U know
I said "So order, order somethin' 4 me 2
I'm gonna run 2 the little boys room

Hmm, shit, that definitely ain't no sauce pan

I gotta burp the baby

Mmm, that ain't no sauce pan

U know what I'm sayin'?"
I figured she'd order me somethin' light

Let me see if I can find this shit

Like a couple of salads or somethin'
Boy, was that a mistake
(Why?)
I comes back from the bathroom

Alright, got it, got it

I'm sittin' there

Ah, that's cool

Waitin' 4 the food

Now, if I can just get this corn open

This broad ordered the whole left side of the menu!

OK, let's see

Said she just wanted 2 nibble

Where's the damn can opener? Shit!

Nibble my ass

I'll open this muthafucker
I'm hungry!

This broad ate every fuckin' thing except the silverware

Shit ain't openin'

(Come on)
I kid U not

{phone rings}
Shit's gonna open now

I mean, she was a little on the thick side 2 begin with

Alright, I got it, mmm hmm

U know what I mean?
But I figured she'd have the decency 2 pig out when she got home

Talk
(Hey brother, what's up?)

Not here, right?
(Right)
I mean U, U ever had a broad do that?

Ain't nothin' but a wang

(No, not really)
Fuckin' pisses U off, am I right?

My girl's gone somewhere

Right, so I reaches over

I... I'm just cookin'

I took the fuckin' mashed potatoes and I threw 'em all over that broad

Hey, hey, what's this?

(Now wait a minute)
That ain't all though, check this out

Hmm, let me call U back

(What?)
The waiter sees what just happened

What the...

He's gonna be Mr. Macho, right
He comes over and says
"What U do that 4?"

"I'm sick of the changes U put me through?"

(And U said?)
I said "What the fuck business is it of yours?
I'm payin' 4 these fuckin' potatoes

"All U think about is music?"

I'll do what the fuck I wanna do with'em!
Now bring me a fuckin' finger bowl!"

"I'm leavin' your NBA no ballin' ass?"

(What happened?)
What happened?
I'll tell U what happened

Ain't that a bitch?

Here, gimme some of that meatball
(Hey, hey, I was gonna eat that)
This punk waiter, he think he's the hero type, right
Punk
He throws the finger bowl on my head
I kid U not
I'm sittin' there, head soakin' wet
Mashed potatoes in my finger nails
And this broad's crackin' up
(Ha ha ha ha)
I kid U not
She's rollin' on the carpet, people...
Gimme some water there
(Hey, hey, get...)
People leavin' the restaurant
She's laughin' so hard potatoes are flyin' off her head
(U got mad?)
Damn right I was mad!
I said, "Very funny"
(Well, it is kinda funny)
And I left her fuckin' ass right there
Rollin' in those fuckin' mashed potatoes
And I left this joint with out payin' a dime
(Well, what are U eatin' here now 4 I mean?)
That's the killer!
I was so mad I bought this joint
(But the girl...)
Fuckin' right
(What happened 2 her, man?)
That's her over there, workin' the fuckin' cash register
(Naw, her?)
U gonna eat this?
(That's the mashed potato girl?)
Here, gimme this bread
(She's, she's great, what do U mean?)
Is this the best bread in the city or what?
What the fuck's your problem?
(Look at her, she's, she's gorgeous)
U eat like a fuckin' parakeet
(What...)
I'm still hungry
U hungry?
(Naw, naw)
Naw, U not hungry
U want some bird seed or somethin'?
Look here, order me somethin'!
(Man, shut up now)
I'm gonna run 2 the little boys' room

stanleylieber said:

Puhlease. You can take that defense of stealing other's work elsewhere.

There is a world of difference between being influenced by older music (and re-creating it with real instruments), and blatantly stealing the actual recordings of real artists and mixing it with a drum loop.

Takes a Nation and Paul's Boutique are two of the biggest offenders of ripping off real artist's work.
The only top 100 list these two belong in are the list of most unoriginal recordings.

Here is a example of the thievery of just one The Bumb Squad's "productions":

"Night of the Living Baseheads"
A speech by Louis Farrakhan (Intro)
"UFO" by ESG (sirens)
"Fame" by David Bowie
"The Grunt" by The J.B.'s (horn riff)
"Scorpio" by Dennis Coffey (drums)
"Son of Shaft" by The Bar-Kays
"Funky Man" by Kool & The Gang
"Bring the Noise" by Public Enemy (vocals: 'Bass!')
"Christmas Rappin'" by Kurtis Blow (vocals: "Twas the night"/"Hold it now")
"Do the Funky Penguin" by Rufus Thomas
"I Can't Get Next to You" by The Temptations (vocals: "Everybody hold it, listen")
"Pick Up the Pieces" by Average White Band
"You Can Make It If You Try" by Sly & the Family Stone (drums)
"I Don't Know What This World Is Coming To" by Soul Children (vocals: "Brothers and sisters")
"Here We Go" (Live), & "Sucker M.C.'s (Krush-Groove 1)" by Run-DMC
"Get Up, Get Into It, Get Involved" & "Soul Power Pt. I" by James Brown
"Rappin' Ain't No Thang" by Boogie Boys featuring Kool Ski, Kid Delight & Disco Dave (Vocals: "We are willing")

Here's one from the Crust Brothers for Paul's Boutique:

Hey Ladies
"The Ballroom Blitz" by Sweet
"Party Time" by Kurtis Blow
"Holy Ghost" by the Bar-Kays
"Shake Your Pants" by Cameo
"Pumpin' It Up" by P-Funk All Stars
"Jungle Boogie" by Kool & the Gang
"Machine Gun" by The Commodores
"Jazzy Sensation" by Afrika Bambaataa
"Change Le Beat/B-Side" by Fab 5 Freddy
"Come Let Me Love You" by Jeanette "Lady" Day
"Heartbreaker", & "So Ruff, So Tuff" by Zapp & Roger
"Ain't It Funky Now", & "Funky President" by James Brown
"Hey DJ" by Malcolm McLaren & the World Famous Supreme Team
"High Powered Rap" by Disco Dave & the Force of the Five MC's (Crash Crew)


Real genius shit going on there.
Hell, you might as well defend Puffy and Hammer while your at it.
[Edited 4/14/09 15:00pm]

with that many sources going into one song i think you're making my argument for me.

also, are you seriously trying to argue that public enemy stole from themselves by sampling their own song?

these songs sound nothing like the quoted sources, so what exactly have they stolen? texture?

i mentioned the artists in my list specifically because all of them are guilty of borrowing entire riffs and melodies from previous artist, uncredited. jimi and dylan, in particular, took entire songs and put new lyrics on them.

[Edited 4/14/09 15:04pm]
[Edited 4/14/09 15:06pm]

i don't think i'm smart enough for this thread. i'm sorry, folks.

Accujack said:

And Grandmaster Flash, Dj Yoda and a whole host of people engaged in the breakbeat scene and it's spin offs?
[Edited 4/14/09 15:05pm]

stanleylieber said:

Those are unnecessary words when used in conjunction with other "big" words. One or two words like that in a story are okay, but come on. It's like the writer just got this big position over at Pitchfork so now he feels like he has to overdo it to impress his writer peers.

It's like I was telling my friend the other day who is similarly like this writer - it's okay to use the word "sans" when writing, but PLEASE don't be a fuckhead and speak that term. (He said something like "I'm here sans my wife." Just fucking saying "I'm here without my wife" you pretentious fuck.

berniejobs said:

i don't know what to say, man, it just didn't stand out to me.

stanleylieber said:

stanleylieber, why do I feel like you ARE the reviewer in question? Is your real name Jess?

stanleylieber said:

Am I?



How sad it is that they had to sample from one of their own songs from the same album.



Pieces of music lifted directly from the actual recordings. You can easily pick out the parts that they have stolen if you are familiar with the originals.



I'm sure that every artist has, at one point or another in their career, borrowed too heavily from another's work, but again, it is world's apart from directly stealing from someone's actual recording.
If I'm not mistaken, these albums were made before clearance costs were paid for copyrighted material, which makes it all the more pathetic.

stanleylieber said:

I read a lot of reviews that are filled with "big" and unnecesary words like that. And usually the words don't stand out to me either, mainly because I have a decent vocabulary and I also use context clues to quickly scan through an artcile.

But with this particular article, because I'm a big Prince fan and was really interested in getting into the review, I wanted to do more than just speed-read it. So I found myself with "dictionary.com" open in a separate window, checking the definition of every word I was unsure about. It's not that's I'm stupid, but it's that I care. Haha.
[Edited 4/14/09 15:22pm]

berniejobs said:

i've never submitted anything to pitchfork but i do read their site. i think they usually do a pretty good job with prince. they mostly don't review things they consider to be irredeemable crap.

in my view you want your review sources to be highly opinionated. everybody knows what to expect from pitchfork, so you can gauge something pretty well by comparing what you think of pitchfork with the text of an actual review.

Accujack said:

i just think you're blowing a lot of shit at these guys without acknowledging the artistic element in how they used sampling to build completely unrelated songs. fine, you think sampling is stealing. fine, you're okay with a musician quoting another song so long as they use a classical musical instrument to do it.

stanleylieber said:

I agree with you that if Pitchfork didn't think it was good music or a good artist to begin with then they wouldn't even review it. They hold a pretty good standard on what they review and how. Which is why I do read a lot of their reviews.

But therein probably lies the paradox for this reviewer. How much can he say about Lotusflow3r that isn't obvious or hasn't been said before. And he's gotta fill up and entire review with his words. So, to make it more interesting he jumbles it up with all those big words, which to me are just filler. (Filler - like the song "4ever")