2elijah said:

OK, why the hell is Prince using the same Cher "I believe in life after love" voice effect that all those other r&b types today are using?! Prince's asset is his voice and he's using gimmicks that aren't even smart or that good and are the same as the kids today who are recording. It totally smells of pandering.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Well I think he should bother bc/ some people do like it like me & several other people. Everyone likes diff stuff & that's ok. There are some songs that I don't like that other people do. Just b/c Prince or whoever else makes a song u don't like doesn't mean everyone else won't like it too.

nosajd said:

I'd hate to think that 30 is young enough to have fallen into the trap of the horrid state of today's popular music industry but that's probably the case.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

sure buddy

tricky99 said:

I think you are so confused, some dislike some of his newer work not because any of the ugly thinly veiled racial unsecurities you harbor, but becasue the of the "MUSIC" not the label "RnB" you want to stick on it.
Can you can honestly say his music is as creative, inovative and original even when borrowing huge chunks from other artists now as he was when he was younger?
Please, the very premise of MNPLSOUND is not to be original or creative, but to rehash, pander and chase succesfull trends like he has for the last 15-20 years.
[Edited 4/2/09 20:40pm]

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Different strokes for different folks Supa. I am not just talking about now, but his catalogue of r&b classics. I'm not worried if he's putting on r&b classics like he did 15 - 20 years ago. The point is, every now and then when he sings his classic r&b live, he does it well, and the fact that when I want to hear a Prince r&b classic, like "Adore", "How Come You Don't Call Me Anymore", just to name a few, I can do that. I don't have to wait until he puts out an r&b track today and hope it becomes a major hit for me to like it. If I like it, then that'a fine with me. If it's not an out-of-the-ball park hit, then so be it. I don't care what some billboard or other music chart says. They don't choose my music for me.

Secondly, many of his songs like "Shh" starts off with a nice r&b flavor, only to bring in blues/rock solo midway to the end. That's what I like about many of his songs, he could mix various flavors into one, and that does it for me.
As far as people needing to drop the myth about non-blacks not liking r&b, that was not stated in my post. I have stated several times, we are individuals with different tastes, so you cannot tell me that just because you don't consider his more recent r&b tracks as amazing as in the past, doesn't mean I may think it's not. Everyone hears a different tune in a song, whether it's r&b, rock, jazz or blues.
[Edited 4/2/09 18:43pm]

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

That is your opinion, I don't see it "your way", because we both have our individual tastes for what type of Prince music we like.

tricky99 said:

Well said and true.

2elijah said:

this thread starts from a racist premise that you are tacitly defending by arguing against the targets of the original post -- even if you don't feel the same way as tricky99.

tricky99 puts across all kinds of assumptions that are frankly unfounded. sure, there are people who fit her description, but none of them are the ones she's arguing with in this thread.

nobody is telling her what her views are. if only she would extend the same courtesy. but she's telling everyone who doesn't share her views that there is something fundamentally wrong with their perspective and then heavily implying that this means they are racist, simply because... well, it's not really clear what she's on about because the people she is arguing with in this thread have said repeatedly that they don't hold the views she insists that they hold.

i mean, what do you say to that sort of thing?

the only sensible response is to walk away. but, the topic has been creeping up in a lot of threads lately. the 'mplsound defense squad' has sewn the implication that people who don't like the album are racist all over the org.

it's absolutely silly.

there are a lot of black people who have worked with prince who have expressed the exact same disillusionment with his modern work, for exactly the same reasons. presumably, those black people are not anti-black racists. i think preconceptions about race are coloring tricky99's interpretation of this situation every bit as much as race supposedly colors the general reaction to 'mplsound.'

in any case, i have a hard time categorizing more than a couple of songs at most off of 'mplsound' as r&b in the first place. it's certainly not what prince has stated his aim was. this was supposed to be 'controversy, pt. 2,' right? the minneapolis sound, as indicated by the title of the album. the minneapolis sound was not r&b. it was a hybrid of virtually every form of popular music that emerged between wwii and the early 1980s. a couple of songs on the album seem to be trying to emulate modern radio r&b hits, which is what people are complaining about. the other songs are different styles entirely.

prince had mass appeal because he crossed all lines. he was a collage of influences -- racial, musical, etc.

a lot of people became fans of that early prince, and indeed, the early prince is the reason anybody even knows he exists. because he was interesting. radical. he advanced a post-racial message in a time when black artists were not prominently featured on white radio (in fact, his early work did much to change this). sure, it was disappointing to a lot of people when he receded into a static, old-fashioned, increasingly belligerent 'black' identity. not because prince fans dislike black people (considering that many prince fans were and are black people), but because prince used to represent transcending racial boundaries and existing as a human being instead of taking refuge in the divisive construct of an exclusive racial identity. he became popular because he was an enigma, and then he decided to shatter the enigma by solidifying into a static identity.

that's a lot less interesting to a lot of people. not because they're racist, but because it's not what attracted them to him in the first place. it's like if you open up a box of crayons and for some reason they're all 'flesh colored.' well, what if you wanted to color a strawberry that day? your options just became a lot more limited.

unfortunately, even this isn't a real answer for the argument 'r&b detractors' are racist. because the argument isn't really about racism. the phantom specter of prince 'the rocker' is just that; prince has never and will never make straight white rock music. 'lotusflow3r's heaviest rock songs are jimi hendrix pastiches. you know, a black guy. all these square white folks just pining away for prince to make real black music again, right?

is that really the argument you guys ('you guys' in this thread -- please don't misunderstand) trying to make?

because it doesn't make any sense.

rock n roll is black music too.

there are even some pretty awesome japanese metal bands.

everyone on this board is a fan of prince. even bart.

in the interests of establishing r&b credentials, maybe we could share our favorite prince straight r&b/soul songs. here are some of my favorites:

adonis and bathsheba
adore
crucial
dark
do me baby
get blue
open book
satisfied
shhh (yes, guitars are sometimes played in r&b; see the beatles' influences)
slow love

you can't fuck with these songs.
[Edited 4/2/09 20:24pm]

i also love prince's jazzier stuff (particularly the run of released and unreleased jazzy material from '91-'93). it's interesting nobody is bringing that up as a litmus test for race. i'd be willing to bet a lot of people that are getting fingers waved at them for not liking 'mplsound' are big fans of some of prince's jazz explorations.

or is jazz 'white' now too.
[Edited 4/2/09 20:30pm]

stanleylieber said:

Very good points,
Its the pot calling the kettle white, it seems that the music Hendrix, one of the most influential guitarists of all time and Jazz, like Rock, music created by blacks,.....is too white for some people here.

Some need to try and be a little more critical of your thoughts.
[Edited 4/2/09 20:52pm]

Question: Was Jimmi's music praised on its merits -- best rock -- during his time or was he recognized because he was a "black" rock guitarist?

jill4life said:

fucked if i know, but i grew up in a small town where i took beatings in high school for dating black girls and the guys who used to attack me in the parking lot were all obsessed with jimi and led zepplin.

my take on it is that good music transcends race even for racists.

tricky99 said:

So what do you make of orgers who love R&B & soul music and STILL aren't feeling some of Prince's music in that direction?

Yes, some people maybe obscuring their dislike of a genre by hiding it behind an expressed dislike of Prince's music.

However, does that mean that EVERY criticism of Prince's music in that direction can simply be dismissed as "you just don't like R&B / soul?"

How does that leave space for legitimate criticism of Prince's music even within the context of a love for R&B / soul music? Don't you think that exists?


Personally, I love R&B / soul... in fact I'm not a big fan of rock, and while I like Prince's rock music I wouldn't venture to compare Prince's "rock" to other "rock" music because I don't really have that frame of reference. I just dig Prince's "rock" music.

As for R&B, it's a little different... I have a better frame of reference for R&B / soul and hip hop and I can say that some of Prince's latest aren't all that within those critical contexts, critically speaking. The music is top-notch, but the lyrics are not. Much of the lyrics comes off as cliched, corny, and faux-hip... the way old people are on TV giving each other "pounds" / "dap" years after it was done in the hood. Some of Prince's attempts at being hip come off to me that way, and he can't hide behind the R&B / hip hop shield because within the world of R&B or hip hop we have standards too! And Prince ain't always hittin them.

nosajd said:

OK

Name your top 10 favorite albums of all time
Name your favorite singers/bands/groups.

Let's start there

I'm a 39 year old African American, living in Mississippi, a state with some of the worst racism of American history, and I love Lotusflow3r and MPLSound equally. Yet, I also feel that I am in that rare space of Prince fans who loved his output during the eighties and love his output today equally. I teach college kids, have a close relationship with my step-kids, and coordinate two open mic poetry venues, so I have a pretty good idea of what's on today's radio and what people between the ages of fifteen and twenty-five are purchasing, and it does not move me enough to be displeased with what Prince has done since 2000. When I was hearing how bad Planet Earth was, I looked around, and all else did not move me. What does that mean? Do I not have good taste? My record collection is filled with everything from James Brown to Def Leopard to Muddy Waters to John Cafferty and the Beaver Brown Band as well as Sam Cook. So when I hear that Prince's latest output is lacking. My question is always the same--lacking to what??? If I want to hear 1999 I'll play 1999. I'm not saying that I know funk music any more or better than anyone else, but to call "Dance 4 Me" or "Ol' Skool Company" tried or weak is just baffling to me. But, as I said, I am in rare space because Prince moves me as much today as when I sneaked to where the "bad kids who didn't go to church" hanged and got my ear full of Dirty Mind.

1725topp said:

i wish i still felt it. i like the new albums more than anything since 'trc' (and since 'tge' before that).

And I wish I knew my his work still moves me. Most of my college friends have long since stopped listening to his work. All I can say is that his music still touches my soul, and his lyrics still give me pause to think. He still turns a phrase. Most work by most poets misses, but their jewels keep you going. Same for me with Prince. I have always like his metaphysical musings, even when I didn't completely agree with them. But he still is able to make me laugh, think, and cry. But, as I said, I don't know why.

tricky99 said:

1,000 times right on this!

NuPwrSoul said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

MPLSound works for me. 'U're Gonna C Me', is a fave, even though I've had a version for a few years. 'Valentina' is a blast, with a subject only Prince would enshrine in vinyl. 'Chocolate Box' is just fun. 'Ol' Skool Company would've worked on 'Musicology' but would've been lyrically redundant. 'No More Candy 4 U', another shot of creative brilliance. (There'll Never Be) Another Like Me,' isn't exactly new but obviously it's something Prince likes to do and does it better here than he has in the past.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Does that "genius" have to be on display on every release?
Why does he have to have that pressure on him?
Why can't he just release music?

Was it Picasso's duty that every painting be a $50 million masterpiece?

Maybe Prince just likes to have his brand of fun. I'm there.

WetDream said:

I figured you were asking too much.

SUPRMAN said:

prince is the dude taking shots at less creative folk in some of these very same songs.

which way does he want it? is he 'the best' or just a little fun?

Whitnail said:

But I can hear that anytime I get ready. I enjoy new songs to wear out.

emesem said:

Does Prince really owe the world all that?
What if Prince doesn't want to mix genres incessantly? That can be just as limiting as a Linn drum machine.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

When has that myth ever existed?
In the 50's and 60's parents tried to keep their white kids from listening to "race music." They'd get together and guess what? Listen to R&B.

Metalhead or Goth you wouldn't expect to listen to R&B but just about anyone else white, I would expect to have R&B on their IPod.
R&B is, I think, very American. Everyone knows in a dark room, you're putting on R&B, not country.
[Edited 4/2/09 23:25pm]

stanleylieber said:

Slow Love is R & B but I don't like it.

An R & B list would be a long one.
But I just like Prince. It's easier to just make Prince his own genre.
Just because I like MPLSound a lot, doesn't mean I appreciate the guitar in 'Boom' any less. He should have done that with 'The Morning After', just play on . . .
But what I hear is more expectations than racism.
Prince could do 'When The Lights Go Down', corner bar R&B all day if he wanted to. Releasing it is something else.
Prince didn't seem to thing better of 'When the Lights Go Down' than to release it on 'The Vault.' An album he clearly wasn't interested in seeing succeed.

My perspective looks like this - 1524 Prince tracks on my IPod (several concerts not on the Ipod and a few tracks.) My playlist of Essential Prince is 196 tracks, some of which are live performances and bootlegs.
So out of of 10.04 GB of Prince, only 1.17 GB rates as songs I like/love and in heavy rotation.
There's a few songs I won't listen to unless I'm playing the album it's on - 'Jughead' of course, comes immediately to mind. lol
But if Prince wants to do adult urban, I don't care. I didn't appreciate 'Planet Earth,' easily the worst official Prince album but he's bounced back nicely.

stanleylieber said:

Doesn't that immediately bring to mind 'The Rainbow Children'?
He ruined a masterpiece . . . but I love it live.
I only care that I like MPLSound really. I've never cared whether Prince ever had a chart hit. I just liked what he did and still do.
Few like 'New Power Soul', while it's one of Top Ten Prince albums. No here has yet changed my opinion of it.