I'd ordered Lotus Flow3r/Mplsound/Elixer from cduniverse as well as having one shipped by a lovely orger (thanks Emeraldskies) But I just got this email...





I guess the CD might actually be available later but at revised price, the price I ordered it for was £15.00 including shipping.

JOYJOY said:

THANKS JOYJOY I'LL UPDATE THE OTHER THREAD WITH THIS INFO.....so many twists and turns in this story....

How can you 'discontinue' to supply an item that wasn't supplied in the first place?

TyphoonTip said:

Same thing Amazon UK said....Play.com have pulled it as well.....wonder whats up?

Very nice distribution indeed.

From the fans' perspective: Shortsighted. Shortlived.

Why cant it just be SIMPLE..... WHY?

JOYJOY said:

Because he dumped the major labels and thought to be smart and make a big buck.
Yes, he makes bucks but he forgets about some of the fans.

so untrue ..... from the beginning it was obvious it would only be released by TARGET .. everyone made his own assumptions it would be released worldwide, which was never said.

Sure, it will get an international and/or worlwide release on another label, but this Target deal was the first deal ! It's called business and there is nothing wrong with it

Prince clearly doesn't give a flying shite about fans outside the US.

piratebay exists for a reason

TyphoonTip said:

There are people outside the U.S.?

Seriously, if this is getting hung up, I'd like to help by sending some out. Was there a thread already started somewhere for this? I remember folks talking about it, but don't know if it got started. I'll search, but just in case, someone please post a link if it's handy.

Whitnail said:

For scumbags

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

This explains more about you than us.
Ethics and law are two different things.
And thus, insinuating that people using the piratebay are scumbags for not following your interpretation of the law is a very low thing without any explanation.

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

I agree. Scumbags like Prince, for making us resort to piratebay/torrents.

Well said indeed sir.

Why not try to buy it on eBay.com ?

you are able to "buy it now".... the 3cd set for about $18,

Glad a nice friend got me my copy!!! oooof grim state of affairs!

Update on Amazon.com .....

http://prince.org/msg/7/300802?pg=9

thedance said:

A lot don't ship outside the US, and the ones that say they do are notoriously unreliable.

TyphoonTip said:

Yeah, because he didn't make it available online.

udo said:

What about YOUR ethics? (And don't refer to Prince's, that's not my question.)
[Edited 4/1/09 9:26am]

Serena said:

I'm sick of this high horse attitude that assumes everyone who torrents is ethically bankrupt and that they spend their free time snatching purses from little old ladies.

To begin with, your question is impossible to answer in the way you ask, as a situation, or one person's behaviour, in this case Prince's, always dictates whether a response is an ethical one or not. People's actions DON'T exist in a vacuum and therefore ethics are NOT static. You clearly need some help with your understanding of 'ethics'.

Now READ THIS CAREFULLY. This is why Prince is creating an untenable situation for fans outside of the US. For example, my situation is as follows:

I WILL be buying the 3 CDs despite the fact it will cost me approx. $60.00 AUD. Not a cosy little $12.00 US. And who knows when I'll get it as Prince has kindly not organised distribution beyond the centre of the world.

Now the very least I should expect is that this album have all the tracks. But NO! He's conveniently (READ THIS CAREFULLY) swapped two tracks on the net release and the CD release. Leaving me the only legal option of getting this ONE ALBUM TRACK (not an out-take) "The Morning After", is by subscribing (paying $110+ AUD!). Giving me a grand total of $170+ AUD just to get the basic tracks on the albums. That is bordering on offensive.

Now, KEEP READING, The same situation applies for those who have paid the $77 US. Again, paying that ridiculous amount of money, you would @ least expect that your Album DLs would include the 1st single! But NO!

It's a disgrace. It's Prince ringing every last cent he possibly can out of the people who keep him afloat.

So to summarise; I have to decide whether it's ethically acceptable to download the albums given that: a) I WILL be buying the CD whenever I get the chance. b) When I do, it will more than TRIPLE the original price, only by virtue of the fact that I happen live outside of the US! Now I'm not going to explain the ethical implications of Prince's decision to effectively charge $77 for one album track, as that speaks for itself.

TyphoonTip said:

No, the $77 isn't for one track, it's for A YEAR long subscription to the club.
I'm sure Target wanted something exclusive to their package, don't think there'd be much sense in just offering the same thing.

I'd be more than happy to send you one of my extra copies if you still need one, PM me if interested.

Serena said:

Who mentioned Prince? Not me.
My ethics are not to quickly and only call people scumbags without any explanation. I would not ask a question afterwards.

When distribution lacks, you know the risks.
When you look at the technology and the laws and the times you can't just say 'scumbags' and pretend you're right.
A torrent tracker/indexer is not wrong.
There is no 'bad' content.
Or would you call google bad for the same reasons?

Serena said:

The club has the rest of the year to show it's value. For now the value is just the two songs mentioned and some videos, right?

Serena said:

You've missed my point. And that is:

All I want is the album ...with all the album tracks. Not too much to ask is it?
Now as I pointed out in the earlier post, the only 'legal' way to do this to buy the CD ($60 AUD) and join site ($110 AUD). Now thats $170 AUD for the complete album. I think that's a tad too expensive, don't you?

TyphoonTip said:

Yes, I do think that is expensive for the CD, which is why I offered to send you one and I meant it.

The membership is supposed to provide us some exclusive content and if we want it, it should be paid for. If $110 AUD = $77 US, then it is what it is. I understand there isn't much chance of you getting the benefit of concert tickets, but neither will a lot of people, whether in the U.S. or elsewhere. So even though all you really want right now is all the songs, you should be getting other stuff during the year for your membership fee.

My issue with the conversation was Prince being called a scumbag because of distribution problems/costs that he probably doesn't have a lot of control over. I didn't call anybody a scumbag either, just asked how someone can question someone else's ethics when they're advocating piracy, no matter the justification.

I don't believe in pirating any official releases that are still available (not just Prince), which is different than fan-taped stuff that is passed around. Unreleased demos, etc.. are another thing too. Point being, since I may have stuff that Prince wasn't compensated for, I have NO problem paying in other ways, like club memberships, buying multiple official releases, etc.. It's like, if you have stuff you haven't paid for, DON'T bitch about paying up occasionally . (btw..I'm speaking in general terms, not you specifically.)
[Edited 4/2/09 0:07am]

udo said:

Yes, I agree...if I'm understanding you correctly (sorry if I'm not, I'm tired)



No, the value right now is 3 CDs, one with an exclusive track (it is just one, correct?), released/unreleased videos & photos. You may not care about some of those items, but others do and find value in them. Some are perfectly happy with the download only CD versions, so it's definitely more than '2 tracks & some videos' for them.
[Edited 4/2/09 0:06am]

Serena said:

Look we're just going 'round in circles here. I can't explain my case any better than I have.

Thanks, genuinely, for your offer for the CDs, but unfortunately I have pre-ordered them @ a 'reasonably reputable' CD store @ home??! But as for when they'll actually get them, ...well who knows?

As for Prince not having any control over distribution. Surely you don't believe that!? Everything he has done, distribution wise, since his departure from WB has been intricately planned. He's even stated himself that with these new CDs '..The gatekeepers have to change'. So he knows exactly what's going on. And anyway, it's not like there's a little glitch in the OS distribution. It actually DOES NOT EXIST. There is no OS distribution at all!! It's Target or nada. So there'll be a lot of middle-man importers making a lot of $ by inflating the price and selling online or to local OS retailers.

Pretty sad state of affairs. Would you be so zen about it if you were in our position?

Oh, & as far as concert tickets go, Australia is @ the bottom of the food chain. 2 visits in 30 years of touring. So I don't think that anywhere in the US is quite on that level.

I'm more than 'ethically' comfortable with my actions.

P.S. I never called you, or insinuated that you were, a scumbag. Not me.
[Edited 4/2/09 0:17am]

TyphoonTip said:

Ok, well the offer still stands if it takes too long.

As for the scumbag thing, I know you didn't and didn't mean that you called me that, sorry if it read that way. The earlier posts got crossed up between you, me & Udo, so I was replying 'in general'.

Oops, forgot about the distribution part. Have you or anyone else bought something that was in a similar type of major U.S. retailer exclusive release before? Just curious how the distribution was handled for those.
[Edited 4/2/09 0:33am]

Serena said:

They charged me a deposit. So I'm kinda stuck.

I bought a Paul McCartney album relatively recently, and from memory that was distributed via Starbucks( ) in the US. A friend also bought a recent Springsteen album that was also distributed via a chain in the US, maybe Target, not sure. But both albums had official (conventional) releases organised in other countries. That's exactly what hasn't happened here.

The thing is, Prince didn't even have to do that. I respect the fact that he wanted to 'change the gatekeepers', which to him obviously meant keeping away from the traditional distribution and retail companies. Fine. Why then couldn't his people have struck a similar deal with a company that has outlets all over Europe, and similarly in Austral-Asia?

It makes no sense. The only conclusion that can be drawn is that he actually only really cares about his US audience, and that's sad.