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PrintableBrofie said: stanleylieber said: eh, your opinion. their's equally valid. this isn't an argument that can be won. I dont care enough to argue. [Edited 4/3/09 11:03am] you cared enough to dis!  it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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mschirmer said: Taking the Revolution out the Prince formula was like taking butter and sugar out of a cookie recipe.
It's obvious that Prince alone can't make a great record. It's been proven. Look at the last 20 years. Sadly, Prince's ego is too big to admit something like that. The Revolution will always be the greatest backing band this earth has ever known! gee does the revolution get as much praise as prince's work on the undertaker film and music? hmmm who backed him up on that? OH YEAH SONNY T AND MICHAEL B ..who's on the new lotusflow3r album? OH YEAH SONNY T AND MICHAEL B and this album is getting mad raves from his fans and critics. the last album any memeber of the revolution was on? OH YEAH THAT BULLSHIT CALLED PLANET EARTH .. revolution best backing band he's ever had  damn that made me laugh so hardman, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
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Brofie said: Man, I wish these less informed fans would get over the Revolution and the nostalgia tip. IT is only because they are in the movie and that image is more lasting. If not for Purple Rain, they would have jsut been an old lineup for former Prince sidemen. Ther eis nothing special about them relative to the more recent bands Prince has used. THe Musicology NPG was one of the best - if not THE best he ever had. At any rate, they crush the post-Dez Dickerson version of the Revolution.
Wendy and Lisa are so grossly overrated that it is comical now. FOr years, people were crediting them with writing the song, Purple Rain! Ridiculous. I am so sick of it. Your just running off at the mouth with your foot in it. You sound like someone who just became a fan a couple of years ago | |
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TwiliteKid said: Brofie said: I think Prince takes lessons from those legaends that he admires: Hendrix, James Brown, Santana, SLy, George CLinton, Joni Mitchell, etc. FromMiles Davis, I think he is adopting a practice of trying to keep changing and not get old. Miles used different bands and genres from the 40s to the 90s. He surrounded himself with great msuicians for the particular era that he was in and did what he was doing at that time - and then moved on to the next thing. As such, he is responsible for many of the innovations of jazz. He stayed relevant for 50 years doing this. He never looked back - even though he took a lot of heat when he did something like Bitches Brew and his core audience wanted straight ahead acoustic jazz from the 50s and 60s. Prince doesnt look back much so far either. He keeps new adn fresh talent around him - acutally changing his bands more frequently than Miles did. Digging up the Purple Rain Revolution was be a step backwards. Why would he do it? He doesnt want to become a cliche who has to do Lets Go Crazy for the rest of his life every time he appaears in public. He had Wendy and Lisa play the Brit Awards a few years ago - thats enough. He doesnt need to be doing a full reunion gig. Then he would become one of those old bands, like Kajagoogoo, that VH1 was running after on that Reunited show. I always want to see teh Prince that defies time and manages to stay ahead of it. I want to see the 50 year old PRince who looks and sounds better than the 25 year old Prince. He cant keep doing that surrounded by aging, overweight ex backup players. I feel like you haven't' been paying attention at all. What is Mplsound if not an exercise in looking back? And I think its safe to say that Prince plays Let's Go Crazy (and Purple Rain, and a whole bunch of stuff from the Revolution era) more often than he doesn't. and he needs 2 stop doing that shit cause it's tired!!! man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
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L4OATheOriginal said: TwiliteKid said: I feel like you haven't' been paying attention at all. What is Mplsound if not an exercise in looking back? And I think its safe to say that Prince plays Let's Go Crazy (and Purple Rain, and a whole bunch of stuff from the Revolution era) more often than he doesn't. and he needs 2 stop doing that shit cause it's tired!!! Indeed, it would be nice. But Prince has fallen victim to something that afflicts all artists once they reach a certain stage. He wants to keep playing arenas, but the only way to do that is to appeal to the widest group of fans (both casual and hardcore). And in order to that, he's got to play the hits. Personally, I'd like to see Prince do something similar to what the Stones did a few years back: Multiple nights in one city, different size venues on each night, and the set list to match (Arena = hits, theatre = new stuff, nuggets from the catalogue). | |
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TwiliteKid said: L4OATheOriginal said: and he needs 2 stop doing that shit cause it's tired!!! Indeed, it would be nice. But Prince has fallen victim to something that afflicts all artists once they reach a certain stage. He wants to keep playing arenas, but the only way to do that is to appeal to the widest group of fans (both casual and hardcore). And in order to that, he's got to play the hits. Personally, I'd like to see Prince do something similar to what the Stones did a few years back: Multiple nights in one city, different size venues on each night, and the set list to match (Arena = hits, theatre = new stuff, nuggets from the catalogue). i could go with that ..c u at the theatre  man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
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OldFriends4Sale said: datdude said: Dream Factory as a track is way overrated, so is Visions (Lisa's piano solo). So not sure how CLASSIC that as an album would have been.
Where are U getting these ratings from? Visions was just a piano solo intro? 2 song out of about 19-20 Power Fantastic & In A Large Room With No Lights included perhaps it would help to have a full track list, (i hear Dorothy Parker, SOTT, would've been on it) i love Power Fantastic and I haven't heard In A Large Room, but based on what would've been the "title track" and Visions, both highly spoken of, i'm not impressed | |
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july 18th 1986 configuration
1. VISIONS 2. NEVEAH NI ECALP A 3. DREAM FACTORY 4. TRAIN 5. THE BALLAD OF DOROTHY PARKER 6. IT 7. STRANGE RELATIONSHIP 8. STARFISH & COFFEE 9. INTERLUDE 10. SLOW LOVE 11. I COULD NEVER TAKE THE PLACE OF YOUR MAN 12. SIGN O' THE TIMES 13. A PLACE IN HEAVEN 14. CRYSTAL BALL 15. THE CROSS 16. LAST HEART 17. WITNESS 4 THE PROSECUTION 18. MOVIE STAR 19. ALL MY DREAMS it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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TwiliteKid said: OldFriends4Sale said: There are credits? (in the cd case?) Where are the credits I'm just saying we don't know, L & W sang and played on some other songs on Planet Earth they weren't credited 4 Try reading my post. The credits are on the site, not in the CD. What makes you thnik W&L are on tracks on Planet Earth that they aren't credited for? I've seen you make similar incorrect assertions around here without backing up your claims. Care to provide a source this time? This is the discussion your refering to: http://prince.org/msg/7/298696 I've seen you make similar incorrect assertions around here without backing up your claims. I'll patiently await the link to the other incorrect assertions I made around here...  [Edited 4/3/09 18:35pm] | |
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datdude said: OldFriends4Sale said: Where are U getting these ratings from? Visions was just a piano solo intro? 2 song out of about 19-20 Power Fantastic & In A Large Room With No Lights included perhaps it would help to have a full track list, (i hear Dorothy Parker, SOTT, would've been on it) i love Power Fantastic and I haven't heard In A Large Room, but based on what would've been the "title track" and Visions, both highly spoken of, i'm not impressed You can't really judge an album you haven't heard Can I assume you like Sign o the Times? An album which more than half the song came from Dream Factory | |
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80spfantwp said: there may have been a time I wopuld have agreed wu=ith your sentiment. But no, I dont think so.
Let me explain: there are several factors that influence Prince's music- only he knows the true extent of those. He's older, political/ religious are different, technology is different. Mindsets of all mentioned are different. As ppl get older, fans included, IMHO we all look back at those special-to-us days and see them as 'the golden age', in this caseof Prince's output. I'd be very surpirised if Wendy, Lisas, Prince etc. regrouped only to face the inevitable backlash from some that,'they are desparate...not as good as.....' We all know what we as fans can be like. IMO Prince can't satisfy such a diverse fan base of 30yrs no matter what he tries...just look at the present reviews to see that. The irony is that AT THE TIME many revolution albums were by no meand hailed as classics for several yrs after. Some still aren't by some.... Ditto. Twice. Verb for Verb (save for the typos )
There was a reason Prince went solo for SOTT. But I think it's possible they could enjoy it, sans fanfare, enough to maybe just overcome and make some good music. Timeless? For us, mmmmaybe. Could be a train wreck too. Did Wendy and Lisa help P reach inside for 'Reflection'? ********************************************
...Ur standing in the epicenter, Let the shaking begin... |
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SirPsycho said: padawan said: It would be wonderful if Prince reached out to former band mates in the spirit of reconciliation. But I don't think he's ready. Listening to his music, the emotional tone in his work, I don't hear much love and understanding. I hear wishful thinking, evasion, ego. And his ego is so monstrous now I doubt a collaboration would do any good.
No, what Prince needs to do is put his ego on a diet. Stop listening to yes men, stop feeding on his own press clippings, and stop relying on celebrity for a sense of self worth. Then, he might get in touch with his humanity again, and start speaking from the heart. Only then will Prince music come to life. before everyone attacks you, i agree about what his music today reveals. i dont feel he's completely out of touch with his humanity, but his art does hint towards an imbalance of a peace he wants and a peace he truly has Funny... within what I'd consider the ego part is a wounded would-be father, twice divorced former gigolo who's getting his groove on, thinking more about societal issues while reaching for answers via his spirituality. (How do you speak more from the heart than Friend Lover Sister Mother Wife or Holy River??) So his spiritual relationship--which most of us on here don't seem to care for--may indicate the quest to find that balance (again?). Dreamer, Dear Mr. Man, etc. are surely another quest in terms of trying to express himself more overtly within the black American experience. So, to me, he's BEEN trying to get in touch with his humanity, which includes the fun of those good ol' "International Lover" days (he is 50..midlife?) I don't think he's relying on celebrity for self worth anymore than he did when he was 24. Making music is what he's relying on. Not to become a star, but to ensure he doesn't lose himself.  ********************************************
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JumpUpOnThe1 said: 80spfantwp said: there may have been a time I wopuld have agreed wu=ith your sentiment. But no, I dont think so.
Let me explain: there are several factors that influence Prince's music- only he knows the true extent of those. He's older, political/ religious are different, technology is different. Mindsets of all mentioned are different. As ppl get older, fans included, IMHO we all look back at those special-to-us days and see them as 'the golden age', in this caseof Prince's output. I'd be very surpirised if Wendy, Lisas, Prince etc. regrouped only to face the inevitable backlash from some that,'they are desparate...not as good as.....' We all know what we as fans can be like. IMO Prince can't satisfy such a diverse fan base of 30yrs no matter what he tries...just look at the present reviews to see that. The irony is that AT THE TIME many revolution albums were by no meand hailed as classics for several yrs after. Some still aren't by some.... Ditto. Twice. Verb for Verb (save for the typos )
There was a reason Prince went solo for SOTT. But I think it's possible they could enjoy it, sans fanfare, enough to maybe just overcome and make some good music. Timeless? For us, mmmmaybe. Could be a train wreck too. Did Wendy and Lisa help P reach inside for 'Reflection'? But even SOTT wasn't a solo effort (even if you don't add the credits) Most of the album came from the Crystal Ball idea But more than half of the SOTT songs came from the Dream Factory Project and his collaboration with Revolution members: Sheila E Dr Fink Susannah & Wendy Melvoin Eric Leeds & Lisa Coleman more specifically Power Fantastic itself was a song constructed by Lisa called Carousel, and Prince heard it and wanted to use it. Engineer Susan Rogers talked about the recording experience as one of the most intimate momemts for her The whole Revolution, Eric on flute, Atlanta Bliss on trumpet, and how they did that song in one take, and that's what we hear on the release. | |
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Ifsixwuz9 said: No. Sorry but just no. Prince went funk/rock religious and W&L went depressing pop-rock/folk angst. Mix all that up together and I hear clusterfuck.
 "That...magic, the start of something revolutionary-the Minneapolis Sound, we should cherish it and not punish prince for not being able to replicate it."-Dreamshaman32 | |
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muleFunk said: IMO the Revolution was OVERRATED anyway.
Outside of 1999 and Purple Rain they had two ok albums. I know to some that's outrageous. The better band and music came out of the SOTT/Lovesexy bands. "That...magic, the start of something revolutionary-the Minneapolis Sound, we should cherish it and not punish prince for not being able to replicate it."-Dreamshaman32 | |
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NuPwrSoul said: muleFunk said: IMO the Revolution was OVERRATED anyway.
Outside of 1999 and Purple Rain they had two ok albums. I know to some that's outrageous. The better band and music came out of the SOTT/Lovesexy bands.  it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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stanleylieber said: NuPwrSoul said: lol! it's all good. "That...magic, the start of something revolutionary-the Minneapolis Sound, we should cherish it and not punish prince for not being able to replicate it."-Dreamshaman32 | |
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OldFriends4Sale said: TwiliteKid said: Try reading my post. The credits are on the site, not in the CD. What makes you thnik W&L are on tracks on Planet Earth that they aren't credited for? I've seen you make similar incorrect assertions around here without backing up your claims. Care to provide a source this time? This is the discussion your refering to: http://prince.org/msg/7/298696 I've seen you make similar incorrect assertions around here without backing up your claims. I'll patiently await the link to the other incorrect assertions I made around here...
[Edited 4/3/09 18:35pm] What exactly was the point of this post? You still haven't provided a source for your claims about Wendy and Lisa and Planet Earth, and you've repeated the suggestion that I've made similar statements, without providing an example of those. Hilarious. [Edited 4/4/09 10:01am] | |
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I would like to see Revolution plus Andre and Dez performing together again while everyone is now still alive and healthy. I mean ppl are not getting younger and I don't want to hear Prince's mouth 20 years from now saying I wished that I had got the Revolution together when he can easily get the thing going now and everyone from Wendy and Lisa and Brownmark are willing to do it with him again. But the ball is in Prince's court and Prince need to stop being so stubborn and put his ego aside and get with his former bandmembers.
I also wondered too if Prince and Bobby Z had a fallout? It is weird that he didn't name him as his best drummers and he was hislongest bummer. The Z might not be his best drummer but Prince had name his name in the past, post-Revolution years for recognition. [Edited 4/4/09 9:24am] | |
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stanleylieber said: july 18th 1986 configuration
1. VISIONS 2. NEVEAH NI ECALP A 3. DREAM FACTORY 
4. TRAIN 5. THE BALLAD OF DOROTHY PARKER
6. IT
7. STRANGE RELATIONSHIP
8. STARFISH & COFFEE
9. INTERLUDE 10. SLOW LOVE
11. I COULD NEVER TAKE THE PLACE OF YOUR MAN
12. SIGN O' THE TIMES
13. A PLACE IN HEAVEN 14. CRYSTAL BALL
15. THE CROSS
16. LAST HEART
17. WITNESS 4 THE PROSECUTION 18. MOVIE STAR
19. ALL MY DREAMS thanks for doing this because I never remember what was on Dream Factory. Well all of the songs were released on some other project. Of the stuff that's left... "Witness 4 the Prosecution" is the only thing definitely worth getting in my opinion, maybe "Train". The rest can stay buried in the vault collecting dust for all I care. 
. [Edited 4/4/09 9:29am] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll play it first and tell you what it is later. -Miles Davis- | |
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Ifsixwuz9 said: stanleylieber said: july 18th 1986 configuration
1. VISIONS 2. NEVEAH NI ECALP A 3. DREAM FACTORY
4. TRAIN 5. THE BALLAD OF DOROTHY PARKER
6. IT
7. STRANGE RELATIONSHIP
8. STARFISH & COFFEE
9. INTERLUDE 10. SLOW LOVE
11. I COULD NEVER TAKE THE PLACE OF YOUR MAN
12. SIGN O' THE TIMES
13. A PLACE IN HEAVEN 14. CRYSTAL BALL
15. THE CROSS
16. LAST HEART
17. WITNESS 4 THE PROSECUTION 18. MOVIE STAR
19. ALL MY DREAMS thanks for doing this because I never remember what was on Dream Factory. Well all of the songs were released on some other project. Of the stuff that's left... "Witness 4 the Prosecution" is the only thing definitely worth getting in my opinion, maybe "Train". The rest can stay buried in the vault collecting dust for all I care.
. [Edited 4/4/09 9:29am] There are actually more songs(outtakes) for the Dream Factory project that are not listed above: Teacher Teacher, Ball(turned into Eye No) Power Fantastic, In A Large Room With No Light are just a few | |
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"I mean..cant ya leave it alone?"-The Kid/Purple Rain | |
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OldFriends4Sale said: Ifsixwuz9 said: thanks for doing this because I never remember what was on Dream Factory. Well all of the songs were released on some other project. Of the stuff that's left... "Witness 4 the Prosecution" is the only thing definitely worth getting in my opinion, maybe "Train". The rest can stay buried in the vault collecting dust for all I care.
. [Edited 4/4/09 9:29am] There are actually more songs(outtakes) for the Dream Factory project that are not listed above: Teacher Teacher, Ball(turned into Eye No) Power Fantastic, In A Large Room With No Light are just a few according to wendy and lisa they made "hundreds" of songs during this period, but were not working on a specific album concept. 'dream factory' is something prince came up with and tinkered around with. there were at least three distinct, temporary tracklists. the one above is the final tracklist that was mastered. then prince decided to disband the revolution and scrapped the album. it's time for a new direction / it's time for jazz to die | |
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L4OATheOriginal said: mschirmer said: Taking the Revolution out the Prince formula was like taking butter and sugar out of a cookie recipe.
It's obvious that Prince alone can't make a great record. It's been proven. Look at the last 20 years. Sadly, Prince's ego is too big to admit something like that. The Revolution will always be the greatest backing band this earth has ever known! gee does the revolution get as much praise as prince's work on the undertaker film and music? hmmm who backed him up on that? OH YEAH SONNY T AND MICHAEL B ..who's on the new lotusflow3r album? OH YEAH SONNY T AND MICHAEL B and this album is getting mad raves from his fans and critics. the last album any memeber of the revolution was on? OH YEAH THAT BULLSHIT CALLED PLANET EARTH .. revolution best backing band he's ever had damn that made me laugh so hardDude you're a jack ass and clearly this is hitting a little to close to home!!! GET YOUR INFORMATION STRAIGHT. | |
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OldFriends4Sale said:[quote] Brofie said: Man, I wish these less informed fans would get over the Revolution and the nostalgia tip. IT is only because they are in the movie and that image is more lasting. If not for Purple Rain, they would have jsut been an old lineup for former Prince sidemen. Ther eis nothing special about them relative to the more recent bands Prince has used. THe Musicology NPG was one of the best - if not THE best he ever had. At any rate, they crush the post-Dez Dickerson version of the Revolution.
Wendy and Lisa are so grossly overrated that it is comical now. FOr years, people were crediting them with writing the song, Purple Rain! Ridiculous. I am so sick of it. Ok, so I for one am not on a nostalgia trip! I just like good music. I go to hundreds of shows a year and I'm spending my 10th year at Coachella. I'm not looking for Prince & the Revolution to get back together because I want to relive my youth???! That's a hilarious and DESPERATE assumption. I like good music. Prince doesn't make good music without the Revolution(for me personally). I idolized Prince for years and even hung on for a good 15 years until I just couldn't live the lie anymore. I moved on to music that is actually entertaining(for me). I listen to a Prince record these days and get a sick pit in my stomach(notice the word "my" and not "your") wondering how and the hell this man can be such a genius yet so clueless? His music stinks(to me) right now and a lot of music critics will tell you the same thing. Sure, there are glimmers of his brilliance throughout his work, but one or two kick ass songs on a record of 31 songs DOESN'T CUT IT for this music fan. I have to say that I don't like Wendy and Lisa on their own, but together with Prince it worked. Saying that Wendy and Lisa's contribution is overrated just clearly tells me that you A: Either have a personal stake in the new Prince or B: You just don't know anything about music in general What I think is so crazy about the Prince protectors on this site is that if Prince did get together with the Revolution again you would all be singing that tune as if this conversation never happened so please. Spare the opinion. The only reason you are dissing the Revolution is because you probably feel a little silly actually liking Prince's new music and so your defensive. It's ok. I've been there. Good luck with that. Oh yeah, and BTW: I saw the Musicology Tour a couple times and the music was bland. Zero edge whatsoever. It sounded like cheap synths with a jazz section. So, to each his own I guess. All I know is that when I see videos of the Parade Tour or the Purple Rain Tour I see brilliance and I see innovation and raw musical talent and I see fans going nuts over a man who is going way out on a limb crossing borders and taking chances. It was exciting and ballsy. Just for the record. I'm obsessed with music and music history. So the less informed would be someone defending bad music because if you knew what good music was we wouldn't be having this conversation. Peace out. | |
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I'd actually like prince to do an album the Wendy & Lisa - just the 3 of them
The title "A Revolutionary Retrospective" is something that comes to mind So not a reunion as such, but just a trip back to the studio - think the result would be quite interesting. [Edited 4/7/09 17:04pm] | |
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mschirmer said: L4OATheOriginal said: gee does the revolution get as much praise as prince's work on the undertaker film and music? hmmm who backed him up on that? OH YEAH SONNY T AND MICHAEL B ..who's on the new lotusflow3r album? OH YEAH SONNY T AND MICHAEL B and this album is getting mad raves from his fans and critics. the last album any memeber of the revolution was on? OH YEAH THAT BULLSHIT CALLED PLANET EARTH .. revolution best backing band he's ever had damn that made me laugh so hardDude you're a jack ass and clearly this is hitting a little to close to home!!! GET YOUR INFORMATION STRAIGHT. my in4mation is straight or did u cry so hard when septemer 6, 1986 hit u that it was a wrap!! NPG 4ever!! get over it and deal with the revolution couldn't fuck with the ONA band, the musicology band, the Gold experience band ..bobby z couldn't fuck with either john or michael b! sonny and rhonda run circles around brown mark..the only saving grace of the revolution is fink, eric and atlanta. maybe this is hitting 2 close 2 HOME 4 U! go have ur crying fit now that it's no longer the 80's man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
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thanks Stanley for posting the track listing. it DOES help. and i DO love SOTT.
but based on what i've heard though of the unreleased trax, SOTT seems better. great books still need an editor right. i think SOTT was still quite SPRAWLING, a word used to describe it by many a reviewer. Sounds like Dream Factory may have been more conceptual and experimental but possibly NOT better than SOTT. | |
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I don't believe that it is a case of Prince regrouping the Revolution to create great music. I agree with the original point that these were fantastic albums but it was Prince's mindset to collaborate at the time that was so different. They gave him different ears and allowed them to do so. recent work with Wendy and Lisa is the equivalent of having backing singers with added nostalgia. If the Revolution were back in the mix it would not necessarily lead to collaboration-that would be as I said prince truly saw it as a group | |
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OldFriends4Sale said: TwiliteKid said: Try reading my post. The credits are on the site, not in the CD. What makes you thnik W&L are on tracks on Planet Earth that they aren't credited for? I've seen you make similar incorrect assertions around here without backing up your claims. Care to provide a source this time? This is the discussion your refering to: http://prince.org/msg/7/298696 I've seen you make similar incorrect assertions around here without backing up your claims. I'll patiently await the link to the other incorrect assertions I made around here...
[Edited 4/3/09 18:35pm] You can read that and many statements on their website via www.wendyandlisa.com ( sign up and go to forums) Hint: Lisa was the one who answered the question within a post
OldFriends4Sale said: L & W sang and played on some other songs on Planet Earth they weren't credited 4
As I stated a while back in the thread Wendy and Lisa discussed the the topic on PE. They DID for instrumental ONLY, they DID NOT do any vocal work on the PE album. If anyone KNOWS who did the vocal work on PE Im sure people know here on the org or maybe Prince can answer that for us. (Im ONLY talking about the PE album ONLY.) [Edited 4/14/09 15:08pm] Smurf theme song-seriously how many fucking "La Las" can u fit into a dam song 
Proud Wendy and Lisa Fancy Lesbian asskisser  | |
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