Forgive me for starting a new thread but I could not find this question discussed in the already Huge and lengthy Lotus flower post.

It gets crowded with off topic stuff during release times and I rarely sign on to comment. The Jay Leno Thread that has become a discussion about Paul Mc Cartney and Bowie for example

Moderators, forgive me if This is the same topic...

BUT here is the question...

After reading the various reviews.... will be be seeing another ploy to launch himself in to the Billboard (without really earning it traditionally) by releasing a collection as a package with 3 sides essentially like EMANCIPATION?

I heard somewhere that like the Billboard, Musicology Concert Giveaway, this may have been fixed so no other artist could do it.

Remember each on the Emancipation CD's being at least 60 minutes, perhaps explaining the lengthy guitar grind on "In this Bed I scream" so that it could be considered ONE CD unit' thereby counting a single purchase of the three CD set as 3 separate units sold?

Is this what Prince is trying to do? I wonder this but also question why only Target if that were his motives. Why not the other two large retailers.

So if you buy Lotus Flower3 does Bria get one cd sold at all or does Prince get all three?

Moderators please excuse but I would like to see this discussion and my fellow purpleheads discuss this without all the other topics about how he looks on the cover, bria and her role and stuff.

Thanks for your patience Mods and once again forgive me if I have made an error.

"Who Moderates The Moderators?"

good questions

but more importantly - who looks better on the covers? Prince or Bria?

in my opinion Bria does, because she does not need as much photoshop as Prince

then again he is 3 times her age so.....

Wasn't there a Billboard rule about albums charting that are only available from one source (Target)? This may have been a restriction that was removed some time ago but I seem to recall the topic coming up years ago when Walmart had a few exclusives.

japanrocks said:

Okay, now you are officially my hero. LOL

jtfolden said:

Nah, it will chart on Billboard.

It's 3cds but only being sold in Target, will hurt sales IMO!! Wal-Mart has many more stores than Target.

realm said:

The rule was changed which allowed the 3 million copies that Walmart sold of the Eagles to chart, had they not changed the policy, it would have shook the industry and artists alot more than it did, but the policy change kept Soundscam in the picture.

As for PRINCE, who knows what it will do chart wise, does it really matter? It will debut than drop like something you have never seen before, and then we will all bitch and cry and say "hes not doing things right", even though he made his money on this cd already, whether anyone buys a copy on sunday or none sell

realm said:

I dont thik Prince needs that distribution in mainstream retail anymore. Purple Rain days are long gone. I am sure Target cut a sweet deal for Prince as he was able to use all of his leverage to secure a special marketing arrngement. There is television advertising and it will probaby be prominently displayed on the racks.

The difference between Emancipation and this set is that Emancipation was not priced like 1 CD through it was packaged as a single unit. Lotusflower is the price of a single album and the consumer will get 3 - and 3 pretty goods at that.

I believe there is a requirement that each disc has to be 50 minutes to qualify as individual scanned discs toward chart performance/sales.


At least that was the rule in 1996. I don't know if it's changed or not.

But none of the albums will be over 50 minutes.

realm said:

It's regional really, out here in California, they're many more targets then wal marts.

errant said:

They are fairly short albums, aren't they?!

errant said:

You might be right but I thought the rule was that the combined set has to be over 100 minutes (which would mean this set would count as 3 disks).

lezama said:

that would be 100 minutes for 2 discs, though, right? the retail set is going to have a grand total that's shy of 150 minutes (to count as a 3 disc set, presumably). so it might count for a double.

as i said, i don't know. but i believe that was the rule back in 1996. i'm not sure how they do it now. Billboard has made a lot of ajustments to its accounting system several times in the last decade.

errant said:

Hmmm... Well for the RIAA, it doesn't look like it specifies quantity of disks in multi-disk sets.

http://www.riaa.org/golda...r=criteria

lezama said:

I do remember that there was a difference in the way that Soundscan/Billboard and the RIAA counted them. I don't recall what it was at the moment, but I remember there was kind of a glaring discrepency.

I think the RIAA counted any multi-disc set as mutiples for their purposes. For example, Emancipation only had to ship 333,333 units to count as platinum because each one counted 3 times.

Soundscan/Billboard was slightly more stringent as you'd expect and the total minutes of music (or per disc) had to excede an amount that would justify it being a multi-disc release. (Yes, Crystal Ball we're looking at you with your 3 discs that could have fit on 2....)

I can't seem to find anything online about it at the moment. All of my google searches on the subject turn up completely useless info.

When an album is counted by Nielsen SoundScan, it doesn't matter if there is one CD inside the package, or 10: it still counts as ONE total sale. To avoid confusion, think of the RIAA as an independent sales and inventory auditor with other special functions.

Wal-Mart, the largest company in the world, has always dwarfed rival Target ($406 billion in annual revenues vs. Target's $65 billion).

http://www.time.com/time/...33,00.html

think about it.

realm said:

all that means is that there's 1 target in every medium-sized town in America to Wal-Mart's 2 or 3. if you've got a Target, you know where it is, and the fact that there's only 1 of them in town instead of 3 of them isn't going to keep you from being able to get the disc.

lastdecember said:

Doesn't matter to me. I'm not going to judge the music on the new cds by sales. I believe the new albums are excellent already.

Brofie said:

Doesn't have to do with popularity. Many people just won't go out of way..well...for much of anything these days. If the album was in more stores more people would stumble onto it and just buy it because it is a sweet deal.
Believe it or not much of the population hasn't a clue! They don't know a new album will be released. The world doesn't revolve around Prince for them. And a portion of them are these less than casual fans that may or may not buy the album if they see it in stores. The answer: many won't see it.

Not that it matters but I'm not expecting sales to be through the roof. Then you also have the masses that download.

I don't understand, some fans that will let the album be a disappointment for them if it doesn't sell a ton of copies? Who cares. Obviously Prince doesn't mind his album being in limited stores.

errant said:

It's nothing to get mad about. Wal-Mart has done a better job with exclusives vs. Best Buy, Target..etc. Look the AC/DC "Black Ice" album exclusive at Wal-MArt, it has sold 6 million copies world wide. I would love for P to do a 3 cd exclusive at Wal-Mart at some time. IMO he would easily sell 3 million quick and 4-6 million over a years time and if he bundled 3 cds just imagine the numbers!

What has Best Buy done?? The GNR "Chinese Democracy" exclusive I believe just moved barely 1 million copies. Sad sales with the 14 years of buildup.

Just enjoy the 3 new cds. Who cares about the sales until he makes a deal with Wal-Mart.

I doubt there is a ploy here, though with P, who knows. I think it was all about the launch back into the web. I think he probably regretted closing down the music club as that was an ideal vehicle to get his music out there, esp after NIN, Radiohead and a few others used the internet to say FU to the labels/retailers.

realm said:

who's mad?

and maybe Prince has ethical problems with Wal-Mart. I don't, and I doubt he does, but many people do.

Target came to the table with an offer of what they were willing to give him / do for him, and it was obviously the most appealing.

He's done exclusives with Best Buy before as well. (The Rainbow Children, U Make My Sun Shine, NEWS maybe?).

He seems to like doing business with local companies. Best Buy, Target....

realm said:

It's nothing to get mad about. Wal-Mart has done a better job with exclusives vs. Best Buy, Target..etc. Look the AC/DC "Black Ice" album exclusive at Wal-MArt, it has sold 6 million copies world wide. I would love for P to do a 3 cd exclusive at Wal-Mart at some time. IMO he would easily sell 3 million quick and 4-6 million over a years time and if he bundled 3 cds just imagine the numbers!
[/quote]

The image of this makes me snicker... any of you see that series of how WalMart gets its product on the shelves? Every vendor basically meets them in Bentonville AK and goes into little rooms for a few minutes, sets up and has a few minutes to answer a bevy of questions from a buyer representative...
"so would you change this to get our business?"
"Would you use this type of wrapping if we agreed?"
"Will you also include a batteries with your product... i see here you have none..."

Imagine Prince going into one of these rooms after say, "Old Grannies Thigh Powder" Just left. All alone.. trying to get Walmart to buy his 6 CD exclusive set, "Songs I wrote while standing in line for beer?"

"So, Prince, would you be open to Performing Nothing compares to you with Chris Gaines?"

"If we were to sell your set on our shelves, would you be willing to have a coupon for a DOVE soap special covering your naked body on the front cover?"

"So Prince, We would like to couple your CD with a Special Line of Bratz Dolls called the Vanity 6 Collection...."

Have I hi-hack my own thread?

errant said:

True, It's a lot like when they sell soda for 69 cents at stores and break even. These are come ons, used to just get a certain number of people in stores. They hope that people that purchase the Prince album will also buy a few groceries or other items and they will bank.

Sorry, I do love talk about economics!

realm said:

This happens to be exactly the model that Best Buy uses for selling CD's. In fact, it's the only reason why they sell them at all. And why they are so cheap.

Or were. I was there yesterday and it looks like most of them are around $14.99 now. I don't know if they use CD's as a loss leader anymore or not.

Though "The Rainbow Children" is now $5.99 at Best Buy if anyone wants a really cheap copy as a back-up since when they're gone, this album will probably never be in print again

errant said:

That's cool. Yeah, as far as cds go downloading has really changed the game. Bestbuys selection has really dwindled over the last few years. I have a zune and enjoy but as far as my favorite artists go I still prefer cds and may just stock up on backup copies of the Prince albums that will become OOP.

I just received a Target $5 card off $50 worth of groceries so thats cool. I'm one of those guys that max out the 401k..etc. but every dollar counts. $5.99 for TRC is a steal as it becomes OOP.

since each cd isn't 60mins they don't count as individual units

realm said:

Just to be honest, i hope that everyone realizes that the odds of PRINCE moving a million of this album are SLIM to NONE, this is just based on his own popularity, the fact that Target is last on the exclusive list, due to its Limited locations in major cities, and also Target is where you go to push your HITS collections, not your new album. Best Buy had Prince for the Rainbow Children which was "redline" entertainment, a mutual company of Best Buys and at the time Sam Goody. And that album moved about 200,000 overall. So its not about sales, but if people think he will do Eagles, or ACDC type numbers, than please, get ready for a bubble burst, he will be lucky if he does a GNR type sale. But once again, exclusives are more for the artist and getting Paid, the charts are meaningless, PRINCE deliverd the cds to target and they fed him a check, its a done deal, whether he promotes it, tours it, or just ignores it, its money in his bank

If sales are inconsequential to Prince and he's all about the $, why the 3-night stint on Leno, the new Target promo commericial, the mini-concerts in Los Angeles? Why aren't the CDs free to the general public? He's hawking his goods because, like every artist, he wants to generate sales.